I am the resurrection and the life

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VW

VW

Banned
#1
Dec 22, 2009
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#1
Ten years os so ago, I asked the Lord to show me the meaning of a certain passage. What follows will most likely offend some, but I do not offer this to offend, but rather to challenge what I am coming to believe, to prove or disprove, and to see deeper into this perplexing passage. I beg your forgiveness beforehand, as while pursuing this I have inadvertly offended some that I love in Christ.

The passage is found inJohn, where Jesus is talking to Martha before going to the grave of Lazarus. He says that He is the resurrection and the life. He goes on to explain that everyone who believes in Him will live, even if they die. And then He says something which took my breath away, when I really heard what He is saying. He said that everyone who lives and believes in Him shall never die.

As I think about what Jesus is saying here, I see three distinctly different things. I see the life, and I see the two resurrections. Some time earlier, Jesus explained how The Father had given Him life to have in Himself. He said that the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live. Bear this in mind as we go on, for this is the life. A few words later, Jesus says that a day is coming when those who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, and those who did evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

We know that there are two resurrections, one to life, and one to eternal judgment. But there is also life in Him, those who live and believe inHim, who shall never die. See why I asked Him to teach me what this means? It turns everything I had been taught, everything I believed, upsidedown.

What I am beginning to see, (but still am not absolutely sure of, but getting there,) is this. Everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. Everyone. Those who hear His voice will live then, never to die. Those who believe, but do not hear His voice, to live even if they die, in the first resurrection. Those who do not believe, in the second resurrection.

Well, I said it would be different. I pray that we can explore this and find the truth if I am wrong. Some here have much knowledge in the ancient languages, and might see in the words where this is not what is said.

Blessings in His name
 
VW

VW

Banned
#2
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#2
Well, I thought that someone might have some answer to this. Maybe everyone already knew it.
 
L

lighthousejohn

Guest
#3
#3
VW said:
Ten years os so ago, I asked the Lord to show me the meaning of a certain passage. What follows will most likely offend some, but I do not offer this to offend, but rather to challenge what I am coming to believe, to prove or disprove, and to see deeper into this perplexing passage. I beg your forgiveness beforehand, as while pursuing this I have inadvertly offended some that I love in Christ.

The passage is found inJohn, where Jesus is talking to Martha before going to the grave of Lazarus. He says that He is the resurrection and the life. He goes on to explain that everyone who believes in Him will live, even if they die. And then He says something which took my breath away, when I really heard what He is saying. He said that everyone who lives and believes in Him shall never die.

As I think about what Jesus is saying here, I see three distinctly different things. I see the life, and I see the two resurrections. Some time earlier, Jesus explained how The Father had given Him life to have in Himself. He said that the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live. Bear this in mind as we go on, for this is the life. A few words later, Jesus says that a day is coming when those who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, and those who did evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

We know that there are two resurrections, one to life, and one to eternal judgment. But there is also life in Him, those who live and believe inHim, who shall never die. See why I asked Him to teach me what this means? It turns everything I had been taught, everything I believed, upsidedown.

What I am beginning to see, (but still am not absolutely sure of, but getting there,) is this. Everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. Everyone. Those who hear His voice will live then, never to die. Those who believe, but do not hear His voice, to live even if they die, in the first resurrection. Those who do not believe, in the second resurrection.

Well, I said it would be different. I pray that we can explore this and find the truth if I am wrong. Some here have much knowledge in the ancient languages, and might see in the words where this is not what is said.

Blessings in His name
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VW,

I am not an expert in ancient languages but I believe that God created man to live forever as an immortal being. By man's choice to participate in sin; that immortal life became finite. God also placed in each of us an immortal soul. That soul remains immortal and will forever live in eternity; either in heven or in hell. We are all called to the resurrection. One to life everlasting, the other to eternal suffering. The choice is ours to make.

In Christ,
John
 
VW

VW

Banned
#4
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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lighthousejohn said:
VW,

I am not an expert in ancient languages but I believe that God created man to live forever as an immortal being. By man's choice to participate in sin; that immortal life became finite. God also placed in each of us an immortal soul. That soul remains immortal and will forever live in eternity; either in heven or in hell. We are all called to the resurrection. One to life everlasting, the other to eternal suffering. The choice is ours to make.

In Christ,
John
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Yes, and that soul will go to the grave, to await the resurrection. But I feel that the life is something more, a sharing in the life of God now, and into eternity. The way that Jesus talked about His being the life, that the hour is coming and now is when the dead will hear His voice, and those who hear will live says something to us that is more than the resurrection. This is what I am trying to explore, to understand, because as He said, everyone who lives and believes in Him shall never die. Not like those those who believe in Him and live, even if they die. See what I mean?

Blessing brother,
vic
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#5
Apr 20, 2009
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#5
VW, this has also been on my heart and thoughts, cautiously of course.
More and more I see that true life is not the world, that which we can touch or see, but that which is eternal, Jesus!
If one considers that all we know in this world is headed toward death, towards deterioration. Nothing we know in the world can be preserved forever.
But Jesus died for our sins, then resurected to live eternally.
If we, who have accepted Jesus, have his Spirit living in us, then we know that His Holy Spirit is eternal.
It is the eternal in Jesus that we must reside, it is this that is the true living, it has no death.
Latlely I see within me a clear stream of water, full and so full of light, this stream of water goes directly to Heaven, to Jesus.
I see this as the real life, that which connects us to Jesus in Heaven.
The lords prayer says : on earth as it is in Heaven. (There is alot in these words as well.)
Jesus said , I am the way, the truth , the light.
One must live in me, and I in him.
I believe that one must truelly step into Jesus to live.
I strive to live in that clear stream of perfect water that is Jesus.
Like I said I am cautious, but the scriptures all lead to this in Jesus.
Just my interpitation.
God bless, pickles
 
VW

VW

Banned
#6
Dec 22, 2009
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#6
I am cautious also. Because if what I am seeing proves out, it will, and most likely already has, changed how I see our redemption of our flesh and gathering together unto Him. And especialle the resurrections.
That Jesus said that the hour is coming and has already come when the dead shall hear His voice and those who hear shall live, it just takes my breath away. And then when He says that whoever lives and believes in Him shall never die, well, I don't know what to say about this. When God first spoke to the children of Israel, they did not want to hear His voice, and told Moses not to let God speak to them, lest they die! But if we hear His voice, we will never die. Like Paul so passionately said, where is the sting and the victory of death and the grave?

