If the earth is smaller than most stars, how is it possible that they fall to earth?

[MattforJesus]

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6.13)

It could go along with this.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Babylon will never have physical dominion again,but her ways are still on earth,which she represents the kingdom of man,and the beast kingdom represents the kingdom of man,so this is Babylon in spirit,for all people that dwelled upon earth through the whole history of mankind either belong to the kingdom of God,or Babylon,the kingdom of man,for she was responsible for all the slain that was upon the earth,which physical Babylon would not be responsible.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

After the 6th trumpet,the world does not repent of their sins,and turn to God,but keep trying to solve their problems,and achieve peace by their own methods,cutting God out of the picture,so God allows the man of sin to rule over them.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

War breaks out in heaven,and the devils are cast to earth,and deceive all people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,then God will put them down.

It is a future event,and one day the devils will be cast to earth to deceive all people who do not love God to follow the beast,for it is the time appointed for God to end this sin business on earth.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

It could have something to do with that.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Bible usually uses Star in place of Angels

Hey BladeRunner,

As I am sure that you are aware, it is the context that would determine what stars are representing as either being literal or symbolic. For example: Right in Revelation 12 we have the woman wearing a crown of twelve stars, which represents the twelve tribes of Israel. Then we have a third of the stars that the dragon sweeps out of heaven and flings to the earth which are symbolic for his angels. Then there are are the seven stars that Jesus holds in his right hand which are the messengers/pastors of the seven churches. And of course there is references to literal stars such as when the sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third at the sounding of the 4th trumpet.

So, it is the context that determines the literal meaning behind the symbolism.

 

[Huckleberry]

I'm the weird one here, because I believe that the stars are actually and literally angels.

Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[MarcR]

I'm the weird one here, because I believe that the stars are actually and literally angels.

Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Not so wierd! You nailed it!

 

[KJV1611]

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Rev 6.13)

Because God is making it abundantly clear that he is not talking about literal stars. The stars are the children of Israel and they're also the untimely figs that were blown off the fig tree prior to the destruction of the fig tree when Jesus came.

Anyone who takes the bible for exactly what it says understands that those stars are not literal stars.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Huckleberry,

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Since it is the context that determines the meaning of whether something is to be interpreted as being symbolic or literal, here in the same verse reference is also made to the sun and moon. Therefore, since the sun and moon are also referred to, then the context would be referring to literal stars, i.e. asteroids, meteorites, comets, etc. For as I mentioned in another post, everything in the heavens, except for the sun and the moon, would be considered as a star to them as they had no scientific classifications between those heavenly bodies as we do today.

In short and to remain consistent within the context, the sun and moon cannot be interpreted literally with the stars being symbolic representing angels. Either the sun, moon and stars would all have to be symbolic or all literal. Not sun and moon literal and then stars symbolic. Do you get what I am saying?

 

[Ahwatukee]

I'm the weird one here, because I believe that the stars are actually and literally angels.

Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Another reason as to why the "stars" in the verse cannot be symbolically referring to angels is that Matt.24:29-31 is the event of the Lord returning to the earth to end the age. Regarding this, according to Rev.12, the war in heaven will have taken place 3 1/2 years prior to the Lord's return to end the age, where Satan and his angels will have already been cast out of heaven and will have been restricted to the earth for that last 3 1/2 years until the Lord comes. Therefore, there would be no angels to fall from heaven, as they would have already previously been cast out.

 

[MarcR]

Another reason as to why the "stars" in the verse cannot be symbolically referring to angels is that Matt.24:29-31 is the event of the Lord returning to the earth to end the age. Regarding this, according to Rev.12, the war in heaven will have taken place 3 1/2 years prior to the Lord's return to end the age, where Satan and his angels will have already been cast out of heaven and will have been restricted to the earth for that last 3 1/2 years until the Lord comes. Therefore, there would be no angels to fall from heaven, as they would have already previously been cast out.

The Greek word ephsan, translated fell can also mean descended.

We see an angel of light descending from heaven with the keys to Hell

At Jesus return He returns with the raptured saints and legions of Angels

 

[Zmouth]

Thanks!

