I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

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Feb 6, 2015
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Good to see you back.
Ah shucks, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

You disappeared for a while after getting slammed on your stupid Catholic views.
Hmmm..... thats interesting, so you do read my stupid posts, or else what you had to say on post #1321 was a total lie. :)

You know, I kinda had a hunch you always did read my posts in their entirety. Knowing this, I can't help but believe the only reason why you don't respond to my posts in full is because you are so dumb-founded by their sheer brilliance, you draw a blank trying to come up with any sort of astute feed-back.
 

Glad to see you licked your wounds and came back for more.
Ha..ha.. you are a real Bob Hope! Ever consider taking up comedy full time? :) Unlike you, I have a life outside of this forum. If you don't beleive it, just take a comparison to my total amount of posts compared to yours in only a couple of months join date differnce between us! Besides, if there were any wounds to lick, (again, never was, never will be) they couldn't have been inflicted by you, cause you don't read my posts! Or do you? :) (yes, sarcasm)
 


Pax Christi
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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I can't help but believe the only reason why you don't respond to my posts in full is because you are so dumb-founded by their sheer brilliance
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18)

I can't help but believe that you won't answer the following (even though I've chased you around the forum with it) is because it backs you, and your "church", right into a theological corner:

You claimed that when Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran, it was simply out of "respect" for Islam and Muslims.

WHY would any true Christian show respect for a religion that is literally leading billions of people to hell?

It's the
same as showing respect to Satanism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, or any other religion that is damning souls!

Would
you kiss the Satanic Bible, Ford? How about the book of Mormon? Would you kiss the Koran?

Will Muslims make it to heaven, Ford? How about Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, Mormons, etc.?


​Still waiting......Mr "brilliance".
 
Sep 16, 2014
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What is interesting is Catholicism teaches we do not receive Salvation by believing that Jesus is God.

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964


16. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.

Its by our deeds we receive Salvation is what the Catholic Church teaches.

John 3:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

I find it amazing that Pope Paul VI would even dare to spit in God's face and teach Salvation is received by our deeds!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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1. By a special grace of God and not of her own doing.
2. Nope, that isn't taught at all. Jesus is our Mediator between Man and God.
3. By a special grace of God and not of her own doing.
4. By a special grace of God and not of her own doing.
A special grace that God forgot to mention in Scripture LOL
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Hmmm..... thats interesting, so you do read my stupid posts, or else what you had to say on post #1321 was a total lie. :)

You know, I kinda had a hunch you always did read my posts in their entirety. Knowing this, I can't help but believe the only reason why you don't respond to my posts in full is because you are so dumb-founded by their sheer brilliance, you draw a blank trying to come up with any sort of astute feed-back.
Watching you get slammed entails reading other people's posts to you. Anyone with any astuteness or true brilliance of mind would be able to figure that one out. You have simply come off here as looking completely clueless.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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Its interesting that the Catholics quote from Pope John Paul II when everybody in the World know he never accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Its Mary who he follows and its Mary who is his god.

Pope John Paul II was never a True Christian.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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I've noticed than whenever you feel you're losing the debate, you come up with some ridiculous excuse and put that person on ignore
Disagreement is normal, and I favor discussion and debate. I won't tolerate hate speech. I have 8 in my ignore list with more contenders waiting in line. Anti-Catholics avoid formal debates because they impose orderly presentation and rules. This forum has no one-on-one debate format. I will debate any one under standard acceptable formats, which may include word limitations. They should be on line somewhere.

I don't need to see post after post of mindless drivel by the Christian Taliban attacking what is dear to me. That is not disagreement, it is not discussion, it's hate speech.

They have little grasp of social decency.

My finger is on that button, but you are a nice guy so Ill give you 2 chances. :)
 
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epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18)

I can't help but believe that you won't answer the following (even though I've chased you around the forum with it) is because it backs you, and your "church", right into a theological corner:

You claimed that when Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran, it was simply out of "respect" for Islam and Muslims.

