I hold these truths to be self evident....

[Chopsui101]

My beliefs is that....

The dead stay dead. No souls, spirits, no looking down from heaven, no better place. They are dead in the ground until Jesus comes and raises the dead up first and takes them up to heaven.

No trinity, there is no trinity, there might be three in one, but 1 isn't three. Why would Jesus pray to himself, if Jesus is God there would be no need to pray. And why would God bless himself with himself...as when God blessed Jesus with the holy spirit. So three might form 1, but 1 doesn't form 3. Like the US government, the 3 branches form the government. But God is the head, like the president is the head.

Salvation isn't permanent. Once saved you aren't always saved and you can go astray. You can turn from God even after baptism or if you have at one time excepted him into your heart.

Gluttony is a sin. And you should be sound in mind and body.

Spirits souls, demons are a rare occurrence and most sightings are just peoples superstition that might allow a demon or something to get in by their fear or superstition....

God allows you to choose your own destination. There is no such thing as pre destination. The way God knows, is that he knows you so well he knows what you will pick based on how you are made up. But there is no such thing as pre destination, which takes away personal guilt if you have pre destination.

The Sabbath is the day that you should go to Church. Not because it matters, but why people go to church on Sunday. It was a day set up by the Pope to show people he was God's voice on earth.

 

[carpetmanswife]

ok...............

 

[MahogonySnail]

The Sabbath is the day that you should go to Church. Not because it matters, but why people go to church on Sunday. It was a day set up by the Pope to show people he was God's voice on earth.

It's amazing how SDA have re-written history to suit their own purposes.
I thought it was the Emperor Constantine? Not the Pope.

In any case, scripture and early church writings written before Constantine or the Pope ever changed anything to Sunday, show that christians were already going to Church on the Lord's Day, Sunday, NOT the Sabbath. Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:1-2



Didache, between 80 and 140 AD

"But every Lord’s Day, gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, so that you sacrifice may be pure.”
​

Tertullian, about 197 AD

“We devote Sunday to rejoicing for a far different reason than sun worship. ... Others ... suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians ... because we make Sunday a day of festivity.”
“Just as the abolition of fleshly circumcision and of the old Law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.”
​

 

[Thaddaeus]

My beliefs is that....

The dead stay dead. No souls, spirits, no looking down from heaven, no better place. They are dead in the ground until Jesus comes and raises the dead up first and takes them up to heaven.

No trinity, there is no trinity, there might be three in one, but 1 isn't three. Why would Jesus pray to himself, if Jesus is God there would be no need to pray. And why would God bless himself with himself...as when God blessed Jesus with the holy spirit. So three might form 1, but 1 doesn't form 3. Like the US government, the 3 branches form the government. But God is the head, like the president is the head.

Salvation isn't permanent. Once saved you aren't always saved and you can go astray. You can turn from God even after baptism or if you have at one time excepted him into your heart.

Gluttony is a sin. And you should be sound in mind and body.

Spirits souls, demons are a rare occurrence and most sightings are just peoples superstition that might allow a demon or something to get in by their fear or superstition....

God allows you to choose your own destination. There is no such thing as pre destination. The way God knows, is that he knows you so well he knows what you will pick based on how you are made up. But there is no such thing as pre destination, which takes away personal guilt if you have pre destination.

The Sabbath is the day that you should go to Church. Not because it matters, but why people go to church on Sunday. It was a day set up by the Pope to show people he was God's voice on earth.

well hold this truth






Heb 1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Heb 1:2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;Heb 1:4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.Heb 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?Heb 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Heb 1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.Heb 1:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Heb 1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.Heb 1:10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

[LeoneXIII]

My beliefs is that....

The dead stay dead. No souls, spirits, no looking down from heaven, no better place. They are dead in the ground until Jesus comes and raises the dead up first and takes them up to heaven.

Care to provide justification for this? You come on here and say "I hold these truths to be self-evident," but it's not really self evident at all. You make a series of statements, and provide no justification for them, no basis for their self-evidence.

No trinity, there is no trinity, there might be three in one, but 1 isn't three. Why would Jesus pray to himself, if Jesus is God there would be no need to pray. And why would God bless himself with himself...as when God blessed Jesus with the holy spirit. So three might form 1, but 1 doesn't form 3. Like the US government, the 3 branches form the government. But God is the head, like the president is the head.

This does not follow orthodox Christian thought. It also does not make sense in terms of the nature of God. We know from Scripture that God is Love itself, and love must have both a giver and a recipient. Before all was created, there was no object of God's love. Therefore, from eternity, His Word was begotten. The love between the two persons of the Father and the Son is so profound that from eternity it gives rise to another person, the Holy Spirit. If God is love, then this is necessary. The Word of God made all of creation, including man, and when man fell from the friendship of God, the Word entered into the world in human form to remake it, to recreate it.

