I cannot understand the need for the crucifixion-and i think it’s holding my Christian life back

[Marcelo]

Why was gods son nailed to a cross-tortured and humiliated to get a message across. Why did god not just send his beloved son with a message and a warning-“this is your last chance-we’re wiping the slate clean but you must follow me“. Why the need for Jesus’ blood 🩸 why the need for such a barbaric death ordered by his own father-the merciful lord got. I just don’t get it. Jesus didn’t need to be murdered to get me to follow him.

Great question! I am of the same mind as you on this. God is God and he can do whatever he wants, the way he wants. I have asked this question repeatedly over the years: "Why was it necessary to sacrifice the son of God?" But I never found a logical answer.

God could teach, judge and forgive us without permitting his son to be tortured, but he chose the hardest way.

! COR 1:23 but we preach the Messiah crucified. He is a stumbling block to Jews and nonsense to gentiles,

To unbelievers the crucifixion is nonsense because there is no logical explanation to it. Again, God could forgive us without sacrificing his son. So, I believe God's intention is to show how costly is the forgiveness of our sins. Christ's blood is far more valuable than all the silver and gold in the world.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1 Corinthians 1 -

"30 But out of Him, you are in Christ Jesus, who has been made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 in order that, as it has been written: “The one boasting, let him boast in the Lord.”"






Another thought:

"Hereby perceive we the love: because he laid down his life for us..." 1Jn3:16

 

[Ann-Marie]

"" IMPORTANT QUESTION. DID JESUS MEAN FOR US TO OBEY HIM AND DO COMMANDMENTS ONE AND TWO . AND WHY HAVE I BEEN TOLD THAT HIS PREACHING WAS NOT FOR US, WHOM HE TOLD ARE TO DO IT?

I HONESTLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS. I KNOW WE ARE NOT WORKS BASED, ""

Welcome to the weird world of the "pauline only cult"
They preach against the gospels. They claim Jesus failed at his mission to establish the kingdom with the Jews so the cross was plan B.

It us another lunacy heresy

ARE YOU SAYING THIS SITE IS ] PAULINIAN CHRISTIANITY? i AM REALLY CONFUSED. AND TO ME, THE GOSPEL IS WHAT JESUS PREACHED AND THE 4 GOSPELS MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE AND JOHN ALL HAD DIFFERENT VIEWS OF WHAT HAPPENED.

 

[Duskey]

In order for Christ to resurrect, he had to die first.

Center on the resurrection and innocent blood.

Then you get the "why"

FINALLY someone makes sense of it all. Excellent point, @Absolutely. You put it into perspective combining Christ’s death with His Resurrection, and now I understand. Hopefully the OP will also. Thank you. 😎🙏

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

They preach against the gospels. They claim Jesus failed at his mission to establish the kingdom with the Jews so the cross was plan B.

Hogwash.

Study the distinction between the phrases "BEFORE [pro - G4253] the foundation of the world" and "FROM [apo - G575] the foundation of the world" (and they are indeed distinct), and you will see that this is indeed NOT SO (as you have put it).


["having been slain FROM [G575] the foundation of the world"--no "plan b" here ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

ARE YOU SAYING THIS SITE IS ] PAULINIAN CHRISTIANITY?

For the readers: do not conflate what is known as "Pauline Christianity" with that of which is commonly called "Pauline Dispensationalism" (they are VASTLY DIFFERENT things!):


See GotQuestions for the former (which is TOTALLY WACKED):

"What is Pauline Christianity?" -

https://www.gotquestions.org/Pauline-Christianity.html


That ^ is NOT "Pauline Dispensationalism".

Many people mis-use the terms, incorrectly conflating them (at the very least, in their minds).






[Luke 16:1-18, esp. vv.3-4]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ To that, I would also add what I'd put in another thread just now:

https://christianchat.com/threads/calvinism-and-context.194694/post-4371124

[...as well as, what Paul said in 2Cor11:2 (re: the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" betrothed to Christ, which he/Paul said of, "that *I* may PRESENT..." [i.e. his assigned task]), and recognize that "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" is not the "GUESTS [PLURAL]" nor the "TEN [or even FIVE] VIRGINS [PLURAL]," but are entirely DISTINCT--Jesus is not coming to MARRY "TEN [nor even FIVE] VIRGINS [PLURAL]"... those pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (the earthly MK age, and their entrance into THAT... it is NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")--many ppl incorrectly conflate these]

 

[Ann-Marie]

Well, I am lost. No one really answered my question which was are we to do what Jesus asked us to do during his Ministry.

