If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.
- Thread starter Jason0047
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Actually, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.
#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.
#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).
#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.
#4. Psalm 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).
#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.
#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.
However, you did not really answer my question. You never really explained to me how it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved. How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
Jesus said,
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. And the servant [of sin] abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever.If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:34-36).
Free from what?
Being a servant of sin.
For Jesus said that he that sins is a slave (servant) of sin.
For the servant of sin shall not abide in the house forever. How do we know this, for sure?
Jesus says elswhere. "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42).
But again, you did not really answer my question. How does dying in unrepentant sin such as lying, lusting, and hating make it okay enough with God to take you home despite such evils? Is God unrighteous? Can God condone a person's sin?
God said in the day you eat thereof you shall die. Did Adam and Eve both die that day? No. They died spiritually and needed to be renewed and saved by God.
As for being born again: Actually, while it is true that a person cannot deny in being born again, we have to actually define what being born again means. It is admitting your sinner and being sorrowful over your sin and accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior with the intention that you do not want to sin against Him anymore. The Spirit will then transform or renew that person's heart and spirit and give them new desires (But their free will is still in existence). However, what follows the new birth? Is it a lifestyle of sin? Or is a life of holiness (Thereby showing that they have been born again and made into the new man?). A great verse that describes the new birth and the fruit that follows it is Ezekiel 36:26-27. For the LORD says,
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."
So here we see God giving a person a new heart and a new spirit and then the LORD Himself places His Spirit within them. This is the new birth (or being born again spiritually by which we are saved (Titus 3:5). However, as the passage states above, fruit will follow by the fact that the LORD will cause you to keep His laws and statutes. So it is the LORD who does the good work in you. Paul said know not your own selves. He said examine whether or not you be in Christ unless you be reprobate (2 Corinthians 13:5).
For sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4); And the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:13). For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26). Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him (Hebrews 10:38).
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:6-8).
This again is not an answer to the question I asked. Please go back and answer it. Or do you believe that we as believers can stop sinning? I say this because if Jesus did tell the woman caught in the act of adultery to, "sin no more.": And yet Jesus secretly believed that she could not really, "sin no more" then how then would this not be deceptive or a lie on Jesus's part?
Okay, from my understanding, you believe a child of God will always confess? If this is the case, then who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15 when he said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven? I say this because it would do no good for an unbeliever to forgive everyone in their life. The unbeliever will still be unforgiven if they refuse to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ. So Matthew 6:15 is talking to saved believers and not unbelievers. This lets us know that a believer can be unforgiven by the Father if they do not forgive others (Because Jesus was talking to believers). So the notion or idea that believers will automatically confess because they are a child of God (is just not true). Believers still have free will to choose God or not to choose God every day. It is why the Scriptures say, choose this day in whom ye will serve. It is why Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.
But again, you did not answer my question. 1 John 1:9 specifically says I am forgiven of sin if I confess sin. This flies in direct contradiction of OSAS Proponents claiming that future sin is forgiven me. For there would be no point in confessing sin so as to be forgiven of sin if all future sin was forgiven me. Also, if 1 John 1:9 is not dealing with salvation (As some OSAS proponents claim), then you need to show me specifically where that is the case. I say this because 1 John 3:15 does in fact deal with the topic of eternal life (And no apparent shift or change between the topic of "life and death" has changed between chapter 1 and chapter 3 within the 1st epistle of John).
Yes, a son can go prodigal. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, do you know that the father said twice that his son was "dead" and is "alive again"? This is speaking in spiritual terms of course. For when did Jesus not speak in spiritual terms when he spoke about his parables? But again, I do not believe we earn our salvation, but I believe God does the work in the believer when we surrender our life to Him. A man of God cannot serve both God and the devil. For he that sins is of the devil (1 John 3:8). He that is born of God does righteousness (1 John 2:29). This is how we know the true believer from the false believer (1 John 3:10) (1 John 2:3-4).
Wow. Really? Do you think God is against wanting His people to live righteously and holy?
Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the LORD.
Paul essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep His commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus said, "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:6).
Paul says,
"Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely,You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10).
Paul also says,
"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:17-27).
Woah! Are you saying I do not have to uphold goodness and morality? If that is the case, then this is just wrong on soooo many levels.
