If homosexuality is a sin, then why didn't Jesus say anything about it?

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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No, I didn't look at the link, but now I just did, and I really don't want to have to wade through that to try to figure out what you're meaning to say.
what I'm trying to say is that it's not clear whether Paul is saying that females were also burning in desire for other females, or if Paul has some other activity that these females were engaging in that he considers leaving their natural function.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Even is not a good translation of that word (τέ) in Romans 1:26. Both is a better translation because it ties in with verse 27 (For both females ... and males...)

G5037 τέ te (teh') prt.
1. both or also
No, I didn't look at the link, but now I just did, and I really don't want to have to wade through that to try to figure out what you're meaning to say.
And seriously man, and I mean this gently, but why do you offer a better translation, being critical of another translation, based on Greek stuff if you're not willing to look at something hardcore, some serious Greek scholarship?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I've noticed this pattern coming up frequently when people want to justify keeping Old Testament rules.

Jesus and the father are one. Therefore Jesus and the father are the same in every respect. Moreover Jesus and yhwh are the same in every respect. yhwh is the speaker in The Book of Leviticus, therefore every commandment in The Book of Leviticus is given by Jesus, when Jesus says keep my Commandments he's referring to the Book of Leviticus.

I believe that Jesus is God, and I believe that Jesus and the father are one.

But saying that Jesus and yhwh are identical, the same in every respect, creates problems in my opinion.

One example is the opening of Psalm 110, where
yhwh is speaking to the Messiah.
You ignore what Jesus said.
Matthew 5:17 and 18 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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You ignore what Jesus said.
Matthew 5:17 and 18 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
I don't ignore anything Jesus said.

He said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets, and I believe he did just that.

Important note, it's law and Prophets, not prophecies.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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what I'm trying to say is that it's not clear whether Paul is saying that females were also burning in desire for other females, or if Paul has some other activity that these females were engaging in that he considers leaving their natural function.
Realistically I only see two options: lesbianism or bestiality. If you want to believe the former is OK with GOD, that will be for you to answer for.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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And seriously man, and I mean this gently, but why do you offer a better translation, being critical of another translation, based on Greek stuff if you're not willing to look at something hardcore, some serious Greek scholarship?
Because I'm really not that interested in the issue. I can offer my opinion without having to devote my life to it.
 
D

DianeM1965

Guest
Now I understand. You are right ... always and in all ways. Anyone who has a different view is wrong ... always and in all ways. I get it. I find it sad, but I do get it. I am not here to argue about this. I dont believe homosexuals are perverts who choose this. I believe they are attracted to the same sex (dont want to be but are). I am attracted to the opposite sex ... so I guess I am lucky. But I dont get on the back of their misfortune and call them perverts, or damn them to Hell. I think I will let God be the judge of all of these things and I suspect, sexuality (consensual between two adults/no harm to each other) will not be the biggest thing on his list.
Perhaps on his list will be things like murder, rape, cheating, lying, stealing, hurting others, etc., etc. Have a good day all.
When you say that it isn't the biggest sin on the list you are wrong. Sin is sin. There isn't a grading system that says one sin is worse than another. His word tells us that it is an abomination. Those are the words of the Lord God. It is a choice they choose. I didn't read here at all in the comments of anyone damning them to hell. I don't believe anyone here thought that either. Pray for the people you know who are homosexuals. Pray their eyes be opened. God bless you.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Realistically I only see two options: lesbianism or bestiality. If you want to believe the former is OK with GOD, that will be for you to answer for.
well, of course every interpretation of every passage of scripture is something we can be judged for, to whatever extent God judges us for interpreting scripture.

Given that there is some degree of ambiguity in all human language, I assume that God will be lenient when judging us.
and of course the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth.

I don't know that the only two possibilities are lesbianism and bestiality. we tend to assume in our modern Western Christian thinking that any possible sexual activity between a married man and woman are okay. But I'm not sure that the Bible teaches that.

But just for the sake of discussion, going with the idea that Paul is talking about beastiality, then Romans 1 wouldn't be talking about female homosexuality.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Because I'm really not that interested in the issue. I can offer my opinion without having to devote my life to it.
That's cool! It's just that you brought up a Greek word and its definition, and talked about better translations, so I thought you were into it.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I don't ignore anything Jesus said.

He said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets, and I believe he did just that.

Important note, it's law and Prophets, not prophecies.
????????
How do you seperate what the prophets say from the prophets? Keep in mind in Biblical times a prophet that had a prophecy fail was killed.

So your ignorance is showing through.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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well, of course every interpretation of every passage of scripture is something we can be judged for, to whatever extent God judges us for interpreting scripture.

Given that there is some degree of ambiguity in all human language, I assume that God will be lenient when judging us.
and of course the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth.

I don't know that the only two possibilities are lesbianism and bestiality. we tend to assume in our modern Western Christian thinking that any possible sexual activity between a married man and woman are okay. But I'm not sure that the Bible teaches that.