There is more to it. The Pope was in Iraq, surrounded by Iraqi dignitaries and religious leaders. When anyone receives a gift in Iraq, the custom is to kiss it. It doesn't mean endorsement.
It certainly wouldn’t be that he believes in Islam or believes that Islam is on a par with Christianity. If he believed either of these two things then he (a) wouldn’t be the earthly head of the Christian faith and (b) wouldn’t have approved the publication of Dominus Iesus, which asserts the salvific universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.
Any attempt to represent him as thinking one of those things doesn’t even get out of the gate....

...John Paul II also may not have been attending to the gravity of the false elements in the Quran. Even if he knew them, he may not have been thinking about them and may have acted on the spur of the moment, without fully thinking through his action.
Fortunately, the infallibility of the pope and the indefectibility of the Church do not extend to such actions. A pope is not attempting to make anything remotely like a dogmatic definition in an act of this nature. And so, however misguided the action may have been and however good the motives for it may have been, it would constitute an error that does not touch upon papal infallibility or ecclesial indefectibility.
JP2 And The Quran

...WHY would any true Christian show respect for a religion that is literally leading billions of people to hell?
A better word for "respect a religion" is diplomacy. "Respect" does not mean "accept". And who are you to judge anyone?

same as showing respect to Satanism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, or any other religion that is damning souls!
Calm down. It's not the same, it was a diplomatic meeting in Iraq.

you kiss the Satanic Bible, Ford? How about the book of Mormon? Would you kiss the Koran?

This is a temper tantrum.
Will Muslims make it to heaven, Ford? How about Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, Mormons, etc.?
Ford doesn't know and neither do I, we leave that up to God, some some self appointed authority.


]
 
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Sep 16, 2014
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Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

None are righteous epostle, not me, not you, and not Mary! ALL have sinned and ALL includes me, you, and Mary epostle! Only Jesus was without sin, not me, not you, and not Mary epostle! You flee from debate epostle. You know you are in the wrong because the word ALL does includes Mary.


I guess the Word of God is just drivel to you epostle. All i see is hate in you for the Word of God. You teach the commandments of men as Doctrines from God and call the Truth from God hate speech.

Its you epostle who are full of hate, for the Word of God has proven the Doctrines of the Catholic Church about Mary are false Doctrines.

You cannot debate Mary was without sin epostle because God and His Scriptures says Mary was born a sinner. The ONLY way to try and prove Mary was born without sin is by misinterpreting the Scriptures and by calling God a liar.

The Truth from God is very dear to me epostle and i will never allow the mindless drivel from the Catholic Church to attack my Lord and Savior!

Its hate speech epostle to say Mary was born without sin! Its hate speech epostle to say Mary was our Mediator! Its hate speech epostle to say Mary was assumed into Heaven! Its hate speech towards the Holy Spirit and I for one will never allow it!
 
Dec 10, 2015
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We need to bring the "Gospel of Salvation" to the Catholics instead of arguing with them. How can they see the Truth in the Scriptures you are quoting to the Catholics when they are walking in darkness?

Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior epostle and you too can know the Truth that is in the Scriptures from God.
 

Yet

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Roman emperor Constantine passed an edict in 312 AD halting the persecution of Christians when he came into Rome. The persecution was by the Roman Empire along with pagans.

Now Constantine outlawed paganism but amalgamated much of paganism with Christianity. Born the Catholic Church. Many of the saints went along with the apostasy which became the state religion. The rest of the Christians remained true to the 'gospel once delivered unto the Saints'. This incurred the wrath of the state's only accepted religion. So where pagans once persecuted the ecclesia, now the mixture of pagan and Christianity now persecuted the ecclesia.

Mary worship.
Saint worship.
Relic worship.
Transubstantiation.
The order of nuns derived from Nino.
Pope as God on earth.
Tammuz cross worship.
Etc.. Etc..
All pagan, Babylonian to Pergamon to Rome.
 

