If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.
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P
I don't pay a lot of attention to this thread. Just pop in every few days.
One thing that is happening here is deception and envy.
There are many who don't like Jason, indeed, I think he is full of himself a lot, but you're dismissing the complete message for that reason?
If someone stops sinning you sneer down your noses at them, call them self-righteous, prideful, hypocrites, and many other things.
Yet Christ Himself told us to sin no more. None of you can refute those verses that Jason and I have brought to your attention, yet you insinuate Christ was mistaken, misquoted, or talking anyone besides us. Even though most of you have, at some time or other, quoted the passage that says "all scripture is profitable for doctrine".
Just because someone else is obeying scripture is no reason to belittle them. It can be done you know.
One thing that is happening here is deception and envy.
There are many who don't like Jason, indeed, I think he is full of himself a lot, but you're dismissing the complete message for that reason?
If someone stops sinning you sneer down your noses at them, call them self-righteous, prideful, hypocrites, and many other things.
Yet Christ Himself told us to sin no more. None of you can refute those verses that Jason and I have brought to your attention, yet you insinuate Christ was mistaken, misquoted, or talking anyone besides us. Even though most of you have, at some time or other, quoted the passage that says "all scripture is profitable for doctrine".
Just because someone else is obeying scripture is no reason to belittle them. It can be done you know.
B
Phil, did not the Pharisees put burdens on people according to the law, accuse them as sinners and would never lift a finger to relieve those burdens? They had their own righteousness and measured others by that righteousness. Jason, in principle and practice is doing the same because he does not understand the finished work. If I go out and live in sin today, the Spirit would be grieved in me and I would not have any joy or God's love active in my heart. God would not condemn me for my sin but would put a plan into effect to restore me and get me back in fellowship with him. Jason does not believe that kind of grace and mercy and claims that one is not saved when fellowship is broken. He is way off and continues to perpetrate this terrible doctrine upon other believers who believe in eternal salvation and goes as far as condemning them to hell. He should be severely rebuked for his false doctrine and misguided error with all of his accusations about others who condone and promote sin.
Well, it is a condoning and a promotion to sin if you believe you can sin and still be saved. That would be like Rick killing Jack's family and then expecting to be in Jack's good graces whereby Jack would want to invite Rick over for dinner to celebrate with him. God is not going to allow people into Heaven who abide in sin. God is Holy and He cannot condone sin. Yes, God will correct a believer to repent. But this is to get them saved again. If they refuse to repent, then God is not going to force salvation upon them. Oh, and Jesus meant what He said when he told the woman caught in the act of adultery. Jesus would never tell someone to do something that He did not think was possible. That would be like me saying this to you .....
"Hey Brad, would you please stop picking up cars and throwing over my house!"
I would never say that to you because I know that you cannot pick up automobiles that are really heavy and cast them over the roof of a house because you do not have the strength of Superman.
It is the same with Christ. Jesus would never tell the woman caught in the act of adultery to do something that he did not think was possible for her. Otherwise he would have been lying; And that is not possible because Jesus is God and He cannot lie.
"Hey Brad, would you please stop picking up cars and throwing over my house!"
I would never say that to you because I know that you cannot pick up automobiles that are really heavy and cast them over the roof of a house because you do not have the strength of Superman.
It is the same with Christ. Jesus would never tell the woman caught in the act of adultery to do something that he did not think was possible for her. Otherwise he would have been lying; And that is not possible because Jesus is God and He cannot lie.
Yet Jesus give an example of men doing good and still being evil. Mat 7 Paul wrote that there is none that doeth good no not one. Rom 3
You endeavor to manipulate God and demonstrate you have no knowledge of forgiveness. You see yourself as skilled in the word but you have no personal understanding and thereby no wisdom. Nothing more than an empty cloud with no rain.
If you could only see yourself as God sees you but your eyes are dark and your ears are stopped up.
