Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

Here is your post about the greek word which means to convict, convince, prove ..etc.

ἐλέγχει - elegchei - Present Indicative Active - to convict, to prove, to convince WITH PROOF

Woe! Not so much! In fact, we need to repent in order to come to God. And that means being convicted or our sins. Sin is not a pretty thing, that we just say "Yep, now I am saved." No! Sin means we have to really look at our lives, and see what God wants us to turn from. In other words, when we are justified by faith, we have also gone through the difficult process of hearing God and recognizing the evil that has been in our hearts. So yes, conviction should ALWAYS be hard. But joy comes in the morning. Justification is the first stage of salvation.

Transformation is the SECOND stage of salvation. God does not just instantly transform us the moment we are saved. Instead, the Holy Spirit works on us, slowly, changing us for his glory. Transformation is found in two verses in the Bible - 2 Cor. 3:18 and Romans 12:2. In both cases, the word μεταμορφοῦσθε or metamorphousthe, is in the passive tense, meaning it is something God does to us.

The final stage is of course, glorification, which will happen on the final day when we see Christ face to face!

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a]we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

I fear I am hearing a bit of another gospel here! The Holy Spirit does not "convince" us we are righteous. In fact, he convicts us of sin! You have totally left sin out of the equation, and that is simply not the gospel.

I want to add someone said something about sin not being what Jesus came to save us from. That is just so unbiblical, it is beyond comprehension!

Even the name of Jesus - which is Joshua or Yeshua means "salvation or deliverance" in the Hebrew.

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21.

This is the gospel! It is how Jesus came and died in our place on the cross, for our sins. The first sacrifice was in Genesis 4, by Abel. Offerings and sacrifices continued down through the Bible until Christ became the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

"11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:11-1

Any other gospel, especially one which fails to acknowledge sin as the reason Jesus came to die on the cross is truly "another gospel."

 

[Grace777x70]

You are welcome! God's grace is unfathomable!

Checked out this site and it is good. Will put it on bookmarks. Thanks for the link!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is impossible for the new creation in Christ to hate his brother. John IMO is just saying that one who hates his brother is not in the Light but is still in darkness. We are either in darkness or Light. People who actually do hate others are not new creations in Christ is all that John is saying here. Our new man is created in righteousness and true holiness and it is impossible for that inner man to sin. 1 John 3:9 says that it is impossible for the one who is born of God to sin.

The true Christian does not and cannot "hate" another person as it is sin.

It is all in seeing the new creation in Christ. Most confusion about the Christian life stems from not "seeing" the new creation in Christ.

No, that's not what 1 John 3:9 says. No believer can continue in sin because the indwelling holy spirit will lead such a person to repentance. Believers can and do sin.

​My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1​

 

[crossnote]

I agree that is what cults do, in fact all truth comes this way. If I was an atheist and did not believe in creation by God you would be telling me to believe what God has to say about creation. I would have to unlearn what I believed in order to believe the truth of creation. Many times we have to unlearn things to choose what is true. it's called "repent" - change your mind which is the actual meaning in the original greek language as we talked about before.

Jesus' teachings was a cult to the Pharisees which was the religious world that our Lord was in when He came. Search the scriptures.

jesus teachings was not new to the Scriptures...HG teaching is.

 

[Angela53510]

I agree with all that you said. I did not put in the scripture reference because I thought it is taught everywhere in Christian circles. I should have put the reference in.

What happens IMO is that we get "hammered" with statements like the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin. If a statement is said enough times it's like it has to be true because everyone says it is. This statement by itself is not complete or entirely accurate as the scripture actually says that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin because they do not believe in Jesus. We are not of the world when we are believers. There is no place in the New testament where it says that the Holy Spirit "convicts" the believer of sin. He convicts/convinces the believer of righteousness. We need to let the scriptures say what they are saying.

Never take someone else's medicine!

Whether we use the term convict, convinces, or proves is all great with me. I love them all!

The Holy Spirit is not hoping that us believers turn from sins. He really wants us to turn to God! Sin has been taken care of in Christ. Why are we Christians so sin-conscious when we should be Christ-conscious! The Blood of our Lord Jesus speaks of better things! Hebrews 10:2 says "...having once been cleansed would no longer have had consciousness of sins." it is saying here in Hebrews that if the old system worked in regard to taking away sins then they would have a cleansed conscious.

