I find it very sad when Christians put their opinions over scripture. Some examples.

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Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
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#41
So many times Christians think god will lead them to their spouse. There is nothing in the bible to support this. In fact god makes it clear you decide who you marry.

"This is what the LORD commands for Zelophehad’s daughters: They may marry anyone they please as long as they marry within their father’s tribal clan" Numbers 36:6

A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:39
That isn't true at all John... the portion that I highlighted.

Issac's wife was found by Abraham's servant, who specifically prayed to God to lead him to the right woman.

Gen. 24:12-14 (ESV)

12 And he said, “O Lord, God of my master Abraham, please grant me success today and show steadfast love to my master Abraham. 13 Behold, I am standing by the spring of water, and the daughters of the men of the city are coming out to draw water. 14 Let the young woman to whom I shall say, ‘Please let down your jar that I may drink,’ and who shall say, ‘Drink, and I will water your camels’—let her be the one whom you have appointed for your servant Isaac. By this I shall know that you have shown steadfast love to my master.”
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#43
I had a discussion with one of the pastor's of the church about the book of Jonah. I mentioned Jonah never repented. He said Jonah did repent. we went back and forth on this. A couple of weeks later, to his credit, he came back and apologized. He told me I was right Jonah did not repent. Another time I was talking to a church elder, about Samanul, and mentioned a story about Hannah (his mother). He said, "who's Hannah"? I started wondering what book are these people reading? I saddened to think, I was talking to leaders in the church who should have known this.
To be fair, the Bible doesn't record Jonah repented. We have no idea if he eventually does or not.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#46
That isn't true at all John... the portion that I highlighted.

Issac's wife was found by Abraham's servant, who specifically prayed to God to lead him to the right woman.

Gen. 24:12-14 (ESV)

12 And he said, “O Lord, God of my master Abraham, please grant me success today and show steadfast love to my master Abraham. 13 Behold, I am standing by the spring of water, and the daughters of the men of the city are coming out to draw water. 14 Let the young woman to whom I shall say, ‘Please let down your jar that I may drink,’ and who shall say, ‘Drink, and I will water your camels’—let her be the one whom you have appointed for your servant Isaac. By this I shall know that you have shown steadfast love to my master.”
that was a one time event for a specific reason. It does not apply in general
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#47
we know from the story he did not.
That's not true. God used correction to bring about repentance for his initial disobedience. This leads credence to an eventual chastisement to repentance again. It is actually more likely, not less likely, that he repented.
 

JohnB

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#48
I know some people look at kissing, holding hands, and hugging, as innocent, but it is not to be done for there should be no contact for they should not be intimate in any way.

And boyfriend and girlfriend as saying they are a couple is wrong for it should not be but only married.

Did God say you can steal a small item but do not steal a big item.

You can call someone an idiot but do not call them a fool.

You cannot kiss and say it is alright but not fornicate because kissing is intimate with another person, and should only be reserved for marriage.

I see some parents kiss their children on the lips but I do not think it is right for that should only be for spouses.

Kissing, holding hands, and hugging, does not make any sense in this way that they would be considered temptations that could lead to doing more.

That reason alone would mean you cannot do those things.

Jesus said do not even lust after a woman in your heart for it is the same thing as doing the act.
If saying lusting after a woman is the same as having sex with her, you might as well go ahead and have sex with her.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#49
that was a one time event for a specific reason. It does not apply in general
Why is the example God left for us the exception, and not the rule? If you believe we are to follow Proverbs 3:5-6, wouldn't God be overseeing every decision we make?
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#50
seems like here they were given a pass.
It's better than being stoned to death. I wouldn't call it a "pass".... I don't know how you can sit there and downplay the consequences.
Think about it. Put yourself in the position of a young man subject to this.

- Her father can now make you marry her.... and you owe him 50 sheckles of silver. If you're not a skilled laborer, that's about 5 YEARS OF LABOR. Hope you like her personality as much as you liked using her body!

-OR her father might be mad at you instead and REFUSE to let you marry her EVER... or let you see her again! Hope you didn't like her very much, because she's gone now!

Deut22 is not prescribing men to go out and seduce the woman they want to marry. That's stupid; and this law was there to deter men from doing something stupid.
 

