How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Let me put it this way: I'm a Saint who plans to "endure to the end" and be saved (Matthew 24:12-13 KJV), unlike the Saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV who allow iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and wind up lost.

Would you like to add anything concerning the OP topic instead of concerning yourself with things that are none of your business?
If it wasn’t the business of Christians to be concerned with the salvation of others, what need would there be to share the Gospel? It is most definitely our business.

As for why I asked if you’re saved, your answer would be revealing to your understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you make the mistake of “trampling underfoot the Son of God” by ignoring His work ( the shedding of His blood for your sins) and replacing it with anything that is based in merit?

Salvation is a gift and not a debt; the saved work but they do not work for their salvation.

Don’t put the cart before the horse. The righteous endure. The righteous overcome and who is it that overcomes but they that believe in the Son of God? In some ways you can interpret your salvation model as one’s capacity to love. Where as the Gospel’s salvation model is God’s love for mankind; God sending His Son not to condemn the world but save it through His sacrifice and resurrection.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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and thus lies your big theological error-
you spelled "truth" wrong.
you see God as a employer who hires ( saves) you, and as long as you do your job ( good works)
Nah, He saves us as long as we are in a loving, surrendered relationship with Him - good works are merely the evidence of that relationship.
, don't lay out of work, be late, or go over on your break and lunchtime ( don't sin), then you always have a job but if you mess up enough, get lazy and slack, then the employer ( God ) will fire you ( take away your salvation and burn you forever in the lake of fire).
You mean, abide in the Vine continually in that loving relationship and enjoy the privilege of knowing and serving the One with most magnificent character and heart there is, and don't turn our back on Him and go shack up with the devil, while calling ourselves "faithful", "obedient", "more than conquerors", etc. -- which idea to which the OSAS crowd is opposed, seeing they want God and Satan to both have JOINT CUSTODY of us (BTW, no such thing as "eternal torment").
there is so much wrong with that view of God and salvation , and so much human based thinking, i am not qualified to try to correct it.... you need a major renewing of your mind..
I assure you, what is messed up is people demanding God tolerate their habitual unfaithfulness, while standing ready to hand their spouse divorce papers for one single instance of infidelity.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Much of this is very off-topic. Can we just stick to the Bible?
If you are a man of the Word, show yourself approved; respond to the Scriptures I have presented by agreeing or conceding. If you concede, then demonstrate the correct context that I am somehow missing with these OT references.
I assumed the Bible would be sufficient common ground for us.
If you cannot do that, perhaps I will seek to establish common ground with you another way before I consider going off on these tangents you've brought up.

What is your understanding of the purpose of this conversation (Matthew 24-The Olivet discourse)? A brief summary would be great.
I already responded to what you said about Matthew 24. The fact that it deals with the end times "time of trouble" does nothing to overthrow what I've presented here in this thread. Jesus unveils to us the state of affairs that will prevail just before He returns, and included in that is His contrast between the "many" Saints who allow the practice of iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, and the Saints who will "endure to the end" and be "saved".

So far, all you've done is attempt to deflect from my spiritual proposition with speculation that I might be taking things out of context, searching to confirm a preconceive notion, or torturing a verse to establish an unBiblical conclusion, all without one shred of evidence.

What you need to do is explain why the "many" are not Saints without appealing to the false eschatology of Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism, because 2 Peter 3:10 KJV is clear that when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", the Earth is not going to go on for another 7 minutes, let alone 7 more years, right or wrong?
 
Aug 3, 2019
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If it wasn’t the business of Christians to be concerned with the salvation of others, what need would there be to share the Gospel? It is most definitely our business.

As for why I asked if you’re saved, your answer would be revealing to your understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you make the mistake of “trampling underfoot the Son of God” by ignoring His work ( the shedding of His blood for your sins) and replacing it with anything that is based in merit?

Salvation is a gift and not a debt; the saved work but they do not work for their salvation.

Don’t put the cart before the horse. The righteous endure. The righteous overcome and who is it that overcomes but they that believe in the Son of God? In some ways you can interpret your salvation model as one’s capacity to love. Where as the Gospel’s salvation model is God’s love for mankind; God sending His Son not to condemn the world but save it through His sacrifice and resurrection.
Let's get something straight, pal. You did not ask that question in sincerity, but provocatively, because a sincere Christian would have done so DISCREETLY, NOT PUBLICLY.

So, let's not clothe ourselves with the dignity of the church, while circulating amongst the brethren with ulterior motives...that's how all the trouble got started in heaven, did it not?
 
Dec 30, 2020
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No it isn't. To advocate OSAS is to deny our God-given free will choice to surrender to God and then remain surrendered or withdraw it.