You say we are saved by grace but your doctrine teaches that you really believe that forgiveness requires works. Grace is far greater than all our sins. Gods love allows God to forgive and to remember no more our sins for all of eternity. Stop measuring yourself against other men and stand before Gods perfect standard of judgment.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You endeavor to manipulate God and demonstrate you have no knowledge of forgiveness. You see yourself as skilled in the word but you have no personal understanding and thereby no wisdom. Nothing more than an empty cloud with no rain.
If you could only see yourself as God sees you but your eyes are dark and your ears are stopped up.
You say we are saved by grace but your doctrine teaches that you really believe that forgiveness requires works. Grace is far greater than all our sins. Gods love allows God to forgive and to remember no more our sins for all of eternity. Stop measuring yourself against other men and stand before Gods perfect standard of judgment.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Those who are evil and yet do some good doesn't equate with them being good. There is none good but God. So there is a difference between the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God. For there are those who have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God when they are seeking to establish their own righteousness (Romans 10:3). So we are not talking about the same "good" here.
The passage in Romans 3 that talks about how there is none good is in context to how we were all once unbelievers. Unless you want to also falsely assert that there is none who do not understand and there is none who seek after God in the same chapter.
What does the Bible say about forgiveness? In 1 John 1:9, it says, "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins."
Matthew 6:15 says if we do not forgive, then we will not be forgiven by the Father.
A person who is skilled in the Word and has the understanding can easily explain passages put forth before them (And they are backed up by both the context and many other verses that say the same thing).
Wisdom is justified of her children.
You have to keep reading to get the context (Which refutes what you believe).
The Bible does not say we can keep sinning against God and be saved. The Scriptures say that if any man draws back his soul shall have no pleasure in him. Also, I am not claiming it is your works that is doing the saving, either. It is God who does the good work in the believer. If they mess up, they have God's grace that they can go to so as to confess and be forgiven.
We are do our works not so as to be justified before God but so as to show our faith is true before men (Romans 4:2).
The passage in Romans 3 that talks about how there is none good is in context to how we were all once unbelievers. Unless you want to also falsely assert that there is none who do not understand and there is none who seek after God in the same chapter.
What does the Bible say about forgiveness? In 1 John 1:9, it says, "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins."
Matthew 6:15 says if we do not forgive, then we will not be forgiven by the Father.
A person who is skilled in the Word and has the understanding can easily explain passages put forth before them (And they are backed up by both the context and many other verses that say the same thing).
Wisdom is justified of her children.
You have to keep reading to get the context (Which refutes what you believe).
"These are spots in your love feasts, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about by winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convict all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." (Jude 1:12-15)
God cannot condone a saint to sin those types of sins that are very serious like lying, lusting, and hating, etc. A person has to confess and forsake sin (Proverbs 28:13).
The Bible does not say we can keep sinning against God and be saved. The Scriptures say that if any man draws back his soul shall have no pleasure in him. Also, I am not claiming it is your works that is doing the saving, either. It is God who does the good work in the believer. If they mess up, they have God's grace that they can go to so as to confess and be forgiven.
We are do our works not so as to be justified before God but so as to show our faith is true before men (Romans 4:2).
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That does not mean that God will condemn them. A born again Christian can never be brought under condemnation.
This is what I mean when I say you do not understand forgiveness. God does not forgive like you forgive. God forgives completely and eternally. That is what grace is all about. Gods perfect love perfected in our imperfection.
When we receive Christ as our Savior we are now seen by God as having the righteousness of Christ. God sees us already in our perfected state which we will see when we are glorified together with Christ.
What shall I say of the man who will not trust God to do His will in his life? A man who demands from others that which God does not demand.
Why struggle against God by attempting to do in the flesh what can only be accomplished in the Spirit?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is what I mean when I say you do not understand forgiveness. God does not forgive like you forgive. God forgives completely and eternally. That is what grace is all about. Gods perfect love perfected in our imperfection.
When we receive Christ as our Savior we are now seen by God as having the righteousness of Christ. God sees us already in our perfected state which we will see when we are glorified together with Christ.