Yet

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Jan 4, 2014
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My mistake. Y'all thought I were perfect. Not Nino. Ninus, another name of nimrod. Some how the female Chaldean counterpart. Nun derived from such. Google it. Interesting.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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We need to bring the "Gospel of Salvation" to the Catholics instead of arguing with them. How can they see the Truth in the Scriptures you are quoting to the Catholics when they are walking in darkness?

Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior epostle and you too can know the Truth that is in the Scriptures from God.
Discussions are called arguments in these parts. They are no more going to accept what you have to say than they have accepted what others have said to them. They are firmly ensconced in their RCC idolatry. By the way, welcome to CC! :)

welcome.gif
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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There is more to it. The Pope was in Iraq, surrounded by Iraqi dignitaries and religious leaders. When anyone receives a gift in Iraq, the custom is to kiss it. It doesn't mean endorsement.

I wouldn't care if Mohammed himself was standing there, NO actual Christian would kiss a book that came straight from the mind of the devil. A book that is responsible for the damnation of billions.

Just read how many times believers were commanded to bow down before pagan idols, or statues of Kings, or Pharaohs in the Bible - how it was "customary" to do so. How many true believers did, Epostle?

None.

Hence, do you think Paul, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc., would kiss pagan scriptures?

Never.


A better word for "respect a religion" is diplomacy. "Respect" does not mean "accept". And who are you to judge anyone?
Ford used the word "respect". You can go back to the word games, yet again, but the crux of the matter is, John Paul kissed a satanic book, for the whole world to see. You don't think that caused repercussions? You don't think that in the minds of Catholics, John Paul was sending a signal that the Koran isn't actually the wicked book that it is?

And Christians are to judge wicked behavior:

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." (Ephesians 5:11)

"Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that others may take warning." (1 Timothy 5:20)

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction." (2 Timothy 4:2)

"This witness is true, wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." (Titus 1:13)

"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others, and refute those who oppose it." (Titus 1:9)

Calm down. It's not the same, it was a diplomatic meeting in Iraq.


It's exactly the same as kissing the Satanic Bible, or the book of Mormon, etc. They are all satanic and blasphemous to the actual word of God.

Ford doesn't know and neither do I, we leave that up to God
You and Ford claim to be Christians, so you should know. God has already given the answer to the question:

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus (John 14:6)

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:36)

"I told you that you would die in your sins; If you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." - Jesus (John 8:24)

"He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life." (1 John 5:12)

"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but he that confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)

Do Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. confess Jesus is the Son of God, Epostle? Do they believe and trust in Jesus alone for their salvation?

Then according to God's word, they are dead in their sins, lost, and on their way to an eternity in hell.

It is appalling how little you know of the Scriptures and the Gospel.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Its amazing the Catholics tell us we are not to judge anyone, but yet they judge us all the time.

John 14:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Show me epostle where in the Scriptures does it say we are to go through Mary to come unto the Father? Jesus said only trough Him can we come to the Father. There is no mention of Mary in this verse. Jesus never said I and Mary are the way.

John 6:68-69
[SUP]68 [/SUP] But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
[SUP]69 [/SUP] Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Show me epostle where in the Scriptures does God says we are to go to Mary?

Only God has the Words of Eternal Life, not God and Mary.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,


Show me epostle where in the Scriptures does God say Mary is our Mediator?

There is nothing in the Scriptures to back up Mary as our Mediator.

Nowhere has God ever included Mary in anything He has done our will do!

Its the Catholics who have put Mary equal to God and these Catholics will be punished by God for what they have done.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I will debate any one under standard acceptable formats, which may include word limitations.
We have seen your walls of text, you know. Pages and pages of them, time after time. Putting two of your posts together can exceed the character limit of 20,000 characters per post.
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
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Unlike you, I have a life outside of this forum. If you don't beleive it, just take a comparison to my total amount of posts compared to yours in only a couple of months join date differnce between us!
A lower post count could mean any number of things. Maybe you simply don't speak up often, just hanging around to read, with nothing much to say. Lurking, they call it. You can pretend it means you have a life, I suppose, but I wonder what that really means. Your life could largely consist of playing online games on some other site. Should we consider that to be more of a life, better in the eyes of God, than what Christians are called to do in spreading the gospel?