I've never tried on so-jesus-e-deus before and he is asking the right questions on his own, had to at least bring it up. I convinced some people before on this forum.

Why don't you go to the edge of the flat earth and take a picture of it?

After it is written in the scriptures "Prove all things. And hold on to that which is good." You do consider the 'truth' to be good don't you?

And if you want to be scientific about your belief then formulate a falsifiability of your flat earth hypothesis.

 

[Zmouth]

Why don't you figure out the moon landing was a hoax and go from there?

On three of the Apollo landings, 11, 14 & 15, Laser Light Reflectors were left behind for experiments from observatories around the world. These were placed on the moon by hand and aligned with the earth in the sky. As the moon is in a captured rotation, the earth doesn't move in the moon's sky. Lasers are fired toward the three sites on the moon and a reflection is made back to the telescope every time. If you aim the laser at any other part of the moon, nothing comes back. Source

 

[pckts]

On three of the Apollo landings, 11, 14 & 15, Laser Light Reflectors were left behind for experiments from observatories around the world. These were placed on the moon by hand and aligned with the earth in the sky. As the moon is in a captured rotation, the earth doesn't move in the moon's sky. Lasers are fired toward the three sites on the moon and a reflection is made back to the telescope every time. If you aim the laser at any other part of the moon, nothing comes back. Source

So you base your belief the landing occurred on laser light reflectors and the trustworthiness of the people conducting the laser firing tests? Can you conduct these tests yourself, or do you need special lasers only special people have?

Why not consider this easily falsifiable test is false, and look at the footage itself or any other number of topics that disprove the landing occurred.

You want me to take your challenges of flat earth theory seriously, when you believe a man landed on the moon? And you believe this occurred because laser beams we can't use strike reflectors we can't see?

Do more research into what you believe and why you believe it.

I would respond to more of all of your (the CC community) challenges, but it's hard to take people seriously who look at cartoons and believe they are real and I know we won't be getting anywhere productive together. New people I try once or twice, but I know everyone in here.

 

[pckts]

On three of the Apollo landings, 11, 14 & 15, Laser Light Reflectors were left behind for experiments from observatories around the world. These were placed on the moon by hand and aligned with the earth in the sky. As the moon is in a captured rotation, the earth doesn't move in the moon's sky. Lasers are fired toward the three sites on the moon and a reflection is made back to the telescope every time. If you aim the laser at any other part of the moon, nothing comes back. Source

I thought you were arguing that we can tell the reflectors are there based off of experiments. But you are claiming that we can't bounce lasers off of the moon without them?

We have been reflecting lasers off of the moon since 1962.

Heres wikipedia of that experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment

Here is the 1966 article in National Geographic about it:

http://www.anachronresearch.com/Markus/1966NatGeoLasers.pdf

 

[Zmouth]

So you base your belief the landing occurred on laser light reflectors and the trustworthiness of the people conducting the laser firing tests? Can you conduct these tests yourself, or do you need special lasers only special people have?

Why not consider this easily falsifiable test is false, and look at the footage itself or any other number of topics that disprove the landing occurred.

You want me to take your challenges of flat earth theory seriously, when you believe a man landed on the moon? And you believe this occurred because laser beams we can't use strike reflectors we can't see?

Do more research into what you believe and why you believe it.


I would respond to more of all of your (the CC community) challenges, but it's hard to take people seriously who look at cartoons and believe they are real and I know we won't be getting anywhere productive together. New people I try once or twice, but I know everyone in here.

To begin with, the question of whether man landed on the moon or not has absolutely no bearing on the question of whether the earth is a sphere or not.

Can you even provide a flat earth map that has a mileage scale? Of course you can't because that would show that the your hope has no substance.

 

[pckts]

To begin with, the question of whether man landed on the moon or not has absolutely no bearing on the question of whether the earth is a sphere or not.

Can you even provide a flat earth map that has a mileage scale? Of course you can't because that would show that the your hope has no substance.