Peter says that there are false prophets who promise liberty but in fact they are the servants of corruption. For Peter says it would have been better for them to not have known the way of righteousness. But they are like dogs returning again to their own vomit.
"These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (2 Peter 2:17-22).
These false believers (mentioned above) are also described as having eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).
No. I did not say that the existence of sin in general is the equivalent of God condoning sin. Nowhere did I ever say that? God has already judged sin and wickedness in this world and it has it's end result with the Final Judgment. So nobody is going to get away with anything. What I am saying is that the OSAS Proponent is into the false belief that they can sin and think they can still be saved (As if God cannot judge their evil or sin somehow).
However, God cannot approve of anyone doing sin. God is Holy and just. A mere sacrifice is not going to take away rebellion in man. If that was the case, then everyone would be saved. In other words, it is as if you think God's people are above goodness and morality. But the Scriptures do not teach that.
Now, you are being double minded. You are jumping over the white line and claiming to be on the good guy's side now. What all the talk before of how you said we do not have to uphold morality or goodness? For if one is born again spiritually they are changed whereby they will uphold God's goodness and morality.
#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.
#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).
#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.
#4. Psalm 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).
#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.
#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.
However, you did not really answer my question. You never really explained to me how it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved. How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
Jesus said,
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. And the servant [of sin] abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever.If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:34-36).
Free from what?
Being a servant of sin.
For Jesus said that he that sins is a slave (servant) of sin.
For the servant of sin shall not abide in the house forever. How do we know this, for sure?
Jesus says elswhere. "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42).
But again, you did not really answer my question. How does dying in unrepentant sin such as lying, lusting, and hating make it okay enough with God to take you home despite such evils? Is God unrighteous? Can God condone a person's sin?
God said in the day you eat thereof you shall die. Did Adam and Eve both die that day? No. They died spiritually and needed to be renewed and saved by God.
As for being born again: Actually, while it is true that a person cannot deny in being born again, we have to actually define what being born again means. It is admitting your sinner and being sorrowful over your sin and accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior with the intention that you do not want to sin against Him anymore. The Spirit will then transform or renew that person's heart and spirit and give them new desires (But their free will is still in existence). However, what follows the new birth? Is it a lifestyle of sin? Or is a life of holiness (Thereby showing that they have been born again and made into the new man?). A great verse that describes the new birth and the fruit that follows it is Ezekiel 36:26-27. For the LORD says,
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."
So here we see God giving a person a new heart and a new spirit and then the LORD Himself places His Spirit within them. This is the new birth (or being born again spiritually by which we are saved (Titus 3:5). However, as the passage states above, fruit will follow by the fact that the LORD will cause you to keep His laws and statutes. So it is the LORD who does the good work in you. Paul said know not your own selves. He said examine whether or not you be in Christ unless you be reprobate (2 Corinthians 13:5).
For sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4); And the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:13). For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26). Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him (Hebrews 10:38).
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:6-8).
This again is not an answer to the question I asked. Please go back and answer it. Or do you believe that we as believers can stop sinning? I say this because if Jesus did tell the woman caught in the act of adultery to, "sin no more.": And yet Jesus secretly believed that she could not really, "sin no more" then how then would this not be deceptive or a lie on Jesus's part?
Okay, from my understanding, you believe a child of God will always confess? If this is the case, then who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15 when he said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven? I say this because it would do no good for an unbeliever to forgive everyone in their life. The unbeliever will still be unforgiven if they refuse to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ. So Matthew 6:15 is talking to saved believers and not unbelievers. This lets us know that a believer can be unforgiven by the Father if they do not forgive others (Because Jesus was talking to believers). So the notion or idea that believers will automatically confess because they are a child of God (is just not true). Believers still have free will to choose God or not to choose God every day. It is why the Scriptures say, choose this day in whom ye will serve. It is why Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.
But again, you did not answer my question. 1 John 1:9 specifically says I am forgiven of sin if I confess sin. This flies in direct contradiction of OSAS Proponents claiming that future sin is forgiven me. For there would be no point in confessing sin so as to be forgiven of sin if all future sin was forgiven me. Also, if 1 John 1:9 is not dealing with salvation (As some OSAS proponents claim), then you need to show me specifically where that is the case. I say this because 1 John 3:15 does in fact deal with the topic of eternal life (And no apparent shift or change between the topic of "life and death" has changed between chapter 1 and chapter 3 within the 1st epistle of John).
