I don't understand some Bible verses.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,648
471
83
#21
Matthew 10:34 34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and one's foes will be members of one's own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Here I'd take "sword" as separation and peace as "unity" and "agreement". Sometimes the people in your own family will oppose God and make your walk much more difficult. We are not supposed to drop the teachings of Jesus to agree with and coddle our own family, or anyone else. This will in turn cause opposition and persecution against Christians. Read a bit about Christians in the Middle East or maybe India, how some get tortured or killed by their own families even nowadays.

Luke 12:51-53 51 "Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Just as in this verse. The war is to be understood as "division" and "separation" from the world. Not as us trying to actively harm others.
So separating us from the world, is what Jesus is actually talking about. We are to be "a peculiar people" and to make a difference.

Luke 14:26 26 "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.
Jesus used "hard sayings" all the time. Packed it in a form, that would repulse the listeners, unless they looked for spiritual understanding of what was said. Like when people were repulsed with Him "how will this man give us his flesh and blood to eat???" And Jesus said, "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." God already put the premise to abstain from eating blood and canibalism. Then it must mean, that Jesus was saying something else here, and He did.
God already put the premise before you, to love your neighbor. By the logic of the above, it also means, that Jesus is saying something else here.
This is not called contradiction, this is called paradox. It serves to confirm to you that you "figured it out" when your understanding is in complete harmony with the rest of the Bible. So it is actually a tool to help understanding. If it doesn't fit the rest of the Scriptures, then the understanding isn't correct.

The first thing that you should ALWAYS do is reading the full context, rather than individual verses.
If you do this, you will see that this is a part of a parable, where God called people to be His and do His work, yet they were too busy with their family business and other affairs in the world, and ignored God and went on with their lives. The context of the verse makes it clear, as some other members pointed out already, that God's business should be put first and foremost. We are put into the world, to toil and suffer. Don't you hate it? Don't we all prefer eternal life of joy? The context of hating family is probably preferring one's family to the truth of God, remember how Solomon's wives turned his heart away from God.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,479
503
113
#22
I am not sure about the devil being our earthly father... I have never heard this before?
I’m sure you know that Hagar is the spiritual mother of all of those who are in bondage to Jerusalem - under the law. Hagar is an allegory used in comparing the two covenants.

That’s what Jesus is getting at in John 8:44. The devil wasn’t literally the Pharisees father, it’s an allegory (spiritual).


Joh 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When Jesus says to hate our mother or father which father or mother is he referring to, our literal mother or father or our spiritual (allegorical) mother or father.

When we start changing the words in the Bible that’s when we miss the meaning.

Things like this is why the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus.... it was utter nonsense in their eyes.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,581
113
#23
I am not sure about the devil being our earthly father... I have never heard this before?
He's not....Jesus used it metaphorically many times to not only identify lost men that peddle false dogma's, but also on occasion to rebuke the disciples by directly calling them Satan.....the human race stands in Adam.......if you take what he said, which is false and not even applicable to the scriptures quoted in the OP then PETER must be SATAN.........ridiculous!!
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,377
5,817
113
#24
He's not....Jesus used it metaphorically many times to not only identify lost men that peddle false dogma's, but also on occasion to rebuke the disciples by directly calling them Satan.....the human race stands in Adam.......if you take what he said, which is false and not even applicable to the scriptures quoted in the OP then PETER must be SATAN.........ridiculous!!
Well that is what I was thinking, that it was metaphorical.
Agree!! Thanks!
 
Sep 8, 2019
82
9
8
USA
#25
Oh it's really simple Lord Jesus brought the Truth. Truth is very divisive, especially in an evil world and evil time like this. Very few people can handle the Truth, because they are ensnared by their parents, their spouses, society, their possessions, and even their own selves. Notice how all those things are things that belong to the world, and to be a friend of the world is to be the enemy of God. If you don't hate any of those things indeed you will never follow Lord Jesus because you will follow those things instead.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,479
503
113
#26
He's not....Jesus used it metaphorically many times to not only identify lost men that peddle false dogma's, but also on occasion to rebuke the disciples by directly calling them Satan.....the human race stands in Adam.......if you take what he said, which is false and not even applicable to the scriptures quoted in the OP then PETER must be SATAN.........ridiculous!!
So when do we take verses at face value and when do we relegate them to meaningless metaphor?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Active member
Feb 8, 2019
176
34
28
#27
I don't understand some Bible verses.
Matthew 10:34 34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and one's foes will be members of one's own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Luke 12:51-53 51 "Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Luke 14:26 26 "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.
I checked out a half-dozen different versions of the Bible and the all use the same word "hate".
I checked out my " The Complete Word Study New Testament" and the English word" hate" is translated from the Greek word "3404 (hatred) to detest (especially to persecute) by extension to love less – hate( – ful)
I must have read right over these verses and not paid attention to the words and they contradict my beliefs and what I was taught about Jesus Christ.
If anyone can explain this verses (without ignoring words) I would appreciate that you respond to me.
Thank You
Matthew 4:21-22
[And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee] saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

Galatians 1:14-15
And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace.