Salvation isn't permanent. Once saved you aren't always saved and you can go astray. You can turn from God even after baptism or if you have at one time excepted him into your heart.

I think the problem with the thought that "once saved, always saved," is that we are confusing the words "redemption" and "salvation," as well as when these things occurred. All men are redeemed--including non-believers, since redemption was accomplished on the Cross. Salvation is something that, as Paul says, we attain at the moment of our first believing, we must work out with fear and trembling, and that we have hope of attaining in the world to come. It is both a past, present, and future reality. It is something that we can lose, and it is something that we can attain--but only through the Grace of God. Faith must come by grace, and salvation comes through Faith and is manifested through the works done in Faith. No objection to your thinking here, just saying that the terminology against which you argue is faulty to begin with.

Gluttony is a sin. And you should be sound in mind and body.

Yes. No objection here. Not sure what this has to do with anything, though.

Spirits souls, demons are a rare occurrence and most sightings are just peoples superstition that might allow a demon or something to get in by their fear or superstition....

C.S. Lewis once said that the devil's greatest trick was convincing people that he didn't exist. Good luck with that one.

God allows you to choose your own destination. There is no such thing as pre destination. The way God knows, is that he knows you so well he knows what you will pick based on how you are made up. But there is no such thing as pre destination, which takes away personal guilt if you have pre destination.

Yes and no. Strict Calvinistic predestination interferes with Free Will, which we are given by virtue of our being made in the image and likeness of God. However, God knows what we will choose. Since he is fully actualized and therefore holds the fullness of knowledge of all things, he also knows what would have happened if we didn't choose what we chose--and this we cannot fully comprehend, since we are finite beings existing in time.

The Sabbath is the day that you should go to Church. Not because it matters, but why people go to church on Sunday. It was a day set up by the Pope to show people he was God's voice on earth.

Proof, please? The Book of Acts says that the Apostles gathered together on the first day of the week, and the Didache and other first-century sources show that the early Church worshipped on Sunday. People go to Church on Sunday to honor the Resurrection, the central truth of the Christian faith. It was not a "day set up by the Pope," and you will not find a serious, scholarly historical source that says that it was.

 

[Baptistrw]

Salvation isn't permanent. Once saved you aren't always saved and you can go astray. You can turn from God even after baptism or if you have at one time excepted him into your heart.

So how long does eternal or everlasting life last?

 

[roaringkitten]

Chop, by faith are we saved.....Not of ourselves. Read my signature. No good works we do on earth MERITS us salvation, but by trusting in Jesus as the Savior. God keeps us, but we can become disobedient children!

 

[roaringkitten]

Here is an example verse:


"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5

Here is what the Word says of "works of righteousness":

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES ARE AS FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” Isaiah 64:60

If our righteous works are as filthy rags(in comparison to God's Holiness and perfection) then what does a SLIGHT deviant of good works look like? Something really bad! Based upon one declaring that one must maintain good works to remain saved, any pitfall at all must mean they lose salvation. As God sees ALL sin as SIN! Even the slightest hint of it!

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Romans 3:23-28

It just boggles me why so many cannot understand the simple gospel. We are the sinners, Jesus is the Savior!

 

[Chopsui101]

So how long does eternal or everlasting life last?

i ment in your life time. You can be baptized when you are 20...but if you turn from the religion when you are 40 and die when you are 45 you aren't saved....because you turned...unless you came back between then....

 

[Baptistrw]

i ment in your life time. You can be baptized when you are 20...but if you turn from the religion when you are 40 and die when you are 45 you aren't saved....because you turned...unless you came back between then....

That doesn't mean someone lost their salvation, that means they were NEVER saved to begin with. They were the soil sowed on stony ground.

 

[Chopsui101]

That doesn't mean someone lost their salvation, that means they were NEVER saved to begin with. They were the soil sowed on stony ground.

so if you plant a flower in the stony ground, build a house on the stand then really you never planted the flower or built the house....that makes no sense to me

 

[Baptistrw]

so if you plant a flower in the stony ground, build a house on the stand then really you never planted the flower or built the house....that makes no sense to me

Because you don't understand the Bible. People can profess to be Christians and even show some life, and not be true converts, as that parable is saying.

 

[imoss]

so if you plant a flower in the stony ground, build a house on the stand then really you never planted the flower or built the house....that makes no sense to me

HUH... have you read the new testament Chopsui? then you would understand what Baptisrw is talking about...

 

[Sinnner]

You can lose your salvation, I was saved when I was a teenager and I turned away from God for a long time. My salvation was gone, I knew in my heart that if I had died at that moment that I was going to hell! I have read the new testament also. To think that you can't loose your salvation is not right and teaching it has to border on sin, you are trying to give Christians a "pass" to do as they please, THIS IS NOT OK!!!!