Yes, a son can go prodigal. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, do you know that the father said twice that his son was "dead" and is "alive again"? This is speaking in spiritual terms of course. For when did Jesus not speak in spiritual terms when he spoke about his parables? But again, I do not believe we earn our salvation, but I believe God does the work in the believer when we surrender our life to Him. A man of God cannot serve both God and the devil. For he that sins is of the devil (1 John 3:8). He that is born of God does righteousness (1 John 2:29). This is how we know the true believer from the false believer (1 John 3:10) (1 John 2:3-4).
Wow. Really? Do you think God is against wanting His people to live righteously and holy?
Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the LORD.
Paul essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep His commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus said, "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:6).
Paul says,
"Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely,You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10).
Paul also says,
"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil." (Ephesians 4:17-27).
Woah! Are you saying I do not have to uphold goodness and morality? If that is the case, then this is just wrong on soooo many levels.
Peter says that there are false prophets who promise liberty but in fact they are the servants of corruption. For Peter says it would have been better for them to not have known the way of righteousness. But they are like dogs returning again to their own vomit.
"These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (2 Peter 2:17-22).
These false believers (mentioned above) are also described as having eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).
No. I did not say that the existence of sin in general is the equivalent of God condoning sin. Nowhere did I ever say that? God has already judged sin and wickedness in this world and it has it's end result with the Final Judgment. So nobody is going to get away with anything. What I am saying is that the OSAS Proponent is into the false belief that they can sin and think they can still be saved (As if God cannot judge their evil or sin somehow).
However, God cannot approve of anyone doing sin. God is Holy and just. A mere sacrifice is not going to take away rebellion in man. If that was the case, then everyone would be saved. In other words, it is as if you think God's people are above goodness and morality. But the Scriptures do not teach that.
Now, you are being double minded. You are jumping over the white line and claiming to be on the good guy's side now. What all the talk before of how you said we do not have to uphold morality or goodness? For if one is born again spiritually they are changed whereby they will uphold God's goodness and morality.
Actually you have no clue of sonship and fellowship.....A son is always a son by birth and that never changes even though fellowship may be broken.......did you get whipped as a kid when you did something wrong? Did the fact that you were you dad's son change? NO you were still a son even though your fellowship was broken....open your eyes to the truth and quit twisting the scripture to your own demise!
Right, so those who do evil in God's name are the ones who are going to be saved over those who teach believers to obey Jesus's commands in regards to righteous living and holiness? I don't think so.
The Scriptures say, he that does righteusness is righteous.
And they also say, he that sins is of the devil.
The Scriptures say, he that does righteusness is righteous.
And they also say, he that sins is of the devil.
oh nice thread, i have some similar questions.
were all the apostles "lost" when they took Jesus in the garden?
they all ran away and left Him. they were all 'out of fellowship' at that time.
would you judge their fate if any of them had died at that time?
did Israel cease to become God's chosen people when they fell away?
or were they chastised, and did He not promise to bring them back?
why did Christ call Judas "friend" ?
why does David pray in the psalms to be forgiven of "secret" or "unknown" sin?
could he have died with sin that he hadn't consciously repented of?
do you (personally) repent of "sin" or only of specific "sins" one-at-a-time ?
how similar is "did God really say you shall not eat of the tree? will you really surely die?"
to "did Christ really say that no one can snatch those the Father has given to Him out of His hand? is the Father really greater than he that is in the world?"
how is casting stones in line with Christ forgiving this woman?
why did He tell her "neither do I condemn you" ?
how many of your sins were "future" when Christ died on the cross over 2,000 years ago?
which good thing does not come from God? is there any such thing?
which is better? to thank God for mercy, and to boast of what He has done? or to commend yourself, and boast of what you have done?
do you believe he became a pig when he worked in the sty? at what point did the father in this parable disown him? iirc, it was the other son, who did not have understanding, who thought to judge him, while the father who loved him watched for him to return, and did not hold his wrongs against him.
which part of God's grace & mercy do you think condones sin?
how can we be set free from the law of sin and death if we are still under the law of sin and death?
were all the apostles "lost" when they took Jesus in the garden?
they all ran away and left Him. they were all 'out of fellowship' at that time.
would you judge their fate if any of them had died at that time?
did Israel cease to become God's chosen people when they fell away?