In 2 peter 1:9 says that "For he who lacks these qualities ( as outlined in verses 5-7 ) is blind and short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins."

The Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us and shows us who we really are in Christ. 2 Corth 3:18 shows how the Spirit transforms us - as we look at Jesus we are changed into His image by the SPIRIT.

So now I get why this thread is called "hyper grace." It's because someone let in a bunch of hypergrace people, who are trying to convince us that all that matters is pretending you are in God's grace, not actually being there! This thread has been quite a education reading the Scriptures that are torn out of context, people quoting things in the Greek, when they have absolutely no training or knowledge of Greek, let alone Hebrew. Oh yes, I did see someone saying they preferred the New Testament, when the very foundation of our Christian faith comes from the Hebrew and the Jews! (NO, the NT was NOT written in Aramaic. There are no extant copies of the NT in Greek!)


Let's look a bit more at Hebrews 10, in context, not one verse ripped out of context.

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV

It seems to be that the author of Hebrews is saying that people who HAVE the knowledge of the truth, can continue to go on sinning! So does the Holy Spirit convict these people? Well, I wouldl have to agree He doesn't - the sinner is fearful of judgement, consumed in the same fire as the adversary, and is punished. Hmm! So I guess as Christians, the work of God in our hearts and lives must be on-going. We are sanctified not the moment we are saved, but throughout our entire life, till we see Jesus face to face.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

Woe! Another alas and alas! I just googled "convict believers of sin" and got two pages of unknown persons expounding on this opinion of yours, Grace777x70. However, looking at John 16:8 with a little context, shows that in fact, that the world is convicted of sin, righteousness and judgement. Hmm! And all my searches fail to pull up a Scripture that says God convicts the believer of righteousness. Please post it in context, for me!

"And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;" John 16:8-10

Then finally, are we righteous, or are we righteous as we walk with Christ and are in Christ?

"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Romans 3:21-22

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor 5:21.

My thought is that rather than listen to all those thousands of sermons by questionable people Grace777x70, is you need to pick up your Bible and read that a thousand times. And please learn Greek, if you are constantly going to post on it, when you obviously do not have the slightest idea about reading and interpreting Greek, ok?

 

[Angela53510]

Here is your post about the greek word which means to convict, convince, prove ..etc.

ἐλέγχει - elegchei - Present Indicative Active - to convict, to prove, to convince WITH PROOF

Did you fail to read "convince with proof" in the LEGAL sense. In other words, not some nice, happy feelings, as opposed to the terrible harshness of people telling unbelievers to repent of their sins, which means thinking about them. But in the legal sense of convincing a judge or jury that they are sinners, and need to turn from their sins.

Not a nice day of persuading or trying to convince people but actually PROVING to them that they are sinners.

And once again your lack of understanding of translational issues is showing. The first definitions in a lexicon are the ones most often used in Scripture esp. in the two proof texts we have been discussing. The third one is obscure. But I felt it only honest to include that it was a weak third option.

 

[Grace777x70]

Believers can and do sin in the flesh as outlined in Romans 7:17-23 but it is the power of sin that is still in our flesh. God quarantined sin in the flesh. We have this treasure ( Christ within us ) in this earthen vessel so that the excellency of the power of God may be of Him and not us. 2 Corth. 4:7

1 John 3:9 says this:

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The definition of the greek word for commit here is below:


[FONT="Galatia Sil" !important][SIZE=5]ποιέω[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT="Gentium" !important][I]poieō[/I][/FONT] verb To make, do, create, produce, work, accomplish, perform, act.
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Pi-Rho.

I'm sorry HeRoseFromTheDead but the verb here to commit is in the present tense so it means something done now. For example: I am killing the man. This is present tense. It does not mean I am continuously killing the man.

We have said to ourselves that it means to continue to sin because there is no way to account for the passage that says outright that the one born of God cannot sin and it is impossible for them to sin.

The answer to this dilemma is in understanding the new creation in Christ and it what the circumcision of the flesh and heart means. It is 2 sides of the same coin. It is also called the circumcision of Christ.