What shall I say of the man who will not trust God to do His will in his life? A man who demands from others that which God does not demand.
Why struggle against God by attempting to do in the flesh what can only be accomplished in the Spirit?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, born again Christians can be brought under Condemnation. For that is what the Parable of the Sower is about and the many warnings in the Bible that talk about believers falling away from the faith is about.
However, the "Elect" or those who have "root in God's Word" will not fall away, though. However, seeing we do not know who the Elect are, so we have to act in the present moment and abide in Christ and His word.
There are many Christ will say, I never knew you, depart from me ye that worked iniquity (Also see Ezekiel 18 in relation to not knowing someone). These believers sure thought they knew Christ but they were surprised and in for a shock by what Christ said to them in Matthew 7. Would it not be in your best interest to find out why?
However, the "Elect" or those who have "root in God's Word" will not fall away, though. However, seeing we do not know who the Elect are, so we have to act in the present moment and abide in Christ and His word.
There are many Christ will say, I never knew you, depart from me ye that worked iniquity (Also see Ezekiel 18 in relation to not knowing someone). These believers sure thought they knew Christ but they were surprised and in for a shock by what Christ said to them in Matthew 7. Would it not be in your best interest to find out why?
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F
'elect' in this context means predestinated, chosen before the foundation of the world.
Is that what you mean by 'root in God's word' before they were born?
After one has received Christ, that one can know that she or he is predestinated. Because they are.
Likewise, if you are a believer, like Paul was, you may know many other believers, which means you at least know
that they are 'elect' in this sense also
Is that what you mean by 'root in God's word' before they were born?
After one has received Christ, that one can know that she or he is predestinated. Because they are.
Likewise, if you are a believer, like Paul was, you may know many other believers, which means you at least know
that they are 'elect' in this sense also
They are two different things that relate to each other as to those who endure in their faith until the end.
1 Peter 1:1, 2 gives us the clue that those faithful beleivers are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. Meaning, faithful believers are elect (chosen) by God according to His future foreknowledge. For the Scriptures say... God has declared the end from the beginning. God is aware of who is going to choose Him of their own free will and be faithful to Him. Those who are the "Elect" are those who were faithful to Jesus. Jesus knows who these believers are. We don't. But Jesus sure does. Unfaithful believers are not the Elect and they do not endure in their faith and they fall away due to either the cares of this life or due to being offended when persecution comes (Like the Parable of the Sower says).
Having "root in God's Word" is where a faithful believer has sown the seed of the Word of God into their heart so deeply that they will not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. They have a solid Spirit trained knowledge of the Scriptures and they stand upon the truths of God's Word firmly. They have a confidence in God's Word whereby they are willing to give up all things in service to Jesus and they are willing to even be persecuted physically and die for Christ and His Word, too. Those who have "root in God's Word" (and bear forth much fruit) are also God's Elect (or Chosen One's He knows will be faithful to Him).
Having "root in God's Word" is mentioned in the Parable of the Sower. Only a spiritually born again believer can have "root in God's Word." For the devil was not successful in taking the seed of the Word out of all three who received the Word. However, only one of them endured, though. Only one of them had root.
1 Peter 1:1, 2 gives us the clue that those faithful beleivers are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. Meaning, faithful believers are elect (chosen) by God according to His future foreknowledge. For the Scriptures say... God has declared the end from the beginning. God is aware of who is going to choose Him of their own free will and be faithful to Him. Those who are the "Elect" are those who were faithful to Jesus. Jesus knows who these believers are. We don't. But Jesus sure does. Unfaithful believers are not the Elect and they do not endure in their faith and they fall away due to either the cares of this life or due to being offended when persecution comes (Like the Parable of the Sower says).