or were they chastised, and did He not promise to bring them back?
why did Christ call Judas "friend" ?
why does David pray in the psalms to be forgiven of "secret" or "unknown" sin?
could he have died with sin that he hadn't consciously repented of?
do you (personally) repent of "sin" or only of specific "sins" one-at-a-time ?
how similar is "did God really say you shall not eat of the tree? will you really surely die?"
to "did Christ really say that no one can snatch those the Father has given to Him out of His hand? is the Father really greater than he that is in the world?"
how is casting stones in line with Christ forgiving this woman?
why did He tell her "neither do I condemn you" ?
how many of your sins were "future" when Christ died on the cross over 2,000 years ago?
which good thing does not come from God? is there any such thing?
which is better? to thank God for mercy, and to boast of what He has done? or to commend yourself, and boast of what you have done?
do you believe he became a pig when he worked in the sty? at what point did the father in this parable disown him? iirc, it was the other son, who did not have understanding, who thought to judge him, while the father who loved him watched for him to return, and did not hold his wrongs against him.
which part of God's grace & mercy do you think condones sin?
how can we be set free from the law of sin and death if we are still under the law of sin and death?
Last edited:
Your responses lack any credence what so ever as I never said that...do you have a 5th grade comprehension skill or what? Who does God whip genius? ONLY CHILDREN WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT...the fact of being a CHILD does not change...your problem is you cannot shut up for one second to actually read one's response and PONDER IT!
E
I have never seen someone get involved in so many Biblical arguments and constantly bring up the same things over and over again placing all the attention on themselves as much as this. Every argument you start tries to focus on how good you are compared to everyone else. Well newsflash for ya...you are no better than anyone else and all your self righteous posts prove that.
His problem is that he reads in things not said and has a one track mind that is stuck in the rut of his own coined false gospel...he claims sinless perfection, his works and will not open his eyes that he might actually see something....I have never in my life met someone like him who has no ability to comprehend what anyone states and one who constantly makes up lies about what we say so as to justify his heretical stance!
I have asked him before, since Jesus calls us His brothers and sisters: But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” and Peter asks Jesus how many times should he forgive his BROTHER who SINS against him:1 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. how can Jesus say to forgive our brethren for sinning against us (and God, cause Jesus is our brother) IF WE NEVER SIN?!!!
He obviously has no answer.
It's also curious that THIS issue is his obsessive MISSION. Rarely do I see him uplifting Christians, or praying for them etc... This is one sad man.
He obviously has no answer.
It's also curious that THIS issue is his obsessive MISSION. Rarely do I see him uplifting Christians, or praying for them etc... This is one sad man.
i think the question may boil down more toward "do i need Christ to be crucified again every time i sin? or did He die once for all sin and i need to keep believing this?"
because no one here, no matter what they think about finer points of doctrine, is going to say either "no need to repent" or "don't bother repenting because if you ever sin again after you've heard and believed the gospel, you're flat out of luck"
((p.s. don't commit adultery))
because no one here, no matter what they think about finer points of doctrine, is going to say either "no need to repent" or "don't bother repenting because if you ever sin again after you've heard and believed the gospel, you're flat out of luck"
((p.s. don't commit adultery))
A
Woohoo! More origami fortune telling. With that child's game, you have to answer four questions before finding out your "fortune." (And the fortunes were something like asking an Eight Ball a question, so not deeply "fortune telling." lol) What prizes do people get if they keep playing your game? Because, got to tell you, you're giving absolutely no incentive to play.
If you've ever wanted to know what career you should have done, I think it's negative-reinforcement behaviorism. Testing which animals will learn a skill simply by smacking them over and over again.
Any chance you've been kidnapped by a cult? Because, for some reason, you honestly think repeating the same thing over and over again actually convicts a person into believing it, kind of like Stockholm Syndrome.
Don't know what I mean? Flob was the only one willing to play your long-winded true/false quiz, and the only reward he got was more and more unrelated scolding. If he responds again, you'll keep doing that. It reminds me of that poor dragon in the bottom of Gringotts Wizard Bank. When he hears bells, he knows he's going to get pain.
The only type of person I can imagine who would think that method worked is someone stuck right smack in the middle of having that method used on him. So, are you kidnapped by a cult?
If you've ever wanted to know what career you should have done, I think it's negative-reinforcement behaviorism. Testing which animals will learn a skill simply by smacking them over and over again.