But just for the sake of discussion, going with the idea that Paul is talking about beastiality, then Romans 1 wouldn't be talking about female homosexuality.
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
You are deluded!!
 

MrH59

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2018
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Beech Island SC
Now I understand. You are right ... always and in all ways. Anyone who has a different view is wrong ... always and in all ways. I get it. I find it sad, but I do get it. I am not here to argue about this. I dont believe homosexuals are perverts who choose this. I believe they are attracted to the same sex (dont want to be but are). I am attracted to the opposite sex ... so I guess I am lucky. But I dont get on the back of their misfortune and call them perverts, or damn them to Hell. I think I will let God be the judge of all of these things and I suspect, sexuality (consensual between two adults/no harm to each other) will not be the biggest thing on his list.
Perhaps on his list will be things like murder, rape, cheating, lying, stealing, hurting others, etc., etc. Have a good day all.
Blanch, I'm not going to defend or accuse anyone or anything. I just wanted to encourage you. if you want a discussion on a subject you probably wont find it here. I don't want you to go away angry and upset. this forum has really got some good people. I learned the hard way. I simply posted a inspirational quote from something I had read and I got attacked, seriously. so don't take it personal. I think they should change it to bible debate instead of bible discussion.. I tend to stay away but I just thought today I would browse and see whats up and I ran across your post. I stick to the new member, the family, the prayer request and the miscellaneous forums. Nothing but love, yours in Christ. Mike
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Yes I understand what you're saying but everyone struggles with some sort of addiction. Maybe some we stay away from and I know mine and stay away from what I can. But I can say I'm not going to get angry over and over but it's probably going to happen again. That doesn't really have to do with my salvation since I already know I'm saved but also that I should repent bc the behavior is wrong and want to please God.

But if we go to someone who is homosexual and say you're sinning or whatever they're not going to care anyways. Even worse we might actually be pulling them away from God. Wouldn't it make more sense to just preach the word of God and if they ask specifically about their lifestyle then addressing it in a kind way but letting them know it's a sin? Or even just letting them come to the conclusion themselves since they probably don't live under a rock and are aware of what Christians think? Is it really up to us to let everyone know their sin? I have a hard enough time keeping up with my own.
I do not agree everyone struggles with some kind of addiction. There are people who desire the sin more than hating it in their life.

The Bible says there is pleasure in sin but for a season. Christians do not wake up with an addiction, they have been disobedient and have engaged in doing the same sin over and over that it has a strong hold on them. Gal 5 talks about


"Being entangled with the yoke of bondage. " this can too apply . Anger is an emotion that can be right or wrong that is not nessarliy an addiction . beating your wife and kids is an addiction? That is a concept of misplaced blame. In Luke 4 : 18 Jesus came to set us free , not to live with an addiction. We need to bring our heart to the Lord and give it to HIM and ask HIM to set us free from what ever is a strong hold in our life. HE will do it.

Also I must point out the false concept you made respectfully:

But if we go to someone who is homosexual and say you're sinning or whatever they're not going to care anyways. Even worse we might actually be pulling them away from God.

That is not true . If they are as you say homosexual they are already as far as they can be from God. Telling the truth in love is LOVE. Drunkers, liers, sexually perverse living etc... will NOT ENTER IN TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

So if a person think that they have to live the whole life in sexual sin, drunkerness , etc... that is a lie from the pit of Hell and Unbiblical . Jesus can set them free, everyday homosexuls and drunkers, adulters, drug addicts etc.. are set free by the Power of God Through the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only reason why it has not happen in a person life is:

1. The love the sin more than hating it
2. They have not sought God and surrender that area of their Heart to the Lord.
3. They are not saved
4. They have not separated from the influences of the sin.
5. They do not know the word of God and do not have faith in it.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Would you be able to point us to any scriptures which support this view that we sin if we are internally attracted to someone. I find my eyes automatically focusing on beautiful women as I drive along in my car, but I have to make a deliberate effort to look away.
By the time I look away I have already committed the sin of admiring the beauty of the woman so have I sinned.

I mean we are talking about a second or two, my old sinful nature is drawn towards sin but I fight it all the time. I hope that I'm forgiven for the short moments where I failed to gain full control of my members.

I think Paul described our condition in Romans 7:23 when He said, "but I see another law in my members, Waring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

It sounds like we are in a perpetual war against the law of sin which is in our members and the war will continue until we die.
it is not a sin to notices awomen who is attractive . That is what we are created to see. it is only sin when you lust or have sexual desires of the women you see and be a willful partispant to the temptation. We make God unreasonable , this is what Eve didf when she spoke to the Serpant . it was not a sin to touch it, or even look at the tree. it was a sin to eat of it.

it is not a sin to be tempted Jesus was tempted HE did not sin. it is not a sin to admire a beautiful women. If that was the case God would not have made her that way.