Let me ask you Baptistrw, Imoss and Roaringkitten, do you believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and what do you think of Joel Osteen's teachings.

 

[Baptistrw]

You can lose your salvation, I was saved when I was a teenager and I turned away from God for a long time. My salvation was gone, I knew in my heart that if I had died at that moment that I was going to hell! I have read the new testament also. To think that you can't loose your salvation is not right and teaching it has to border on sin, you are trying to give Christians a "pass" to do as they please, THIS IS NOT OK!!!!

Let me ask you Baptistrw, Imoss and Roaringkitten, do you believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and what do you think of Joel Osteen's teachings.

You're salvation wasn't gone because you can't lose what you never had. Some people may appear to be Christians and end up walking away, it's not because they lost their salvation, it's because they never had it.. See the parable of the sower in Matthew 13... more specifically the part about the stony soil.. if one supports licentiousness, they aren't saved. The doctrine can be abused by false professors who don't understand it... If one can lose eternal life, then it ain't very eternal! And how can someone be unborn? Good luck trying to explain that. When you disobey your dad he doesn't kick you out, he may discipline you to get you back to the right point, but never disowns you. And if one can get by without it, their not God's child as Hebrews 12 says. I think you lack a grasp of what eternal security is. It is not a license to sin. And no I don't believe in the gifts and Osteen is a heretic and a false prophet who preaches a health/wealth and sinless gospel.

 

[roaringkitten]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19

This verse speaks about those who CLAIMED to be a Christian at one point, then somehow down the road, they declare they became something else(ie: athiest, etc)....So many preachers/false prophets today preaching gospel heresy(ie: preaching another gospel not found in the Word)......Many false professing Christians today, based upon their testimonies!

 

[roaringkitten]

Let me ask you Baptistrw, Imoss and Roaringkitten, do you believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and what do you think of Joel Osteen's teachings.?

The Word of God clearly says there are gifts of the Holy Spirit.....Now with Joel Osteen's teachings just look at his statement of faith and compare it to the Word of God....If he preaches a false gospel not found in the Word, I would throw out all his teachings....Its a matter of searching the Scriptures as Jesus commanded us to do!

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

 

[Sinnner]

You're salvation wasn't gone because you can't lose what you never had. Some people may appear to be Christians and end up walking away, it's not because they lost their salvation, it's because they never had it.. See the parable of the sower in Matthew 13... more specifically the part about the stony soil.. if one supports licentiousness, they aren't saved. The doctrine can be abused by false professors who don't understand it... If one can lose eternal life, then it ain't very eternal! And how can someone be unborn? Good luck trying to explain that. When you disobey your dad he doesn't kick you out, he may discipline you to get you back to the right point, but never disowns you. And if one can get by without it, their not God's child as Hebrews 12 says. I think you lack a grasp of what eternal security is. It is not a license to sin. And no I don't believe in the gifts and Osteen is a heretic and a false prophet who preaches a health/wealth and sinless gospel.

So you are saying I was not saved when I was a teen, I was brother, I know I was in my heart I was, and when I wasn't I know I wasn't. A reason that someone would hold on to the teaching that you can not lose your salvation is because they may not be living right. The referencr to eternal life is what we get when we are in heaven. If it was meant for heaven then their would be no point in heaven. Yall are trying to teach me what was taught to you by a preacher, I'm goin off of what I know God has put in my heart. Not believing in the gifts of the Holy Spirit is equil to not inviting God into your church. Joel is a good man.

 

[roaringkitten]

If Joel Osteen is preaching a prosperity gospel(a false gospel) then he is a false teacher and is leading multitudes of people to the lake of fire...I dont take popular opinion polls to guide me in my beliefs, I rely soley on the Word of God....(Isaiah 8:20, Psalm 118:8, Romans 3:4)

 

[Baptistrw]

So you are saying I was not saved when I was a teen, I was brother, I know I was in my heart I was, and when I wasn't I know I wasn't. A reason that someone would hold on to the teaching that you can not lose your salvation is because they may not be living right. The referencr to eternal life is what we get when we are in heaven. If it was meant for heaven then their would be no point in heaven. Yall are trying to teach me what was taught to you by a preacher, I'm goin off of what I know God has put in my heart. Not believing in the gifts of the Holy Spirit is equil to not inviting God into your church. Joel is a good man.

O well if you think you lost your salvation that is obviously the case. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, and when we are in Christ we are apart of the body, and Christ is not gonna amputate parts of His body. Eternal life comes at the moment one places faith in Christ, 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36 (KJV)


Hath is present tense. Not future. Heaven is the place where we go to enjoy the physical presence of God.


As for talking about your heart as you mentioned twice, check this verse out: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)


If you didn't bear fruit of salvation, your wicked heart was lying to you.



Joel may be a good man, but being good don't make someone Godly or a teacher of the Word. I find it humerous none of what you said was backed up by any scriptual evidence.