Any chance you've been kidnapped by a cult? Because, for some reason, you honestly think repeating the same thing over and over again actually convicts a person into believing it, kind of like Stockholm Syndrome.
Don't know what I mean? Flob was the only one willing to play your long-winded true/false quiz, and the only reward he got was more and more unrelated scolding. If he responds again, you'll keep doing that. It reminds me of that poor dragon in the bottom of Gringotts Wizard Bank. When he hears bells, he knows he's going to get pain.
The only type of person I can imagine who would think that method worked is someone stuck right smack in the middle of having that method used on him. So, are you kidnapped by a cult?
While we do not know of the apostle's spiritual status of their running away from the Lord for a short time (but yet came back), can we also say that the disciples who stopped following Jesus were saved, too?
What was their intention afterwards? Did they immediately stop following Jesus after that point? Do you think it is possible that they were sorrowful over their cowardly actions when they seen Him again?
While they are still God's chosen people, they are not saved currently. That is kind of the point.
Because he was once saved. He that keeps his commandments are his friends.
Psalm 19:12 is dealing with hidden or secret faults. These are sins that do not lead unto death. The Spirit will convict the man of God of serious sins like murder and adultery (in which he expressed Godly sorrow and confessed them in Psalm 51). Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul then lists various sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, and drunkenness, etc.
The devil's tactics have not changed. He is still trying to convince people of the lie that disobeying God's commands will not bring death (i.e. spiritual death). But the context of the verse you quote about how we cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand is in view of those sheep who FOLLOW Jesus. This is what the passage says. His sheep follow him. We are not talking about rebellious sheep being dragged about by their necks on leashes. For even Isaiah says we have all gone astray like sheep. So sheep can go astray. The question is: What type of sheep will you be? A sheep the goes astray? Or a sheep that follows Jesus? Can a sheep that stays lost and astray be saved? I don't think so.
This is arguing from the silence of Scripture. You cannot assume the wrong idea about Jesus forgiving a woman caught in the act of adultery if she was not sorrowful over her sin (If that is what you are proposing here). Again, you are avoiding the question asked. How could Jesus tell her to "sin no more" if Jesus really did not mean for her to "sin no more"? Jesus would have been playing a cruel joke on the woman if he thought she really could not "sin no more" and yet tell her to, "sin no more."
We do not look at the Scriptures from the outside looking in. We do not understand the Word by looking to what we see around us. While the Scriptures are in line with truths in the real world, one cannot take a truth from the world and force into the Scriptures where they do not fit. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Our understanding and faith comes from God's Word and not the world. So I believe 1 John 1:9 and not some sort of human/logic reason alone.
Well, we have to be careful in discerning or knowing the difference between God's righteousness (or goodness) and man's righteousness (goodness). For even unbelievers love their own children; And even the world loves it's own. For Satan masquerades as angel of light deceiving people.
Nowhere do I ever claim the good work done in my life as if it was something I have done. All the "good work" done in a a believer's life comes from the LORD. So if I boast, it is always in Him and not myself. Ezekiel 36:26-27 makes this clear. God gives a new heart, and new spirit and then He places His Spirit within us so as to keep His laws and statutes.
The father said he died twice and that he was now alive again twice. So the father thought his son was dead during the time of his riotous living. When the Prodigal son was willing to come back home is when he was recognized by his father as being alive again. The son was willing to work as a hired hand (servant), too. He was trying to reconcile his wrong with his father.
I do not have a problem with the Bible's version of God's grace and mercy because it also preaches repentance from sin. This means we are to have a Godly sorrow over sin and that we are to depart from evil. For John 3:20 says he that does evil hates the light. But the OSAS version of God's grace and mercy does not exist in the Bible. For it says that you can die in unrepentant sin (like lying, hate, and lusting), and still be be saved. It is also wrong because it says that you will never stop sinning, too (Meaning you will always make an excuse to sin by claiming it is your "sin nature" to do so; But Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin; And he says the servant will not abide in the house forever.).
The Law of Sin and Death is in reference to the Law of Moses and it is not in reference to the New Covenant Law or Commands, such as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Royal Law (James 2:8), or the Law of Liberty (James 1:25), or the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27).
Sin is still transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
The wages of sin is still death (Romans 6:23).
For to be carnally minded is death (Romans 8:6).