I see women all the time and very attractive too. Wow look at her Ok, no what next? that is the differnce . How do I view women in the church ? Who are attractive? a wife, and sister , and mother and daughter, or from a lust induced context? The latter is a choice you have to willfully enage in the perversion which is sin.
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
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Blanch, I'm not going to defend or accuse anyone or anything. I just wanted to encourage you. if you want a discussion on a subject you probably wont find it here. I don't want you to go away angry and upset. this forum has really got some good people. I learned the hard way. I simply posted a inspirational quote from something I had read and I got attacked, seriously. so don't take it personal. I think they should change it to bible debate instead of bible discussion.. I tend to stay away but I just thought today I would browse and see whats up and I ran across your post. I stick to the new member, the family, the prayer request and the miscellaneous forums. Nothing but love, yours in Christ. Mike
Thank you, Mike for your kind words. I think you are right. And this was the wrong issue to bring up. I only brought it up because it seems to be a sin like no other ... so much worse ... and the people who commit it, are attacked pretty badly in our society. I personally know of a man that was beaten almost to death. That got me thinking and asking why? Why can't we treat them like any other sinner. I am sure I am a sinner, though I try not to, but my sins are not "visible" so unless I tell you, you dont know it. I hope this makes sense. Just got off a long shift and am very tired. Yeah, the Bible debate should be bible discussion.
Yeah, I have seen some really thoughtful and loving posts here, so Im hoping. Thanks again so much. I feel better now.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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I've noticed this pattern coming up frequently when people want to justify keeping Old Testament rules.

Jesus and the father are one. Therefore Jesus and the father are the same in every respect. Moreover Jesus and yhwh are the same in every respect. yhwh is the speaker in The Book of Leviticus, therefore every commandment in The Book of Leviticus is given by Jesus, when Jesus says keep my Commandments he's referring to the Book of Leviticus.

I believe that Jesus is God, and I believe that Jesus and the father are one.

But saying that Jesus and yhwh are identical, the same in every respect, creates problems in my opinion.

One example is the opening of Psalm 110, where
yhwh is speaking to the Messiah.
Hello Dan_473,

I tell you that, if you attempt to keep the works of the law, it will keep you out of the kingdom of heaven. We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, completely and fully and not by anything that we could do, nor is there anything that need to be added.

The "works" that God wants us to keep is not referring to the Levitical laws, for no one will be saved by observing the law. Here are the works that God desires:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.' "

"Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

Also, while it is true that Jesus and the Father are one God, they are also individual personalities of that one God. A good example of this would be when Jesus was Baptized and came up out of the water, the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove lit upon Him and the voice of the Father out of heaven said, "this is My Son whom I love, listen to Him." In addition, in Revelation we have the Father sitting on the throne and the Lamb/Jesus coming and taking the scroll out of the Father's right hand. These demonstrate the individual persons which make up God.

But going back to the Levitical Law, if you attempt to keep those things, then you have to keep all of them perfectly every day for the rest of your life. However, you have already failed at that, which means that when you broke even one part of the Law, you are guilty of breaking the whole thing.

Jesus, as a human being, kept the Law perfectly and did so on every believers behalf. He also paid the penalty for sin, not for His own, but for ours. He also took upon Himself God's wrath that we deserve, which is why believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. Therefore, when a person receives Christ they are credited with Christ's righteousness, His fulfillment of the Law and satisfied God's wrath in every believers place. We are like Christ's running around which God sees as perfect because of our faith in Christ.

No believer will enter into the kingdom of God by keeping the Sabbath, abstaining from foods, trying to keep the ten commandments, etc., etc.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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A new way to parent: raising 'theybies'; babies without a gender assignment

“Theybies”: The New Term For Children Of Parents Who Neglect
To Teach Them What Gender They Actually Are.

The latest example of the symptom of America’s ungodliness!
Child neglect and child abuse has a new name.
Are we really surprised? "Thebies" = Unfit parents.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Child neglect and child abuse has a new name.
Are we really surprised? "Thebies" = Unfit parents.
I can imagine a lot of problems with "thebies"

they will try to experiment with their so called "unknown gender" and this will most likely be done with sinning to find out, which could easily be solved by telling them their exact gender from the geico.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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I can imagine a lot of problems with "thebies"

they will try to experiment with their so called "unknown gender" and this will most likely be done with sinning to find out, which could easily be solved by telling them their exact gender from the geico.
We both spelled it wrong. :giggle: Theybies, not Thebies. Imagine when the infants treated as such by unfit parents enter the world.
How will they respond when they're addressed by gender pronouns ? Or, will the world have fallen so far that that isn't happening anymore because those that came before filed lawsuits to make it stop?

We're so much worse than Sodom and Gomorrah was in its day. And in all avenues of its fallenness. Hey, if they can come up with Theybies, "Fallenness" is valid too. ;)
Makes me wonder what's coming when Sodom and Gomorrah warranted God's wrath even then and now our world is so much worse now.