Good gravy, do Christians not realize the marriage institution was established to teach the human family something about the kind of intimate relationship God desires to have with us? Only two things came out of Eden: marriage and the Sabbath, and the secular world is attacking the one while the church is attacking the other.

Show me the marriage where the one loses free will to withdraw their affections from the other and I'll run circles around any of you arguing for OSAS in the face of those "deluded conditionalists".[/QUOTE
No it isn't. To advocate OSAS is to deny our God-given free will choice to surrender to God and then remain surrendered or withdraw it.

Good gravy, do Christians not realize the marriage institution was established to teach the human family something about the kind of intimate relationship God desires to have with us? Only two things came out of Eden: marriage and the Sabbath, and the secular world is attacking the one while the church is attacking the other.

Show me the marriage where the one loses free will to withdraw their affections from the other and I'll run circles around any of you arguing for OSAS in the face of those "deluded conditionalists".
Wow! My argument went way past your head.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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Phoneman 777,

As a brother who loves you, I urge you to take a break from being argumentative and take a careful consideration of my postings.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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Anacortes, WA
all you've done is attempt to deflect from my spiritual proposition with speculation that I might be taking things out of context...all without one shred of evidence.
Perhaps you missed the evidence I presented, which points out the period of time Jesus was talking about and His reminder of the prophesied salvation from those terrible events: (everything highlighted green is a direct reference to the tribulation(70th week of Daniel).
“Near is the great day of the LORD, Near and coming very quickly; Listen, the day of the LORD! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A day of wrath is that day, A day of trouble and distress, A day of destruction and desolation...I will bring distress on men...Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD’S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.” (Zephaniah 1:14–18)

“Say to those with anxious heart, “Take courage, fear not. Behold, your God will come with vengeance; The recompense of God will come, But He will save you.”” (Isaiah 35:4)

“‘Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s distress,
But he will be saved from it.” (Jeremiah 30:7)
Again...he (Jacob= The remnant of Israel) will be saved from it ("it" = the time of distress=the day of vengeance=when Jerusalem undergoes desolations).
Matthew 24:15 is explicit that what Daniel wrote about will happen (a very specific future event).
Do you even know what the Abomination of Desolation is going to be?
What you need to do is explain why the "many" are not Saints without appealing to the false eschatology of Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism, because 2 Peter 3:10 KJV is clear that when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", the Earth is not going to go on for another 7 minutes, let alone 7 more years, right or wrong?
1. This is a foolish request. It's like telling a man, who claims to be the strongest man, to prove himself...but without using his strength.
2. The day of the Lord comes "like a thief in the night" because everyone whom it comes upon will be unsuspecting. In that passage, Peter calls them "mockers" (2 Pet 3:3). Jude clarifies that these mockers are not born again (Jude 18-19). The OT prophets referred to them as "the wicked" (Ps 1:5; Job 22:30). John describes them as those "whose names were never written in the book of life" (Rev 13:8, 17:8). The day of the Lord will come suddenly upon the ungodly.
3. wrong...because Peter is not giving a detailed description of the events of the Day of the Lord. He is emphasizing one aspect of it to make a point related to his earlier comment of how he destroyed the earth by water...but this time it will be by fire. There are hundreds of passages throughout the Bible that mention events and where they will take place during the Day of the Lord. These events are summarized in Revelation chapters 6-19, ending with the 2nd coming of Jesus. In short, the Day of the Lord spans from the beginning of the Tribulation (probably triggered by the invasion of Gog [Ezk 38-39]) to the end of the Millennium.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You believe in showing faith without works, which is dead faith: you believe faith is demonstrated by boldly sinning and then obnoxiously insisting God's grace will cover it...which faith is in vain, just like that OSAS woman my dad once spoke with not long after the 1997 Halle-Bopp comet event:
I believe non of the above, you sir are a liar, you sir are in sin, you sir are unrepentant, and as such, I must wipe the dust off my feet and turn you over to God,
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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Where in the world did you get that idea? It's you OSAS folks that complain God's Ten Commandments are too grievous, which is what the old man of sin would say, not the new man in Christ Jesus...

Y'know why a bridegroom can stand at the altar anxious to publicly vow marital fidelity to his bride while a single, promiscuous man watching the whole affair recoils in horror at such an idea as "too grievous" a limitation?

Love.​

Love for God is shown in keeping His commandments by those who find them anything but grievous, while those who make 10,000 excuses for why "we can't keep the Ten Commandments" demonstrate their hatred for the idea of faithfulness to only God no less than the man who can't wait to seduce one of the bridesmaids after the ceremony.
You talk a load of rubbish do you know that?

It is Peter who describes the law as a yoke which neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear, and it is Moses which considered fidelity in marriage so grievous that he allowed them to write a bill of divorce.