---
I believe this is what Jesus is talking about here. You might have to leave the religious traditions you were brought up in and follow the Word and the One True Christ.

Many of us are brought up in good homes, following good but man-made traditions, and not following the Word. But if this is the case we are called to leave these traditions of our fathers and grandfathers - which are following the ways of this world - and called to follow Christ alone. Quite often this puts us at odds with our loved ones, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters - perhaps even our wife. They might judge us or place guilt on us because we are not following the traditions we were brought up in.

Once you are saved, then you ought to share your testimony and the Word of God with your family members which you love. This can cause further strain or tension or anger, which can cause division. This can disrupt the peace that is within the family. But no matter what we are to choose Christ over our family.

Hate is a metaphor in the sense that we love Christ so much that we "hate" our family. In actuality we should continue to love our family members but perhaps disown or even hate the religious but erroneous traditions.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,403
942
113
#28
I don't understand some Bible verses.
Matthew 10:34 34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and one's foes will be members of one's own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Luke 12:51-53 51 "Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Luke 14:26 26 "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.
I checked out a half-dozen different versions of the Bible and the all use the same word "hate".
I checked out my " The Complete Word Study New Testament" and the English word" hate" is translated from the Greek word "3404 (hatred) to detest (especially to persecute) by extension to love less – hate( – ful)
I must have read right over these verses and not paid attention to the words and they contradict my beliefs and what I was taught about Jesus Christ.
If anyone can explain this verses (without ignoring words) I would appreciate that you respond to me.
Thank You
Hello miker088,

In understand how this could be confusing. The problem is with the Greek word "miseo" translated as "hate," which based on the actual Greek word, is a bad translation. When we take into consideration that under the law we are to "honor our mother and father," how then can we believe that Jesus is telling us to hate our father and mother, wife and children, brother and sisters, etc.? Below is the actual definition of the word Miseo translated as hate:

===========================================
HELPS Word-studies
3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.

Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple"
============================================

Below is another scripture regarding the same teaching:

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

So, the scripture above supports the idea of the definition of the word "miseo" to basically mean that unless we love someone or something than Jesus, then we are not worthy of Him.

I hope that this helps clear up this issue. It is important to look up the actual Greek word, instead of just relying on the translated English word.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,308
1,714
113
#29
We are to love all men. We are to love our earthly mothers, fathers and siblings. We are to love them and pray for the salvation of their souls with great affliction and ardor. With all this we are to so love our Savior with and even greater love. A love that is so much greater that it would seem we have our earthly family and love only Christ.

I love my family and I love my church family but my love for Christ is greater than all else. I may be abandoned by all others but Christ will never leave nor forsake me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,123
1,632
113
#30
not,
nitty-gritty post, right the point!...

MATT. 15:4-5-6.
For God commanded, saying, Honour your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
5.
But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever you might be profited by me;
6.
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God
of none effect by your tradition.

any time the scripture seems to contradict, it's usually a 'language-issue'...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,581
113
#31
So when do we take verses at face value and when do we relegate them to meaningless metaphor?
The last part of your comment is exactly why I rarely engage you.....it was idiotic and actually very anti-biblical and Satanic to call a God inspired metaphor meaningless.....
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,377
5,817
113
#32
So when do we take verses at face value and when do we relegate them to meaningless metaphor?
Metaphors are very powerful tools, and it is the exact opposite metaphors are saturated with meaning!!
 
Sep 7, 2019
24
8
3
#33
To interpret this passage one should clarify the symbolism in the beginning, for it is through this lens that things will become more clear. The sword that Jesus brings is the Sword of Truth (Armor of God) that is the sharp double-edged sword that comes from the mouth of the rider who is called Faithful and True: ... the Word of God... the Holy Bible.
 
Sep 8, 2019
82
9
8
USA
#34
To interpret this passage one should clarify the symbolism in the beginning, for it is through this lens that things will become more clear. The sword that Jesus brings is the Sword of Truth (Armor of God) that is the sharp double-edged sword that comes from the mouth of the rider who is called Faithful and True: ... the Word of God... the Holy Bible.
My favorite passage of the whole Bible, praise Jesus for putting it into your head and mine! It is not symbolic this will actually happen, praise LORD JESUS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!