I can't get you to understand it isn't a sphere while you believe stage productions are outer space travel. I asked you the question to gauge how deceived you are, and start you on the journey of becoming a flat earther by questioning your deceptions one at a time.

Here is an "air map" from 1945 using flight travel times and distances.

Flat earth maps and the azimuthal equidistant projection are mostly identical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection

The ISS is fake too, dig deeper.

And do you believe this is authentic?

[video=youtube;sj6a0Wrrh1g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj6a0Wrrh1g[/video]

 

[Zmouth]

I can't get you to understand it isn't a sphere while you believe stage productions are outer space travel. I asked you the question to gauge how deceived you are, and start you on the journey of becoming a flat earther by questioning your deceptions one at a time.

Here is an "air map" from 1945 using flight travel times and distances.

According to your flat earth map it is approximately 14,500 miles from Cape Town, South America to Sydney, Australia which is only approximately 7,000 miles.
San Fransisco, Ca to New York, NY ( approx. 2,900 miles)

 

[pckts]

According to your flat earth map it is approximately 14,500 miles from Cape Town, South America to Sydney, Australia which is only approximately 7,000 miles.
San Fransisco, Ca to New York, NY ( approx. 2,900 miles)
View attachment 174399

You mean Africa. It's approximately 7,000 miles on your globe map, and it is indeed further on the flat earth map.

This is a debating point between globers and flaters. Why are there no direct flights in the southern hemisphere?

So I will argue that it is indeed further than 7,000 miles between those two points and it is your false globe map that makes you think otherwise, and the massive detours in flights and lack of direct one's prove the flat earth map's validity.

Look it stops in dubui like that as per expedia https://www.expedia.com/Flights-Sea...sortby:price,carrier:&mode=search&paandi=true

Here is your better argument:

Why are these two flights about the same time, but the difference in distance appears to be significant on the flat earth map?

Because the flat earth map is far from perfect and is flawed. I never said it was. You don't have an accurate one either, they are either shaped entirely wrong like a ball or the distortion from the fake ball map makes greenland enormous.

Did you think that takeoff from the moon landing I posted looked authentic? I'm going to stop answering your questions if you don't answer mine. I know you are a lost cause and just looking to attack flat earth and feel above defending your beliefs, but I want to know if you think that looks real so I know who I am talking to.

 

[pckts]

According to your flat earth map it is approximately 14,500 miles from Cape Town, South America to Sydney, Australia which is only approximately 7,000 miles.
San Fransisco, Ca to New York, NY ( approx. 2,900 miles)
View attachment 174399

I can believe it's around 7,000 miles taking into account the flaws of the flat earth map.

 

[Zmouth]

You mean Africa. It's approximately 7,000 miles on your globe map, and it is indeed further on the flat earth map.

This is a debating point between globers and flaters. Why are there no direct flights in the southern hemisphere?

.

Again, you don't even know that you don't know which is the reason you are claiming that there are no direct routes from South Africa to Sydney Austria. Here is a direct flight on Qantas LINK

The reason it makes no sense to you why airlines would go out out of route from ORIGIN to DESTINATION is because you don't have any experience or knowledge in the transportation industry, if you did you would know why and that it has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

 

[pckts]

Again, you don't even know that you don't know which is the reason you are claiming that there are no direct routes from South Africa to Sydney Austria. Here is a direct flight on Qantas LINK

The reason it makes no sense to you why airlines would go out out of route from ORIGIN to DESTINATION is because you don't have any experience or knowledge in the transportation industry, if you did you would know why and that it has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

That link didn't work.

You don't go out of your way like that on commercial flights because it wastes time and money. If you had experience and knowledge in principles like "time is money" and "gas is expensive", you would know this.

Still haven't answered if you thought that moon takeoff was real, if you don't want this to be an equal discussion, I'll have to end it here.

 

[tanakh]

They Dont. The Bible contains many symbols. The Sun Moon and Stars represent Angels, Kings and other important people. When God Judged Egypt and Edom we are told that the Moon and Stars fell from heaven. I think we find no record of it happening literally.