Having "root in God's Word" is where a faithful believer has sown the seed of the Word of God into their heart so deeply that they will not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. They have a solid Spirit trained knowledge of the Scriptures and they stand upon the truths of God's Word firmly. They have a confidence in God's Word whereby they are willing to give up all things in service to Jesus and they are willing to even be persecuted physically and die for Christ and His Word, too. Those who have "root in God's Word" (and bear forth much fruit) are also God's Elect (or Chosen One's He knows will be faithful to Him).
Having "root in God's Word" is mentioned in the Parable of the Sower. Only a spiritually born again believer can have "root in God's Word." For the devil was not successful in taking the seed of the Word out of all three who received the Word. However, only one of them endured, though. Only one of them had root.
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B
When a believer, who has the old sin nature still in the cells and members of his body and will until the day of redemption of his body, tries to hold onto any sin and makes a provision for it in the flesh, God will convict and make that believer very uncomfortable in his sin until he forsakes it. He will be chastened if necessary and even scourged until he turns from his sin. He has never lost or forfeited his salvation during this process because God is faithful who has promised to keep him in Christ.
G
The flesh also loves evil..........................human good or self righteousness. Its a nasty, festering wound hidden underneath our clothes. Evil, which is human good, is the major problem in Christianity today.
We could follow the pharisees around for months at a time and not catch them in sin, but they were oozing evil(human good/self righteousness) from their festering wound underneath their colorful robes. And they received the brunt of all of Jesus Christ's rebukes.
We could follow the pharisees around for months at a time and not catch them in sin, but they were oozing evil(human good/self righteousness) from their festering wound underneath their colorful robes. And they received the brunt of all of Jesus Christ's rebukes.
Scripture provides reassurance to those who belong to Christ. Gods Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are His. Romans 8:16
Tares are very busy looking like wheat but the angels of God will sort them out on judgment day. Those who are most religious will be turned away when they appear before Christ. It is not their works that are considered but their heart knowledge of Christ. Like the tombs which were white on the outside but filled inwardly with the bones of dead men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Tares are very busy looking like wheat but the angels of God will sort them out on judgment day. Those who are most religious will be turned away when they appear before Christ. It is not their works that are considered but their heart knowledge of Christ. Like the tombs which were white on the outside but filled inwardly with the bones of dead men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
B
Those who proclaim their deeds in the name of God, yet were rejected as one whom God did not know, did not have His Spirit nor did they respond to God's conviction, but were religious people with a religious conscience using the name of God to appease their conscience and make a fair show in the flesh. They were never born of the Spirit and God's incorruptible seed. The new birth never took place in them and they were never placed in Christ. They did what was right in their own eyes and used the written word in many cases to justify themselves as God's people. They were never cleansed from their sin and were never saved by the grace of God through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Those who have believed upon the Son have life and are God's elect, they have the Spirit and have been begotten of the incorruptible seed of God's word through the new birth. The Parable of the Sower illustrates those who have heard and try to conform to the gospel without the Spirit of grace. These are types of hearers that correspond to the condition of the heart in receiving the seed that was sown, one by the wayside being trodden down, another on stony ground and the other among thorns. None of these conditions of the heart were able to receive the seed to have it take root in them. One had the seed snatched away by Satan, another it was burned up and the third was choked yielding no fruit. They were not born again of the incorruptible seed because the condition of the soil of their heart could not receive it. However, the seed fell on the fourth hearer who had good soil and the seed took root and yielded fruit.
Those who have believed upon the Son have life and are God's elect, they have the Spirit and have been begotten of the incorruptible seed of God's word through the new birth. The Parable of the Sower illustrates those who have heard and try to conform to the gospel without the Spirit of grace. These are types of hearers that correspond to the condition of the heart in receiving the seed that was sown, one by the wayside being trodden down, another on stony ground and the other among thorns. None of these conditions of the heart were able to receive the seed to have it take root in them. One had the seed snatched away by Satan, another it was burned up and the third was choked yielding no fruit. They were not born again of the incorruptible seed because the condition of the soil of their heart could not receive it. However, the seed fell on the fourth hearer who had good soil and the seed took root and yielded fruit.