Besides, if there were any wounds to lick, (again, never was, never will be) they couldn't have been inflicted by you, cause you don't read my posts! Or do you? :)
My goodness, but you are not one to make much sense, are you? If you had wounds to lick, they would have nothing to do with what others are or are not reading. Your inability to get such simple concepts straight does not reflect well on you.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Why would anyone need to read your posts fordman?

At best they are nothing but garbage, at worst they are the teachings of your god Satan.

When will you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and receive Salvation?

John 10:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

You will notice nowhere in this verse is Mary mentioned. Its only through Jesus, not through Jesus and Mary.

You cannot find Salvation in Mary!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Mary, Full of Grace, and Luke 1:28

by Matt Slick
According to The Catholic Encyclopedia (TCE) under the topic of Hail Mary, it says, "Hail (Mary) full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women" embodies the words used by the Angel Gabriel in saluting the Blessed Virgin (Luke, I, 28)." The Roman Catholic Church derives all sorts of teachings concerning Mary from the phrase "full of grace." Two of them are . . .


  1. She was conceived without sin.
    1. " . . . . It was fitting that the mother of him in whom "the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" should herself be "full of grace." She was, by sheer grace, conceived without sin . . . ," (Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 722).
  2. That she was redeemed from conception and was without sin.
    1. "Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin," (CCC, 491).
    2. "From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC, 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life," (CCC, 508).
Catholic.com says that under "Full of Grace" that "These blessings included her role as the New Eve (corresponding to Christ's role as the New Adam), her Immaculate Conception, her spiritual motherhood of all Christians, and her Assumption into heaven." As you can see, Mary is greatly exalted even to the point of having "spiritual motherhood of all Christians", whatever that means.
Also, since she has been so highly exalted, prayer is also offered to Mary. Catholics recite "The Hail Mary" which says, "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen." Prayer should be offered to God alone, not to any creature no matter how blessed, including Mary.
As you can see, a great deal is derived from the phrase, "full of grace." But, does the phrase justify such adoration and doctrinal proclamation? Can the Roman Catholic church rightfully derive so much from so little? In fact, is the phrase "full of grace" used of Mary in the Bible at all? The answers to these questions is "No."
The Bible and "full of grace"

The phrase, "full of grace," in Greek is "plaras karitos," and it occurs in only two places in the New Testament. Neither one is in reference to Mary.

  • "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth," (John 1:14).
  • "And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people," (Acts 6:8).
The first citation refers to Jesus who is obviously full of grace. Jesus is God in flesh, the crucified and risen Lord, who cleanses us from our sins. In the second citation, it is Stephen who is full of grace. We can certainly affirm that Jesus was conceived without sin and remained sinless, but can we conclude this about Stephen as well? Certainly not. The phrase, "full of grace," does not necessitate sinlessness by virtue of its use. In Stephen's case it signifies that he was "full of the Spirit and of wisdom" along with faith and the Holy Spirit (Acts 6:3, 5). But Stephen was a sinner. Nevertheless, where does the phrase "full of grace" come from regarding Mary?
The Latin Vulgate and other translations

The Latin Vulgate is the Latin translation of the Bible done by St. Jerome in the fourth century. It is here in Luke 1:28 that is found the unfortunate Latin translation which says, "ave gratia plena," "Hail full of grace." Remember, the New Testament was written in Greek, not Latin, but the Roman Church has derived its doctrine from the Latin translation, not the Greek original. Therefore, it constructed its doctrine on a false translation. Of course, it cannot correct itself since so much is invested in the worship, adoration, and prayer to Mary in the Roman Catholic Church and to recant of this false teaching would greatly lessen its credibility. Unfortunately, this means that millions of Catholics will continue to look to Mary for help, not Christ who is truly full of grace.
So what do the other translations say about Luke 1:28? Let's find out.