Revelation 19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:


2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,479
503
113
#35
The last part of your comment is exactly why I rarely engage you.....it was idiotic and actually very anti-biblical and Satanic to call a God inspired metaphor meaningless.....
A metaphor is a figure of speech applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.... In other words a metaphor is a BIG FAT LIE.

I hope that you don’t think God uses lies to teach spiritual lessons.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
10,479
503
113
#36
Metaphors are very powerful tools, and it is the exact opposite metaphors are saturated with meaning!!
I’ll ask you the same question I asked DC, do you think God uses lies to teach spiritual lessons?

Gen 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Who do think Satans seed is?

Is this just a metaphor?

Jesus said “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.” Do you think it’s possible that maybe they are “thy seed” in Genesis 3:15?

Well Satan didn’t have sex with Eve so “thy seed” certainly isn’t a talking about Satans earthly offspring.

Who then is Satans seed in Genesis 3:5? Just a metaphor?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,403
942
113
#37
To interpret this passage one should clarify the symbolism in the beginning, for it is through this lens that things will become more clear. The sword that Jesus brings is the Sword of Truth (Armor of God) that is the sharp double-edged sword that comes from the mouth of the rider who is called Faithful and True: ... the Word of God... the Holy Bible.
Agreed! The double-edged sword is figurative representing the word of God. This truth is revealed in Heb.4:12, Eph.6:17 and Hosea 6:5.

Basically, Jesus will speak the word of God and all the wicked gathered there will drop dead and the birds will eat their flesh.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,958
1,791
113
#38
I don't understand some Bible verses.
Matthew 10:34 34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and one's foes will be members of one's own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Luke 12:51-53 51 "Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

When people read the message of Jesus and decide to believe Him and trust in the Atonement He secured on the cross they will face opposition from friends and relatives they know who have rejected the message of Jesus and do not trust in the atonement He secured on the cross... Thus we are from that point on divided from them in this critical area of our existence.. In the early church Jews who believed Jesus and trusted in His atonement often faced being shunned by their Jewish families and faced not only rejection but sometimes death.. We know Paul was a Jew who persecuted Christians before He became a Christian himself..

I have also personal experienced this division with my own dad and some of my brothers and sisters in the flesh. I was born into a catholic family but upon reading the Bible i renounced that religion trusting only in the Word of God and the Atonement He secured for me on the cross.. This divided me as a sword from some of my family.. Yes it was and is a case of me being against my devout catholic dad and him being opposed to my beliefs.. So the Word of Jesus is just as true today as an ex-catholic just as it was for the ex-Jews in the days just after His assention into heaven when they where divided from their families because of the Word of Jesus..


Luke 14:26 26 "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.
Do i detest the fallen unsaved state of being of my dad and mom and some of my brothers and sisters??? Yes indeed i hate their state of being.. Do i detest my own sin nature.. Do i wish i was already a transformed. resurrected. perfected eternal being.. You bet i do.. I detest my current imperfect state of being.. All of us who know about the wonderful will of God and the future transformation into perfect beings we yearn to have happen to us will detest our current condition with our sins and failures..


If anyone can explain this verses (without ignoring words) I would appreciate that you respond to me.
Thank You
Ok i think i have answered without ignoring any of the words in the verses you quote..
 
Sep 7, 2019
24
8
3
#39
I’ll ask you the same question I asked DC, do you think God uses lies to teach spiritual lessons?

Gen 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Who do think Satans seed is?

Is this just a metaphor?

Jesus said “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.” Do you think it’s possible that maybe they are “thy seed” in Genesis 3:15?

Well Satan didn’t have sex with Eve so “thy seed” certainly isn’t a talking about Satans earthly offspring.

Who then is Satans seed in Genesis 3:5? Just a metaphor?
The metaphor here is the seed. It is not, but not unlike, the sperm of a man. It is spiritual, not physical. It is the seed of thought. Satan's seed refers to those who have swallowed his lies and act accordingly.

At the same time, when Satan's followers are cast out of Heaven (and woe to the inhabitants of the Earth) they will be born of women. These women will be of one tribe. From this tribe will come the anti-Christ, and they will persecute the offspring of Judah.
Genesis 49:17 New International Version (NIV)
17 Dan will be a snake by the roadside,
a viper along the path,
that bites the horse’s heels
so that its rider tumbles backward.
 
Sep 7, 2019
24
8
3
#40
A metaphor is a figure of speech applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.... In other words a metaphor is a BIG FAT LIE.

I hope that you don’t think God uses lies to teach spiritual lessons.
Too bad you feel that way, because God teaches spiritual lessons with metaphor just as Jesus did. One of the most often noted aspects of Jesus' ministry is His copious use of parables. They are not lies. They are comparisons.