My simple question: Obey Jesus commandments or not? No one answered. That is my answer.

Grace is a wonderful gift.
BUT, jesus life and preaching are the heart of the New Testament, for me. I will never get it all right and I know that ... but this sinner will try to give love where I can,to be kind, to try ... and I will fall far short of what Jesus is asking of me and I know that.

All be well.
Ann-Marie

 

[EternalFire]

Well, I am lost. No one really answered my question which was are we to do what Jesus asked us to do during his Ministry.

My simple question: Obey Jesus commandments or not? No one answered. That is my answer.

Grace is a wonderful gift.
BUT, jesus life and preaching are the heart of the New Testament, for me. I will never get it all right and I know that ... but this sinner will try to give love where I can,to be kind, to try ... and I will fall far short of what Jesus is asking of me and I know that.

All be well.
Ann-Marie

Hi, Ann-Marie. You have rightly observed that some try to make all of Christ’s teachings exclusive to Israel. There is, however, only one Gospel of the Kingdom of God. It is the one preached by Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. The Good News is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.

You may enjoy this video which discusses the matter in depth. The message begins around 7:40 in the video.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

My simple question: Obey Jesus commandments or not? No one answered. That is my answer.

Here is an "IMPERATIVE/COMMAND" Jesus gave:

"5 These twelve, Jesus sent forth, having instructed them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to those being the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And going on, proclaim, saying, ‘The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near!’ 8 Heal the ailing, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers,a cast out demons! Freely you received; freely give.
9 Take along neither gold nor silver nor copper in your belts, 10 nor provision-bag for the way, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor a staff; for the workman is worthy of his provisions."

...but not to "us," see.

 

[Ann-Marie]

Hi, Ann-Marie. You have rightly observed that some try to make all of Christ’s teachings exclusive to Israel. There is, however, only one Gospel of the Kingdom of God. It is the one preached by Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. The Good News is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.

You may enjoy this video which discusses the matter in depth. The message begins around 7:40 in the video.

thank you very much. I will listen to it.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

MichaelLone said:
Why was gods son nailed to a cross-tortured and humiliated to get a message across. Why did god not just send his beloved son with a message and a warning-“this is your last chance-we’re wiping the slate clean but you must follow me“. Why the need for Jesus’ blood 🩸 why the need for such a barbaric death ordered by his own father-the merciful lord got. I just don’t get it. Jesus didn’t need to be murdered to get me to follow him.

JESUS was born under law and the and If the law was not met It meant death.Remember that GOD loves righteousness so then If the people that JESUS had mercy on forgiving their sin had broken the law then JESUS who loves righteousness would satisfy the law by taking the place of those who believe In HIM.

 

[Ann-Marie]

EternalFire said:
Hi, Ann-Marie. You have rightly observed that some try to make all of Christ’s teachings exclusive to Israel. There is, however, only one Gospel of the Kingdom of God. It is the one preached by Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. The Good News is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.

@EternalFire What does this mean? "some try to make all of Christ's teachings exclusive to Israel?

 

[BrianFochler]

Hello MchaelLone!
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, they had decided they were going to take care of things themselves. I effect they were saying they don't need God, This was when death came into the world; both physical and eternal. That is the "wages of sin". This sin debt is so huge that we can never pay it off. This is not just a matter of "Ok God I get the picture I won't sin any more." It does not matter even if we never sinned once in our lives, the fact that we were born in sin. (Psalm 51:5 (ESV) Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.) And if we are born in sin we are sin and are an enemy of God. As an enemy of God we cannot come to god but rather reject God. So, God had no choice but to send his Son who came to us in the form of a little baby. Talking of Psalm 51:5, we, being born in sin, makes us unclean and an enemy of God. But the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. When Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us all of our sin, past present and future have been forgiven. The slate has been swept clean. All our sins have been removed from us through the suffering and death of Jesus on the cross. We no longer have to suffer death because Jesus, our advocate, suffered and died in our stead.