  • The Nestle Aland 26th edition, Greek New Testament Interlinear, "having gone into her he said rejoice one having been favored, the master is with you."
  • The NRSV English Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament, "And he came to her and said, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
  • American Standard Version, "And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee."
  • English Standard Version, "And he came to her and said, Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!
  • Today's English Version, '"The angel came to her and said, “Peace be with you! The Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you!”
  • King James Version, "And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
  • New American Standard Bible, "And coming in, he said to her, Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.
  • New International Version, "The angel went to her and said, Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.
  • New King James Version, "And having come in, the angel said to her, Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!"
  • Revised Standard Version, "And he came to her and said, 'Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!'
  • New Revised Standard Version, "And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
  • The New Century Version, "The angel came to her and said, “Greetings! The Lord has blessed you and is with you.”
  • New Living Translation, "Gabriel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!'”
  • The Cambridge Paragraph Bible, And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, 'thou that art 'highly favoured, 'the Lord is with thee: 'blessed art thou among women.'"
  • The Holman Christian Standard Bible, "And the angel came to her and said, “Rejoice, favored woman! The Lord is with you."
  • International Standard Version, '"The angel'' came to her and said, “'Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you!"
What does the Greek say here for "highly favored one? It is the single Greek word, kexaritomena, and means highly favored, make accepted, make graceful, etc. It does not mean "full of grace" which is "plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace) in the Greek.

  • 5923 χαριτόω (charitoō): vb., Str 5487, TDNT 9.372, LN 88.66 show kindness graciously give, freely give (Eph 1:6), as a passive participle, subst., “one highly favored.”1
  • 5487 χαριτόω [charitoo /khar·ee·to·o/] v. From 5485, TDNT 9:372, TDNTA 1298, GK 5923, Two occurrences, AV translates as “be highly favoured” once, and “make accepted” once. 1 to make graceful. 1a charming, lovely, agreeable. 2 to peruse with grace, compass with favour. 3 to honour with blessings.2
Therefore, we conclude that the Roman Catholic Church has manufactured far too much doctrine concerning Mary out of the erroneous translation of the Latin Vulgate Bible and that the RCC needs to recant its false teaching concerning Mary.

Conclusion


Mary was a very blessed woman. She was graced with the privilege of being able to bear the Son of God. We should never forget her high privilege in this respect. However, we must not elevate her to a level beyond that which is prescribed in Scripture. To do so is to be in error, the very error that is taught in the Roman Catholic Church.

We urge Roman Catholics not look to Mary. Instead, they should look to Jesus alone. He alone is the sinless one, the perfect one, the Lord, the mediator, the forgiver of our sins. It is He alone to whom we should appeal and trust for the forgiveness of our sins. We should not look to any creature no matter how blessed that creature may be.

Mary was a very blessed woman. She was graced with the privilege of being able to bear the Son of God. We should never forget her high privilege in this respect. However, we must not elevate her to a level beyond that which is prescribed in Scripture. To do so is to be in error, the very error that is taught in the Roman Catholic Church.
We urge Roman Catholics not look to Mary. Instead, they should look to Jesus alone. He alone is the sinless one, the perfect one, the Lord, the mediator, the forgiver of our sins. It is He alone to whom we should appeal and trust for the forgiveness of our sins. We should not look to any creature no matter how blessed that creature may be.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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The Catholics in trying to appease those who reject Jesus, has made Mary equal to God.

Its Mary the Catholics go to for everything they want. Its Mary who can and will override what God says. The Catholics actually believe God has to do everything Mary says because Mary is the Mother of God and everybody knows you have to obey your Mother.

If God says no to the Catholics, they know they can go to Mary who will make God say yes.
 
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