JohnB

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#51
It's better than being stoned to death. I wouldn't call it a "pass".... I don't know how you can sit there and downplay the consequences.
Think about it. Put yourself in the position of a young man subject to this.

- Her father can now make you marry her.... and you owe him 50 sheckles of silver. If you're not a skilled laborer, that's about 5 YEARS OF LABOR. Hope you like her personality as much as you liked using her body!

-OR her father might be mad at you instead and REFUSE to let you marry her EVER... or let you see her again! Hope you didn't like her very much, because she's gone now!

Deut22 is not prescribing men to go out and seduce the woman they want to marry. That's stupid; and this law was there to deter men from doing something stupid.
it does give grace to the single people who do have sex outside of marriage, they are not put to death, like other sex sins. On the payment.....do we adjust that for inflation over the last 3000 years? LOL
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#52
To be fair, the Bible doesn't record Jonah repented. We have no idea if he eventually does or not.
We see Jonah repenting, clearly, in Jonah 2:1-10
We also see God acting to accept his repentance.

The confusion may come because Jonah got upset again, about a different but related issue, in Chapter 4.

The Storyline:
1.) God calls Jonah to preach to Nineveh.

- Please note, God does not tell Jonah he has to love them, he just tells Jonah to go and preach the message.
- Liking the Ninevites was not a requirement.
2.) Jonah doesn't want to preach to Nineveh and give them an opportunity to repent. He refuses.
3.) God punishes Jonah for this refusal.
4.) Jonah, in chapter 2, repents, and turns back to God, and becomes willing to finish his calling.
5.) We see God accepting his repentance (his change of heart and direction) by taking him out of the fish, and putting him back on task.
6.) Jonah preaches to Nineveh.
7. The Ninevites believe the message, surprisingly, and they repent.
8. Because they repent, God spares them.
9. Because God spares them, Jonah is upset.
10. This is the second time Jonah is upset, and he's upset about something slightly different.

- In the first instance, Jonah simply refused to obey his calling, because he did not want to preach to Nineveh.
- Why? We find out in Chapter 4 he was afraid God might forgive them... and Jonah hated them. Nineveh was the capital of the Assyrian Empire, and they were unspeakably cruel. They were enemies of Israel, and they were the most cruel people on the earth at that time. They would slaughter people just to create terror, they would pile up the skulls of the slain at the gates of their cities in huge piles, they would hang the slain on the walls of the city so the birds could eat them... they were fiendish. They were monsters, who conquered all the nations through sheer terror. It's very possible Jonah had seem some of their terror first hand, up close.
- So Jonah refused to preach to them, God punished him, and then Jonah repented and preached to Nineveh.
- Jonah obeyed, and preached to Nineveh, possibly hoping they would fail to repent. I mean, it's possible he didn't even expect to live, they were very cruel people. But whatever the outcome, Jonah chose to obey God, and do what he was told.
- Then the Assyrians really DID repent... they did NOT kill Jonah for the message, and they DID repent. How could Jonah even live with himself? He'd probably seen the Assyrians slaughter people, maybe his own friends and relatives... the Assyrians were butchers. They ruled the whole world through fear and terror, and they were HATED BY ALL PEOPLE... and Jonah had just helped them to repent and be rescued from divine retribution. He was torn apart inside. He was aching and torn apart to have saved his cruel and wicked enemies.
- So now, Jonah is upset a second time. He isn't refusing to DO anything in particular, but he's just very angry in his heart. He's angry at God for saving Nineveh. He's so angry, and hurt, and confused, because he feels he's betrayed his people... so he asks God to kill him.
- It does not say Jonah repents of this... but I think it's implied.
11. CONCLUSION:
a.) There are two separate times when Jonah gets upset, and turns against God's plans.
b.) He clearly repents of the first instance.
c.) For the second instance, we do not see any repentance specifically stated... but I think it's implied.
d.) I think repentance of the second instance is implied, because God is gently talking to Jonah, explaining things to him like a child that he loves. This gentle care and explanation, so that Jonah can understand better, is an implication that Jonah would respond, and God is gently helping him so that he can. If Jonah was entirely cold hearted, and would never repent or soften his heart... God would have killed him, instead of babying him, and helping him through his pain and anger.