God in a mystery cut away the flesh from the inner man which is why we have a new heart. We have our inner man sealed by the Holy Spirit within us. We are born of the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. This is why John was able to say in

[B]1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] We know that [B]no one who is born of God sins;[/B] but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

This is talking about the new inner man of the heart - the new creation in Christ. Behold ( look ) all things are new now! 2 corth 5:17

I tell you brethren - great is the salvation of our Lord! We haven't even begun to understand what God has done for us in Christ!


[QUOTE="HeRoseFromTheDead, post: 2384775"]No, that's not what 1 John 3:9 says. No believer can continue in sin because the indwelling holy spirit will lead such a person to repentance. Believers can and do sin.

​My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1​

[/QUOTE]

 

[Grace777x70]

Now that is a true statement where you said His teachings were not new to the scriptures! Jesus' teachings was new however to the religious people of His day! It is the same for today as well in religious circles. The number one enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ is not sin - sin has been taken care of by Him - it's the Christian religion. It was the Jewish religion in His time that was against Him and it is to this very day!

jesus teachings was not new to the Scriptures...HG teaching is.

 

[Angela53510]

I'm not sure where hyper-grace came from other then it is blblical.

Romans 5:20 (KJV)
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

The word in the greek for "much more abound" is huperperisseuō which is where we get our English word HYPER ( huper part of the word in greek )

It is truly hyper-grace that Christ bought for us with His own Blood. People that say hyper-grace in a derogatory way are not using wisdom.

Actually, not so much. While "hyper" means "above or more", the word grace is not included in the compound prepositional verb hypereperissiusen or ὑπερεπερίσσευσεν, which is the aorist, indicative active in tense.

The word "grace" is a separate and distinct word, charis or χάρις. There is NO such word in the Bible as ὑπερχάρις, hyper grace, this is a recent invention of both the teachers and detractors of this heresy. (Sorry, it just stinks too much too be theologically and biblicallty correct!)

"νόμος δὲ παρεισῆλθεν ἵνα πλεονάσῃ τὸ παράπτωμα· οὗ δὲ ἐπλεόνασεν ἡ ἁμαρτία, ὑπερεπερίσσευσεν ἡ χάρις," Romans 5:21 Greek

You certainly like to twist scriptures and the Greek to prove your point, don't you, Grace777x70?? Like I said before it behooves you to actually read the Bible, and perhaps study Greek, so that you won't be making all these mistakes, which is what you get by listenin to sermons from people with no language or theological training, to say nothing of these random internet sites.

 

[crossnote]

Now that is a true statement where you said His teachings were not new to the scriptures! Jesus' teachings was new however to the religious people of His day! It is the same for today as well in religious circles. The number one enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ is not sin - sin has been taken care of by Him - it's the Christian religion. It was the Jewish religion in His time that was against Him and it is to this very day!

Jesus stuck with the Scriptures, HG has it's own peculiar twist.

 

[Grace777x70]

I loved the to convince with proof part! The Holy Spirit testifies to my spirit about the resurrection of our Lord and He does it with convincing proof/or conviction if you want to use that word. He speaks of the righteousness that is ours now because of what Christ did for us!

I agree that the Holy Spirit convicts/proves/convinces the world that they are sinners just like Jesus said!

Again...no where in the New Testament does it say the Holy Spirit convicts/proves/convinces the believer of sin. Maybe I am missing something? Show the scripture!

I know we have been taught in church the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin but again it's the world He convicts of the sin of not believing in Jesus. It's plain as day in John 16:8-11. it is not the believer He convicts of sin no matter how many times we hear someone say that in church or in any place for that matter.

I believe you may be confusing the meaning of the word "convict" with our religiously taught understanding of the word. It seems you think it means to have sorrow or some other feeling? I could be mis-reading what you are meaning too but at any rate the Holy Spirit still does not convict the believer of sin. It's just not there no matter what we were taught. The scripture is clear.

Did you fail to read "convince with proof" in the LEGAL sense. In other words, not some nice, happy feelings, as opposed to the terrible harshness of people telling unbelievers to repent of their sins, which means thinking about them. But in the legal sense of convincing a judge or jury that they are sinners, and need to turn from their sins.

Not a nice day of persuading or trying to convince people but actually PROVING to them that they are sinners.