 

[EternalFire]

EternalFire said:
Hi, Ann-Marie. You have rightly observed that some try to make all of Christ’s teachings exclusive to Israel. There is, however, only one Gospel of the Kingdom of God. It is the one preached by Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. The Good News is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.

@EternalFire What does this mean? "some try to make all of Christ's teachings exclusive to Israel?

They think the words of Jesus are only for Israelites and that the words of Paul are for Gentiles.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

They think the words of Jesus are only for Israelites and that the words of Paul are for Gentiles.

Not exactly.

It means that Jesus had said to His disciples [just before the Cross], "I have YET MANY THINGS to say to you, BUT ye cannot bear them NOW. However WHEN..." ... and that this is what we see RECORDED in the later parts of Scripture FOLLOWING His death/ Cross / Resurrection / Ascension / Exaltation... IOW, everything (in Scripture) FOLLOWING that, is AlSO "the words of Jesus"

therefore, His instruction for us to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth" is WHAT HE SAID, too. The problem enters when people "disregard" the epistles ['the words of Paul,' as you put it] as though they were the mere "words of man" ('good advice,' 'fluffy unimportant things,' 'not as vital as the words written in red,' 'opinion pieces,' etc...). Instead, we do good to "pay heed" to it, as FROM HIM [/Jesus] ALSO.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ [to go along with what I said in that post ^ ]

...an example of this ^ is what I had given in another thread back on Sept 9, but to which (from what I can tell) no one has given a response:

Post #60 - https://christianchat.com/threads/things-happen.194668/post-4366547


Anyone care to address it? Convince me of your [opposing] viewpoint (which you see to be more biblical), on this?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...and one more thing, 1Pet1:13 says [and note there's NO "definite article" before the word "revelation," here, whereas "THE revelation of JC" refers to a DISTINCT THING] -

"Wherefore having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober, hope perfectly upon the grace that is being brought [present participle] to you in revelation [<--no definite article] of Jesus Christ" [...]




[this ^ particular phrase (UNLIKE the other WITH definite article) is not referring to the eschatological "THE revelation" of Him (<--future)]

 

[Ann-Marie]

ey think the words of Jesus are only for Israelites and that the words of Paul are for Gentiles.

Thank you for explaining it. I had thought so, but wasn't sure. I think those words were for all of us because he was saying the two greatest commandments are to love God and love thy neighbor and then he elaboraed on it. I dont think you can ignore Jesus' preachings. Oh well.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[from Post #155 of this thread, yesterday]

[repost of last Friday's post, linked there--and WHY we are in need of a Saviour ]


Romans 7:1-4 -

1 Or are you ignorant brothers (for I speak to those knowing the law), that the law rules over the man for as long as the time he is alive? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to the living husband; but if the husband should die, she is cleared from the law of the husband. 3 So then, if she is to another man, the husband being alive, she will be called an adulteress; but if the husband should die, she is free from the law, so as for her not to be an adulteress, having been to another man.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the Law through [/by means of] the body of Christ, for you to belong to Another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God.




Romans 8:3-4 -

3 For of the Law being powerless in that it was weak through the flesh, God, having sent His Son in likeness of sin of flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteousness of the Law should be fulfilled IN us [note: not "BY us"] not walking according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

[inserting: see also Romans 8:9b "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is NONE OF HIS."]


1Tim1:3-11 -
3 Just as I urged you to remain in Ephesus when I was going to Macedonia, so that you might warn certain men not to teach other doctrines, 4 nor to give heed to myths and endless genealogies, which bring speculations rather than God’s stewardship, which is in faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and a sincere faith, 6 from which some, having missed the mark, have turned aside to meaningless discourse, 7 desiring to be teachers of the Law, understanding neither what they are saying nor that about which they confidently assert.
8 Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this, that law is not enacted for a righteous one, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for slayers of man, 10 for the sexually immoral, homosexuals, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and if anything other is opposed to being sound in the teaching, 11 according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

[end quoting Friday's post, linked in Post #155 of this thread, yesterday, & #156]