How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

[phil36]

yes, I would agree with that. but I obey BEACAUSE I am saved, not to be saved. that is the key.

Yep, none can obey Christ unless he is saved (regenerated). This is key indeed to understanding where the Hyper grace guys go wrong. not everything they say or believe is wrong..we all love grace and marvel.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with you Jimbone...we should be lifting each other up in the Lord. I think what happens is that people see certain word and those words "trigger" a response out of people.

We need to be allowed to present what we believe with out name calling or bickering..and honestly some just want to argue which is why I am taking on more of a cut and pasting of what I believe from various sources. I believe the Holy Spirit inside of us will teach us individually what we need to grow in Christ.

I'm with you as I was appalled at the way some people attacked others just because they had a different view on a subject.

I try to govern things by asking myself a few questions in regard to truth...1) does it make Jesus bigger? 2) Does it exalt the finished work of Christ for us? 3) does it make us fall deeper in love with our Lord?

If those questions are answered...i'm all for it!

If people don't like what is being said by someone else..we should just say .."this is what I believe and leave it at that.."...leave it in the hands of the Lord. But the reality is that some just want to argue with an intent of malice and I'm sure both sides do it. I mean people get called heretics and false teachers just because others believe differently then what they do.

I agree with you that this type of behavior needs to stop. we need to be able to disagree yet stay in unity in our love and devotion to our Lord....giving respect to each other as we are new creations in Christ. Let's walk as children of the light and exalt our Lord.

Well I can agree with that, who has said that? I haven't seen it claimed in this thread, can you point out the comment or comments where this has been claimed here? Honestly guys I haven't see anyone claim there is more than grace needed for salvation, or that we are saved and can then do anything we want and live in complete sin as we did before, yet that is what this whole thread is arguing. It's plain silly and as brothers and sisters in Christ I honestly think we should be more careful and clear with what we are accusing each other of and proclaiming. Our time could be spent so much better than arguing with each other, by I don't know, lifting each other up and trying to come together to bring glory to His name instead, maybe? Look I'm not trying to act like I know it all, heck I am still very young in Christ (28 months), but man this gets worse than YouTube sometimes and we are all suppose to be Christians, maybe we can ALL try to act like it, myself included of course.

 

[Grandpa]

Did he say he was? What did I miss? He said he wants to obey Christ teachings so you call him out? Well I stand with him, I too want to obey the one that died so I could be saved. Am I "bad" too? I must have missed the comment where he claimed perfection, can you point it out to me?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Originally Posted by eternallife7

Nobody who looks at Christ's teaching and thinks they do not have to follow them anymore like hyper grace teaches has God.

So are you guys doing it?

Are you perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect?

No. You aren't.


It's great to want to obey Christ. But what do you teach people who can't do it themselves? Do you tell them that the Lord wouldn't give you commands that you can't obey? Try harder?


The answer is simple but the legalists and workers miss it because it is veiled to them.

 

[Grandpa]

Christ insists but never lures/baits...He beseeches us to 'obey' My Father as I do',
'if you love Me, keep My Commandments....walk as I have walked among you, and Love as I have Loved you....

these requests of our Saviour cannot be negated...we are obligated-commanded to obey...

What you and other workers and legalists see as commands that you are obligated-commanded to obey...

People under Grace see as gifts given by God.

We just see things differently, that's all.


Hebrews 4:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


How do we do that? How do we enter His Rest?

Galatians 3:2-3

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


If you began in the Spirit, why are you still trying to obey commands by your own will and strength? Don't you know you are perfected by His Power and Strength and not your own?

If you do know these things then why talk of commands and not gifts?

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Some of you poor people seem to be missing the emphasis of the good news. It makes me wonder if you do it purposely or if you just don't know any better.

If you place such a great emphasis on obedience to commandments you are personally obligated to teach how it is accomplished. And I never see anyone who emphasises obedience to commandments teach how its accomplished. Isn't that weird?

If anyone did teach how it was accomplished you would see them in the "Hyper" Grace crowd. Because obedience is a gift. Given by God because of His Love for us.

 

[fredoheaven]

In churches every week, you will hear one of two messages. You will either hear a mixed-grace gospel or you will hear the hyper-grace gospel.

Do you know how to tell the difference?

A mixed-grace gospel combines the unmerited favor of God with the merited wage of human-effort. “You are saved by grace but you maintain your position through right-living,” is an example of a mixed-grace message.

If this is truly what mix- grace teaches, it’s wrong, for we are saved by grace for eternity. Our position in Christ as a son to the Abba, Father never change but our walk with Him may change from time to time, tempted or tried, we may fall or loosen our grip but praise God we have the Advocate that is Christ.

 

[fredoheaven]

“God gives you grace so that you can keep His commands,” is another. These sorts of messages contain an element of grace but ultimately push you to trust in yourself and your own efforts.