What we say about the law is that it is good and spiritual but because we are weak and fleshly we have been proved incapable of keeping it. It shows us what sinners we are but it is incapable of either forgiving us or amending our wayward hearts.

The law cannot save us. It cannot change our hearts.

What God does with the new birth is give us a new heart, a new inner life, even the life of Christ Himself. Something you know nothing about.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
100
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ogom.co
If it wasn’t the business of Christians to be concerned with the salvation of others, what need would there be to share the Gospel? It is most definitely our business.

As for why I asked if you’re saved, your answer would be revealing to your understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you make the mistake of “trampling underfoot the Son of God” by ignoring His work ( the shedding of His blood for your sins) and replacing it with anything that is based in merit?

Salvation is a gift and not a debt; the saved work but they do not work for their salvation.

Don’t put the cart before the horse. The righteous endure. The righteous overcome and who is it that overcomes but they that believe in the Son of God? In some ways you can interpret your salvation model as one’s capacity to love. Where as the Gospel’s salvation model is God’s love for mankind; God sending His Son not to condemn the world but save it through His sacrifice and resurrection.
Let's get something straight, pal. You did not ask that question in sincerity, but provocatively, because a sincere Christian would have done so DISCREETLY, NOT PUBLICLY.

So, let's not clothe ourselves with the dignity of the church, while circulating amongst the brethren with ulterior motives...that's how all the trouble got started in heaven, did it not?

Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.
Philippians 2:12


13. Ephesians 6:10 “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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No, your post was a kind gesture toward both sides of the issue, and I appreciate the "peacemaker" aspect of that.

However, one inspired writer wrote, "Jesus never purchased peace through compromise." We must always stand against error, and OSAS is not Biblical ;)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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No, your post was a kind gesture toward both sides of the issue, and I appreciate the "peacemaker" aspect of that.

However, one inspired writer wrote, "Jesus never purchased peace through compromise." We must always stand against error, and OSAS is not Biblical ;)
just as unbiblical as works salvation, the exact thing you push.

once saved always saved is bunk. having to do good works to maintain salvation is bunk.

so, you are as wrong as they are.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
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Phoneman 777,

As a brother who loves you, I urge you to take a break from being argumentative and take a careful consideration of my postings.
Well said. It's sadly telling that the originator of a thread on AGAPE fails miserably in demonstrating it. ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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No, your post was a kind gesture toward both sides of the issue, and I appreciate the "peacemaker" aspect of that.

However, one inspired writer wrote, "Jesus never purchased peace through compromise." We must always stand against error, and OSAS is not Biblical ;)
why are you so furious and hateful towards the belief that God is faithful to keep those who put their trust in Him?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,776
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Y'know why a bridegroom can stand at the altar anxious to publicly vow marital fidelity to his bride while a single, promiscuous man watching the whole affair recoils in horror at such an idea as "too grievous" a limitation?
our Good Husband gave His life to save His adulterous, wicked, sinful bride
if God does not forgive sinners and remain faithful to them even when they are unfaithful to Him, then there is no such thing as salvation.

which is why people who do not believe in His faithfulness preach 'temporary provisional life' instead of the eternal life Christ promises, why they preach 'eternal insecurity' and law, rather than the riches of His grace and mercy, and why they preach a 'non-salvation' that has everything to do themselves rather than actual salvation that has everything to do with God.

this is why JW's stand in your driveway and attack the goodness of God. they believe it is how they are saved -- they think they are earning their way into glory by the abundance of their traffic, and they will be damned if they don't spend their weekends preaching lies door-to-door.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It's you OSAS folks that complain God's Ten Commandments are too grievous
proclaiming to you that salvation is not by works, not by will, desire or effort of man but by the mercy & grace of God through faith, is not tantamount to 'complaining that God's commandments are too grievous'

believe what is written: we are not under the law
if you do not believe this, what makes you think you're a Christian?
because you think Christ died for nothing?


shall i go around telling people you are complaining that salvation is unbelievable?
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
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ogom.co
why are you so.... towards the belief that God is faithful to keep those who put their trust in Him?

17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?

18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design.


7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, a and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,776
13,535
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Let me put it this way: I'm a Saint who plans to "endure to the end" and be saved (Matthew 24:12-13 KJV), unlike the Saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV who allow iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and wind up lost.

Would you like to add anything concerning the OP topic instead of concerning yourself with things that are none of your business?
IOW no, you're not saved, but you hope one day through your self-imposed behavioral modifications, you will be found worthy to be saved? and you think of yourself as having sufficient willpower to reach it?

salvation is our business. it's kinda what Christianity is about. . . ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,776
13,535
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17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?

18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design.


7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, a and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
if the foot despises the eye, the man is unsteady and steps into a pit ;)