What was their intention afterwards? Did they immediately stop following Jesus after that point? Do you think it is possible that they were sorrowful over their cowardly actions when they seen Him again?
While they are still God's chosen people, they are not saved currently. That is kind of the point.
Because he was once saved. He that keeps his commandments are his friends.
Psalm 19:12 is dealing with hidden or secret faults. These are sins that do not lead unto death. The Spirit will convict the man of God of serious sins like murder and adultery (in which he expressed Godly sorrow and confessed them in Psalm 51). Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul then lists various sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, and drunkenness, etc.
The devil's tactics have not changed. He is still trying to convince people of the lie that disobeying God's commands will not bring death (i.e. spiritual death). But the context of the verse you quote about how we cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand is in view of those sheep who FOLLOW Jesus. This is what the passage says. His sheep follow him. We are not talking about rebellious sheep being dragged about by their necks on leashes. For even Isaiah says we have all gone astray like sheep. So sheep can go astray. The question is: What type of sheep will you be? A sheep the goes astray? Or a sheep that follows Jesus? Can a sheep that stays lost and astray be saved? I don't think so.
This is arguing from the silence of Scripture. You cannot assume the wrong idea about Jesus forgiving a woman caught in the act of adultery if she was not sorrowful over her sin (If that is what you are proposing here). Again, you are avoiding the question asked. How could Jesus tell her to "sin no more" if Jesus really did not mean for her to "sin no more"? Jesus would have been playing a cruel joke on the woman if he thought she really could not "sin no more" and yet tell her to, "sin no more."
We do not look at the Scriptures from the outside looking in. We do not understand the Word by looking to what we see around us. While the Scriptures are in line with truths in the real world, one cannot take a truth from the world and force into the Scriptures where they do not fit. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Our understanding and faith comes from God's Word and not the world. So I believe 1 John 1:9 and not some sort of human/logic reason alone.
Well, we have to be careful in discerning or knowing the difference between God's righteousness (or goodness) and man's righteousness (goodness). For even unbelievers love their own children; And even the world loves it's own. For Satan masquerades as angel of light deceiving people.
Nowhere do I ever claim the good work done in my life as if it was something I have done. All the "good work" done in a a believer's life comes from the LORD. So if I boast, it is always in Him and not myself. Ezekiel 36:26-27 makes this clear. God gives a new heart, and new spirit and then He places His Spirit within us so as to keep His laws and statutes.
The father said he died twice and that he was now alive again twice. So the father thought his son was dead during the time of his riotous living. When the Prodigal son was willing to come back home is when he was recognized by his father as being alive again. The son was willing to work as a hired hand (servant), too. He was trying to reconcile his wrong with his father.
I do not have a problem with the Bible's version of God's grace and mercy because it also preaches repentance from sin. This means we are to have a Godly sorrow over sin and that we are to depart from evil. For John 3:20 says he that does evil hates the light. But the OSAS version of God's grace and mercy does not exist in the Bible. For it says that you can die in unrepentant sin (like lying, hate, and lusting), and still be be saved. It is also wrong because it says that you will never stop sinning, too (Meaning you will always make an excuse to sin by claiming it is your "sin nature" to do so; But Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin; And he says the servant will not abide in the house forever.).
The Law of Sin and Death is in reference to the Law of Moses and it is not in reference to the New Covenant Law or Commands, such as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Royal Law (James 2:8), or the Law of Liberty (James 1:25), or the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27).
Sin is still transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
The wages of sin is still death (Romans 6:23).
For to be carnally minded is death (Romans 8:6).
Last edited:
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. He is long suffering towards them. I am trying to walk in the Lord's footsteps and be patient with people as I tell them the truth of the Scriptures.
Oh, and to answer your question: No, I was not kidnapped by a cult or anyone. Jesus is the one who stole my heart and it is to Him I live (according to His Word).
Oh, and to answer your question: No, I was not kidnapped by a cult or anyone. Jesus is the one who stole my heart and it is to Him I live (according to His Word).
You can call it what you will, but nobody actually honestly answered the questions I put forth because they cannot answer them. For it would expose what they believe if they were forced to think about the darkness of their own belief. Jesus did not die so that His people can sin while under grace and still be saved. Jesus did not die on the cross so as to make you think you will still be a slave to your sin in this life. For Jesus said, he that sins is a slave to sin.