And once again your lack of understanding of translational issues is showing. The first definitions in a lexicon are the ones most often used in Scripture esp. in the two proof texts we have been discussing. The third one is obscure. But I felt it only honest to include that it was a weak third option.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is a beautiful scripture about the grace of God shown in the finish work of our Lord Jesus! I love it!

It helps to read scripture in context. The author was writing to the Hebrews about the temple sacrifices and if they continue to refuse the Holy Spirit's "conviction" about the sacrifice of Jesus and His Blood being the only sacrifice for sins - there remains no more sacrifice for sins for them They have the knowledge of Jesus being the way but refuse it by refusing what John 16:8-9 says about the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin because they do not believe in Jesus.

If you take this scripture for the face value of it without looking at the scriptures around it - then we are in very big trouble! We all sin willfully. So that means there is no sacrifice for our sins then because all of us have willfully sinned after coming to Christ. That is just plain stupid! Religion is so foolish!

Anyone can look up the greek/Hebrew words to see how they were used in New Testament times. It's not rocket science! God is looking out for us and giving us the ability to look at the scriptures in the original language. I encourage everyone to use it! It's a blessing from our Lord for us. Let's be like the Bereans and search the scriptures to see what is being told to us.

The Lord bless you! Grow in the grace of our Lord!

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,[/COLOR]27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree that there is no greek word that is ὑπερχάρις. I said they get the hyper grace term from "much more abounds " Where sin abounds - grace much more abounds. this is where the "hyper" part comes in. We as believers should be celebrating the great grace of God shown in Christ for us!

I do read my bible constantly and have studied greek as well. Don't you love it when our Lord said "It is finished" I love the perfect tense used in the middle, passive mood here! It's truly a finished work He has done for us! He is awesome!!!

You can berate me all you want but I will just love on you! I know you mean well. It's ok!

Actually, not so much. While "hyper" means "above or more", the word grace is not included in the compound prepositional verb hypereperissiusen or ὑπερεπερίσσευσεν, which is the aorist, indicative active in tense.

The word "grace" is a separate and distinct word, charis or χάρις. There is NO such word in the Bible as ὑπερχάρις, hyper grace, this is a recent invention of both the teachers and detractors of this heresy. (Sorry, it just stinks too much too be theologically and biblicallty correct!)

"νόμος δὲ παρεισῆλθεν ἵνα πλεονάσῃ τὸ παράπτωμα· οὗ δὲ ἐπλεόνασεν ἡ ἁμαρτία, ὑπερεπερίσσευσεν ἡ χάρις," Romans 5:21 Greek

You certainly like to twist scriptures and the Greek to prove your point, don't you, Grace777x70?? Like I said before it behooves you to actually read the Bible, and perhaps study Greek, so that you won't be making all these mistakes, which is what you get by listenin to sermons from people with no language or theological training, to say nothing of these random internet sites.

 

[crossnote]

Here is a long but helpful read for any interested in exposing this movement...

Modern Grace Message: Revolution or Rebellion?

For example footnote#2 gives this revealing tidbit... (names that have been bantered about CC as of late.)

2.Prominent figures associated with the movement we are considering include Steve McVey, Rob Rufus, Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, Andrew Wommack, John Crowder, Andre van der Merwe, Tullian Tchividjian, Andre Rabe, Andrew Farley, and Clark Whitten. ↩

 

[crossnote]

Here is a long but helpful read for any interested in exposing this movement...

Modern Grace Message: Revolution or Rebellion?

For example footnote#2 gives this revealing tidbit... (names that have been bantered about CC as of late.)

2.Prominent figures associated with the movement we are considering include Steve McVey, Rob Rufus, Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, Andrew Wommack, John Crowder, Andre van der Merwe, Tullian Tchividjian, Andre Rabe, Andrew Farley, and Clark Whitten. ↩

Here is another tidbit from the above link

But I have this against you…” – Revelation 2:4

“But I have this against you…” – Revelation 2:20
​

“Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.” – Revelation 3:19
​

These verses do not fit into the Antinomian system that claims God is not mindfulof any current misconduct on our part or that though in His omniscience the Lord knows all things He is indifferent toward our bad conduct in all but how it might rob us of some blessing. God is still mindful of all sin and hates sin for its evil nature even when it is found in those He loves. John Flavel comments as follows on God’s hatred of sin in the lives of the saved:

God’s antipathy to sin can never be taken away by the satisfaction of Christ, though his hatred to the persons of the redeemed be; for the hatred of sin is founded in the unchangeable nature of God: and he can as soon cease to be holy as cease to hate sin, Hab. 1.13. Nor was Christ’s death ever designed to this end; though Christ hath satisfied for the sin of believers, God still hates sin in believers. His hatred to their sins, and love to their persons are not inconsistent. [Emphases mine] [SUP]49[/SUP]
​

There frequently seems to be a kind of schizophrenic disconnect between the heart and mind in many Antinomians who have not emotionally followed their doctrinal system to its logical ends. Such people may occasionally display repugnance over some sin committed by a Christian, but their false, theological system eventually forces them to reaffirm their lawless mantras, insisting that the believer’s sin was already made nothing before it was done, that the person should not feel bad for or confess anything, and that the bad behavior (bad fruit) is no means by which to evaluate whether or not the person is a genuine Christian (good tree) or one whose profession of belief is not born from an unconverted heart (bad tree).
You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ – Matthew 7:16-23

 

[Grace777x70]

These men listed are all wonderful men of God that speak of the great salvation and love that Jesus bought for us with His Blood. They lift up the name of Jesus when they tell of His wonderous works on our behalf! Jesus is always exalted in the true gospel of grace! It's all about Him and not us!

I read this persons take on the gospel of grace and again I have to say that I have listened to at least 1,000 sermons on grace over the years and I have never heard one say that we could go out and sin because of the grace of God. In fact they say the very opposite of what this man reports.

These men are in good company as they are with Paul about the preaching of the gospel of Christ!

One of the theologians he quotes about how cults work in the article - Martyn Lloyd-Jones himself believes in the gospel of God as taught by these men and he says this about the gospel of grace. Paul was "accused" of being antinomianism and so will every other true teacher of the gospel of grace.

Amen! Brothers and sisters - we truly have a wonderful salvation that our Lord Jesus bought for us with His Blood! He is awesome!!! The Lord has done great things for us and holy is His Name!

Here is a long but helpful read for any interested in exposing this movement...

Modern Grace Message: Revolution or Rebellion?

For example footnote#2 gives this revealing tidbit... (names that have been bantered about CC as of late.)

2.Prominent figures associated with the movement we are considering include Steve McVey, Rob Rufus, Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, Andrew Wommack, John Crowder, Andre van der Merwe, Tullian Tchividjian, Andre Rabe, Andrew Farley, and Clark Whitten. ↩

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

As you haven't specifically stated the doctrine you are referring to, I imagine it must be the doctrine Jesus died for all your sins past, present and future.
Is there clear biblical support of such a belief?.

Sin is the transgression of the law. 1john 3:4

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in Gods sight by observing the law, rather through the law bw become conscious of sin rom3:20

If you are not declared righteous in Gods sight by observing the law, you are not righteous in Gods sight by not committing sin, it means the same thing. The only way this can be true is if Jesus died for all your sin, past, present and future

Interesting thought progression. However, the problem with the doctrine that our sins past present and future are forgiven fails to address clear scriptures stating that our past sins are forgiven not our future sins. Christ's sacrifice for our sins cleanses our sins away making us a new creature. At that point His blood still has the power to keep us from sin and the power of future sin. This is why in the NT, the Church is exhorted many times to repent for sin committed. Notice that the context is the Church having to repent. Repentance as we all know is not a one time deal. We continue to repent and the Lord Jesus Christ, our sole Mediator and Advocate, is good to forgive us!

Romans 3:21-26 NKJV
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[SUP][h][/SUP] who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


2 Peter 1:5-11 NKJV
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This is not to say that this describes a salvation by works at all, as we know, obedience is an acceptable service unto the Lord.

I agree that there is no greek word that is ὑπερχάρις. I said they get the hyper grace term from "much more abounds " Where sin abounds - grace much more abounds. this is where the "hyper" part comes in. We as believers should be celebrating the great grace of God shown in Christ for us!

Indeed, and part of that grace is to live a life for Him and only Him, not returning to the lives we once lived in and abstaining from what the Lord is displeased with. From there we can abound more in doing His will and moving forward in His power. This is why we are exhorted to seek what is pleasing to the Lord and walk in that, turning away from what we once were and the sins we lived in. The term hyper grace was coined to describe preachers that completely ignore the exhortation for conduct as ambassadors of Christ and focus only one part of the gospel.