If it’s grace, it’s no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. One cannot go in between or set in a fence if salvation is meant. What I believe is the grace that brought my salvation yet as the result of my salvation, I am in liberty to do what is right but not having a license to do what is not right. The grace is meant for our emancipation!

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[fredoheaven]

Any mixed-grace message can be recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks. Carrots are the blessings you get for obedience; sticks are the penalties you pay for disobedience.

The modern mixed-grace message offers the following carrots: If you confess, you’ll be forgiven; if you do right, you’ll be accepted; if you act holy, you’ll be holy.

If this is true to the mixed grace or modern mixed grace teaching, they are simply not true. For who could buy God’s righteousness? I still believe in the simplicity of GRACE, that God’s Redemption At Christ Expense. However, the act of confessing sin, doing right and be ye holy because He is holy are the results or the act of a righteous (saved) one and not a repetitive act in order to be saved. Confession in the Bible as it relates to the salvation is to confess our Saviour and not our sins. We are just confusing somebody out here if we parrot confession of sin to mean salvation. This is not what the Bible says in its entirety.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[fredoheaven]

And what happens if you don’t do these things? What are the sticks of the mixed-grace message? Fail to perform according to prevailing codes of conduct and you’ll lose your forgiveness, you’ll lose your fellowship, and, if worse comes to worse, you may lose your salvation.

None of this sounds like good news to me.

Yet tragically this is the sort of message that millions of people hear every week. They don’t hear about Jesus; they hear about carrots and sticks.

If the mixed grace teaching is to lose your salvation, again, this is not true. The real grace believer will not fail to lose forgiveness, though he may lose for a moment about his fellowship but not eternally lose his relationship.

 

[fredoheaven]

Bite into any mixed-grace message and you will taste a bitter fruit. You will feel the pressure to perform and smell the fear that comes with failure. You’ll make promises to God and then you’ll break them. You’ll resolve to try harder only to fail again and again. You’ll become burned out and bummed out.

Since a mixed-grace message puts the emphasis on you and what you have done, your identity will become defined by your productivity. You will start to think of yourself as God’s servant instead of His beloved son or daughter. Worst of all, you will end up distracted from Jesus and fallen from grace.

Don’t swallow any poison that comes with a spoonful of grace. And don’t subscribe to any message that leads you to trust in yourself and your works instead of Jesus and His. To paraphrase Watchman Nee, “You can try or you can trust and the difference is heaven and hell.”

The real grace believer is not afraid of mixed- grace or even the hyper- grace. “The Grace of God that bringeth salvation appeared to all men” with no hyper or mixed.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

 

[fredoheaven]

And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:6)

You may have heard that God gives us grace in order to do good works, but this is misleading. God does not give you grace so that you can work. He gives you grace because He loves you. Period.

Those who receive from the abundance of His grace do indeed work and often they work harder than anyone else, but that’s neither here nor there.

The issue is not what you’ll do for God but what you’ll let Him do for you. Will you trust Him a little bit or will you trust Him the whole way? Does His grace merely get you in the front door or does it keep you safe to the very end?

As Jesus said, the only work that counts is the “work” of believing in the One He has sent (John 6:29).

This is the chief takeaway of the hyper-grace gospel.

The simplicity of the gospel that saves does not demand mixed or hyper graces as implied. It is understood simply “For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Eph. 2:8-9

God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did he say he was? What did I miss? He said he wants to obey Christ teachings so you call him out? Well I stand with him, I too want to obey the one that died so I could be saved. Am I "bad" too? I must have missed the comment where he claimed perfection, can you point it out to me?

He said no one who says those who do not HAVE to follow the bible has God. When you place the word HAS, have, or required in the equation, you place a condition that God requires. which is perfection..

Plus, No one in who teaches true grace would teach one should not in the power of God and a changed heart follow God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He is a well known trouble maker and false accuser. Here is the best way to deal with him....

False accuser? Dude you just lost it. You people are the ones who falsely accuse. All I am doing is asking a question. I am not the one out saying lies about you. you are the people slandering those of us who teach grace.

If you do not like to be confronted. thats on you.. Go ahead and ignore.. All it proves is you can't stand to be confronted..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

anyone who says or implies that we are saved by anything other grace. goods works are the result of grace, not the cause.

Thanks bro. they do not like it, They hide behind the "why do not teach works" Lie they have bought into. yet it is what they teach.. As everyone keeps trying to show them.

They just do not like me because I scream the loudest against them. because I have personally witnessed what their "gospel" (I use that term lightly, because it is no gospel at all) does to the kingdom of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Interesting. So you would agree that the christian who is obedient to the law of Christ is not a legalist?

That depends.

Your question is to broad, And can concern a few groups of people. Some saved, Some not..