The Assyrians were very very bad, and Jonah had a lot going on in his heart.
The story is a lot deeper than the 4 short chapters we're given.

.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#53
it does give grace to the single people who do have sex outside of marriage, they are not put to death, like other sex sins.
It does; and there isn't the same command to "remove them from among you", as in adultery.

But the NT is still not prescribing that you go out and give into your desires as a matter of course. It's true that some people can't control their desire; and if that's true, they should marry.... but regardless of whether you can control your desire, you can control your actions; and this verse is not an excuse not to get married first.

The problem with your "affection", or really "physical displays of affection" in a dating scenario is that there is an exceedingly high chance that it will distort your judgement, and -more importantly- the judgement of the person you are being "affectionate" with; and cause a stumbling block. It's sowing into the flesh at a time when it's very important to be sowing into the spirit and it you don't have to look very hard to find places where it reaps destruction.

On the payment.....do we adjust that for inflation over the last 3000 years? LOL
Your minimum wage in CA, like ours in NY is $15 and some change. Over 5 years that works out to be.... >$156,000.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#54
His actions show he never repented, he was angry to the end.


There is no scripture that supports what you are saying ….

I can only assume you were there ….which would make rather old.

Or

You received revelation from God.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#55
There is no scripture that supports what you are saying ….

I can only assume you were there ….which would make rather old.

Or

You received revelation from God.
the story ends with him still angry.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#56
It does; and there isn't the same command to "remove them from among you", as in adultery.

But the NT is still not prescribing that you go out and give into your desires as a matter of course. It's true that some people can't control their desire; and if that's true, they should marry.... but regardless of whether you can control your desire, you can control your actions; and this verse is not an excuse not to get married first.

The problem with your "affection", or really "physical displays of affection" in a dating scenario is that there is an exceedingly high chance that it will distort your judgement, and -more importantly- the judgement of the person you are being "affectionate" with; and cause a stumbling block. It's sowing into the flesh at a time when it's very important to be sowing into the spirit and it you don't have to look very hard to find places where it reaps destruction.


Your minimum wage in CA, like ours in NY is $15 and some change. Over 5 years that works out to be.... >$156,000.
I agree with the adultery. I find it very interesting the church says almost nothing about divorce and remarriage. yet they hammer singles about fornication to the point if you even think about sex you have sinned.

On showing affection. Not everyone has the same desires for affection. One person might have a strong desire for affection. If you marry someone with almost no desire for affection, you're asking for trouble. It will be a very sad marriage. You can have a loveless marriage. many arraigned marriages were loveless. god warned kings not to marry for power or gains.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#58
On showing affection. Not everyone has the same desires for affection. One person might have a strong desire for affection. If you marry someone with almost no desire for affection, you're asking for trouble. It will be a very sad marriage. You can have a loveless marriage.
This is true- but it should not be true for Christian people at all. If one spouse isn't concerning themself with the other, there's really no point in getting married to begin with.
many arraigned marriages were loveless.
Many are loveless regardless of outside arrangement. I have found that there are "churches" that match-make in a really creepy way, though... trying to engineer the social structure of their church when they should probably be spending more time in the word. Cults will be cults, I guess. With respect to arranged marriages, I think there is a right way, and a wrong way... and people aren't smart enough to do it the right way anymore.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#59
So many times Christians think god will lead them to their spouse. There is nothing in the bible to support this. In fact god makes it clear you decide who you marry.

"This is what the LORD commands for Zelophehad’s daughters: They may marry anyone they please as long as they marry within their father’s tribal clan" Numbers 36:6

A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:39
I fully agree with your estimation. Biblical guidelines regarding prospective spouses are provided. In the end, the decision is left to the individuals contemplating marriage.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#60
That is just false doctrine ---and your worldly opinion ------your reading scripture through the wrong lens -----your doing what your Thread Title says -------

I find it very sad when Christians put their opinions over scripture
Actually, it appears that @JohnB is correct. God tells Jonah to go to Ninevah and he goes in the opposite direction. Very angry at God, no repentance noted in the book of Jonah.