 

[james57]

Interesting thought progression. However, the problem with the doctrine that our sins past present and future are forgiven fails to address clear scriptures stating that our past sins are forgiven not our future sins. Christ's sacrifice for our sins cleanses our sins away making us a new creature. At that point His blood still has the power to keep us from sin and the power of future sin. This is why in the NT, the Church is exhorted many times to repent for sin committed. Notice that the context is the Church having to repent. Repentance as we all know is not a one time deal. We continue to repent and the Lord Jesus Christ, our sole Mediator and Advocate, is good to forgive us!

Romans 3:21-26 NKJV
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[SUP][h][/SUP] who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


2 Peter 1:5-11 NKJV
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This is not to say that this describes a salvation by works at all, as we know, obedience is an acceptable service unto the Lord.



Indeed, and part of that grace is to live a life for Him and only Him, not returning to the lives we once lived in and abstaining from what the Lord is displeased with. From there we can abound more in doing His will and moving forward in His power. This is why we are exhorted to seek what is pleasing to the Lord and walk in that, turning away from what we once were and the sins we lived in. The term hyper grace was coined to describe preachers that completely ignore the exhortation for conduct as ambassadors of Christ and focus only one part of the gospel.

Hi
Romans 3:25 refers to the sins of those who lived before Christ walked this earth.
If Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion the christian must live under a law of righteousness before God, nothing else is possible
Sin is transgression of the law. Therefore if Jesus did not die for all your sin, you must be under a law of righteousness as a christian. If we believe that we must dismiss Paul's message.
Just supposing Paul was right:
The power of sin is the law( of righteousness)
Just supposing Paul was right

For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace( rom6:14)

What would hells best kept secret then be?
What would satan be desperate for people not to believe?

Supposing it is the people who refuse to truly accept Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness( he died for all the converts sins, past, present and future) who believe Paul is speaking as a christian in rom 7:14-25. Because despite the theological knowledge they have of the Gospel, they cannot in their heart accept Jesus actually did die for all their sin at Calvary, therefore in reality they live their lives under a law of righteousness and therefore empathise with someone who is speaking of when he did also
Just supposing

 

[james57]

These men listed are all wonderful men of God that speak of the great salvation and love that Jesus bought for us with His Blood. They lift up the name of Jesus when they tell of His wonderous works on our behalf! Jesus is always exalted in the true gospel of grace! It's all about Him and not us!

I read this persons take on the gospel of grace and again I have to say that I have listened to at least 1,000 sermons on grace over the years and I have never heard one say that we could go out and sin because of the grace of God. In fact they say the very opposite of what this man reports.

These men are in good company as they are with Paul about the preaching of the gospel of Christ!

One of the theologians he quotes about how cults work in the article - Martyn Lloyd-Jones himself believes in the gospel of God as taught by these men and he says this about the gospel of grace. Paul was "accused" of being antinomianism and so will every other true teacher of the gospel of grace.

Amen! Brothers and sisters - we truly have a wonderful salvation that our Lord Jesus bought for us with His Blood! He is awesome!!! The Lord has done great things for us and holy is His Name!

Joseph smith was feeling down one day because of all the attacks he was receiving from inside the church due to the message he preached. He went into a bookstore and noticed a book by martin Lloyd jones. He opened it and read of his belief Jesus died for all your sin at Calvary.
I love the quote of his you have put up.
Jesus was accused by the religious of being a lawbreaker
One of the reasons Stephen was arrested and stoned to death was because he was supposedly ignoring the law
Paul said:

Brothers if I am still preaching circumcision( ie law) why am i still being persecuted? In that case the offence of the cross has been abolished gal5:11


The true persecution comes from inside the church( religious establishment) when grace is fully preached. It has always been this way. The accusation has always been the same
You are ignoring the law. In other words, you are preaching a licence to sin

 

[ladylynn]

try looking in & around Hebrews 12:5, or Proverbs 3:11

Been to Hebrews often and am aware of Heb.12 and Prov.3, still, see no woodshed, no word "woodshed" and no concept of the Father being angry at me waiting to bounce the moment I step out of line. I see the Good Shepherd loving me.