The fact is, No one can be obedient to the law as God requires So technically, Every day of our lives we fall short of Gods glory. (thats why I keep asking people who proclaim it as a gospel if they are perfect)

The gospel is what saves, Not being obedient..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No that's not right. We obey because to do otherwise is to not be saved. It might be our nature to naturally obey, but there is also a healthy amount of fear in the hearts of the godly that works to be saved.

View attachment 142682

No thats wrong.

We obey BECAUSE we are saved, FAITH PRODUCES WORK. not the other way around.

To say otherwise, is to teach works.

Abraham did not sacrifice his son because he wanted to get saved, He did it because he had so great a faith in God, He knew God was able to raise him from the dead. His faith produced the action. Not the other way around.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep, none can obey Christ unless he is saved (regenerated). This is key indeed to understanding where the Hyper grace guys go wrong. not everything they say or believe is wrong..we all love grace and marvel.

so then why do you and others add works to the equation??

How can one love grace and demand works? They are not related, and are apposed to each other.

Rom 11: 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

If I say I believe on Jesus, he has changed me, and I show His love to others by who I am and what I do, how is it interpreted?

1. A similarly saved, cleansed and walking in obedience to Jesus says amen
2. A person looking for deception exaggerates one aspect and then says you have been found out

Now there is nothing that can really be done to solve such an impass. Quoting people who are saying brilliant things but not to the extreme of person quoting them is pointless.

The evil that has come out is condemnation of congregations who are desiring sincerely to be following the Lord.
How it has been demonstrated to me is saying I am lost and a hypocrite. Not because of sin, but because I believe Jesus sanctifies us through obedience.

Jesus says we should judge teachers by the fruit, the words that come out of a teaching or movement.
Asking God to forgive your sin is unbelief. It is wrong to repent, to turn away from sin and commit yourself not to go there again. Looking at Gods law brings condemnation so you should not even think about it.
You get a perfect new pure heart from God when born again, you just have to walk in it.
Your conscience is wrong and it is satan condemning you.

None of these ideas is from Jesus and the Lord. They are simply lies from the father of lies, and being preached by people who preach the world is the blessing of the chosen.

Now if you want to follow anyone and call that teacher from God, make sure the words and ideas are from Jesus.

 

[ladylynn]

okie dokie........

What else can ya say?? But I'll say this., you are far from someone who is not understanding what he believes and what he is "arguing against" and even if people don't agree with you., that accusation would have to be based on a lack of reading your posts. Your position is clear AND you post so many verses and links (people have also gotten annoyed at you for that too) that someone would have to try on purpose to not understand.

I make it a point to follow certain posts by people and yours have always been clear and concise and I do appreciate when someone takes time to fully explain a position. It shows a kind spirit.,not someone who is enjoying a straw man argument. Who has time for that?? If someone is only on these forums to prove everyone wrong., they will find being 'right' is highly over rated.

 

[PeterJens]

Jigsaw theology

Jesus does not take us from this life when we come to faith so that we might show His love and grace to others through our lives, showing the reality of the Kingdom of heaven brought to earth.

Now the lost try very hard to imitate this reality in their lives and fail. They blame the teaching, the groups they belong to, anything that does not come to the reality they have not yet truly met Jesus. They do need to stop trying and begin being real.

Now these people have learnt a new way, give up it is ok your are still saved. Stop looking at your lives and trying so hard, just shut out any sign of a living heart, and live only the positive. Suddenly life is so much easier, that is the real gospel.

So now those who preach what Jesus preached are the evil guilty party, preaching too high a standard and bringing condemnation on the poor innocent believers. These legalists should be condemned.

But this cycle will go on forever, because until you are empowered to walk in righteousness, it will always be impossible.
Repent and believe on Jesus and He will lift you up. Your sin is still on you, and you have not brought it to the foot of the cross, but want to deny your sin that your conscience condemns you about. Until you know what weeping and being sorrowful about the pain you have caused, you can never truly walk in His freedom. Your very heart convicts you of this reality yet you walk in rebellion and denial.

To know Jesus is to break, to truly give up, to admit defeat, to know we are to the core of our being unworthy lost sinners.

Never to the day we die does this reality change. It is only His love and mercy that lifts us up to works of righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader,

If I say I believe on Jesus, he has changed me,

If you say this, then say all this can be lost.. Then you have major issues.

How can you claim Jesus changed you. But then you may fail and lose all God gave you. That is taking credit away from God, and giving credit for yourself nd sayinng God can not finish what he started.

Well my God says otherwise.

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

So it is all great that you say Jesus changed you, and because of it you want to do good. But to then turn around and say Jesus may fail in his work, and all can be lost. Well when you do that, You lie, Because it was not jesus who changed you, it was YOU WHO CHANGED YOU.. (you can fail. God will not)