But even more, as you point out, it is His life. Jesus made the point, more than once to His disciples, that He has Life in Himself, just as the Father has Life. He speaks to us, and we come alive from the dead, in Him. For even though our flesh I's dead and decaying, because of sin, the Spirit of God gives our bodies life, that we might live to God.

Blessings in Jesus
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#7
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
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#7
There is nothing greater or better than Jesus opening our eyes to His truth.
God bless, pickles
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#8
#8
i am trying to work out what the profound new dicovery is

this is all basics as far as i know
 
VW

VW

Banned
#9
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#9
greatkraw said:
i am trying to work out what the profound new dicovery is

this is all basics as far as i know
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Not if the resurrection if different from the life.

Jesus said plainly that those who live and believe in Him will never die. The resurrection is for those who are dead.

Actually, it is beginning to become a proof of the rapture in my heart. Not necessarily pretrib, but a rapture all the same.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#10
#10
This all depends upon whether you see "the resurrection and the life" as two words describing the same thing or two simultaneous but separate truths.
 
VW

VW

Banned
#11
Dec 22, 2009
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charisenexcelcis said:
This all depends upon whether you see "the resurrection and the life" as two words describing the same thing or two simultaneous but separate truths.
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As I read and pray about His words on this, I cannot see them as the same. He described the life as being now, spiritual and eternal life, from hearing His voice. He described the resurrection as being from the grave, and coming forth to judgment.

I am beginning to believe that those who are in Christ have a place in a resurrection which has already happened, when He was raised from the dead, and all of the rest of humanity has their resurrection at the beginning and the end of His thousand year reign on earth.

But even beyond that, our life is not dependent on any resurrection, but rather upon His power of life which He has given to us in His Spirit.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#12
#12
according to John we have eternal life already right now if we havebelieved on Jesus for salvation
being eternal it cannot then be taken away from us for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER
 
VW

VW

Banned
#13
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#13
greatkraw said:
according to John we have eternal life already right now if we havebelieved on Jesus for salvation
being eternal it cannot then be taken away from us for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER
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True, but not what I am seeing.
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#14
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
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#14
Im going to have to read the passages again, but I wonder if this ties in with the second death refured to in Revelations.
I remeber it speaking to those that will not suffer the second death.
Anyway Ill have to read again to understand all in context to the whole scripture.
God bless, pickles
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#15
#15
VW said:
Not if the resurrection if different from the life.

Jesus said plainly that those who live and believe in Him will never die. The resurrection is for those who are dead.

Actually, it is beginning to become a proof of the rapture in my heart. Not necessarily pretrib, but a rapture all the same.
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well if what Jesus said was pertaining to the present, then I understand that when the resurrection occurs, all those dead in Christ (believers) will be resurrected, and those that are alive on Earth at that time their earthly bodies will in the twinkling of an eye be changed supernaturally.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


so in my understanding these verses explain the process that happens when we are called up...the rapture.
so those alive at the time will not die we will be instantly transformed!
 
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VW

VW

Banned
#16
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#16
Nope, what you describe is not the resurrection, not as Jesus described it. He said that all those in the tombs shall hear His voice and come forth to a resurrection, those who did good to a resurrection of life, and those who did evil to a resurrection of judgment.

I think what Paul is writing about is in His resurrection, because we have already been raised in Him.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#17
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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Graybeard said:
well if what Jesus said was pertaining to the present, then I understand that when the resurrection occurs, all those dead in Christ (believers) will be resurrected, and those that are alive on Earth at that time their earthly bodies will in the twinkling of an eye be changed supernaturally.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


so in my understanding these verses explain the process that happens when we are called up...the rapture.
so those alive at the time will not die we will be instantly transformed!
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And according to scripture that is absolutely correct. I agree. I think Paul refers to them as 'asleep in Christ,' therefore they are not actually dead if you understand me, and so there is no conflict withj Christ's words
 
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VW

VW

Banned
#18
Dec 22, 2009
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#18
The resurrection is from the dead.

We are alive in Christ Jesus. Not part of the resurrection. If we are in Jesus, and since Jesus has already died, and we have died in Him, and since He has already been buried, and we have been buried in Him, and since He has already been raised, and we have been raised in Him, do we really have a part in the first resurrection, much less the second?
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#19
#19
VW said:
The resurrection is from the dead.

We are alive in Christ Jesus. Not part of the resurrection. If we are in Jesus, and since Jesus has already died, and we have died in Him, and since He has already been buried, and we have been buried in Him, and since He has already been raised, and we have been raised in Him, do we really have a part in the first resurrection, much less the second?
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If we have no part in the resurrection...then what would this passage mean?

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#20
Dec 19, 2009
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#20
Also

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn. Christ, the firstfruits, then when he comes all those who belong to him. Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father. 1Cor15:22-24

This confirms Christ's words

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John6:40
 
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