If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.
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Here, let me help you.
What must you believe to be saved?
#1. Admit Your A Sinner:
Romans 3:10-12
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
2. Realize that there is a Judgment or Consequence of your Sin:
Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
#3. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior:
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day…"
John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
Romans 5:8
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
Romans 5:17-18
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Ephesians 1:7
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."
#4. Call Upon the Name of the Lord:
Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
#5. Repent of Your Sins:
Matthew 4:17
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Luke 13:3
"…Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:7
"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas;
Jonah 3:5, 10.
(v) 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, (v) 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
#6. Confess With Your Mouth the Lord Jesus Christ:Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
#7. Endure in Your Faith to the End:Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Good News:
If you have never truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, or if you are living in unrepentant sin, and you feel lost and trapped; Well, I am here to tell you that there is good news and that there is hope for you. For what must you truly believe to be saved according to the Bible? What must you believe to have that real relationship with Christ that brings love, peace, and true assurance of salvation? Well, please check out the following verses below.
If you have never truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, or if you are living in unrepentant sin, and you feel lost and trapped; Well, I am here to tell you that there is good news and that there is hope for you. For what must you truly believe to be saved according to the Bible? What must you believe to have that real relationship with Christ that brings love, peace, and true assurance of salvation? Well, please check out the following verses below.
What must you believe to be saved?
#1. Admit Your A Sinner:
Romans 3:10-12
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
2. Realize that there is a Judgment or Consequence of your Sin:
Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
#3. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior:
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day…"
John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
Romans 5:8
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
Romans 5:17-18
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Ephesians 1:7
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."
#4. Call Upon the Name of the Lord:
Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
#5. Repent of Your Sins:
Matthew 4:17
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Luke 13:3
"…Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:7
"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas;
Jonah 3:5, 10.
(v) 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, (v) 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
#6. Confess With Your Mouth the Lord Jesus Christ:Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
#7. Endure in Your Faith to the End:Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
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P
not my job to dis prove anything, i think your doing a fine job of showing how to do a topical search on the bible i did one to show aliens exist, yep was rubbish but thats what you get with topical searches, you can have any pre concieved conclusion and find scriptures to fit..we dont all study that way..
I haven't read every post here so not sure if anyone may have said this but I have a question for you Jason. Who Will is it that is being done as in heaven, so in earth also? Is it not God's?
Explain this.... ""And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39
Jesus said it clearly, "I should lose nothing." If nothing is lost then how can a christian lose their salvation?
By believing one can lose their salvation one is denying the work of the Holy Spirit in their life and sadly for the one who belives in one losing their salvation doesn't realize that.
Explain this.... ""And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39
Jesus said it clearly, "I should lose nothing." If nothing is lost then how can a christian lose their salvation?
By believing one can lose their salvation one is denying the work of the Holy Spirit in their life and sadly for the one who belives in one losing their salvation doesn't realize that.
As for John 6:37-40. This is what the passasge says,
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
First, what does Jesus mean by,
“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”
Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).
Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.
Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,
"I WILL lose nothing."
However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,
"I SHOULD lose nothing."
John 6:39
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me Ishould lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
You can double check it for yourself here,
John 6 KJV
Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40
"MAY have everlasting life".
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?
Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.
John 17:12 - "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.
And OSAS terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.
Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?
Source Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/yaho...ty.2593556.pdf
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
First, what does Jesus mean by,
“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”
Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).
Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.
Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,
"I WILL lose nothing."
However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,
"I SHOULD lose nothing."
John 6:39
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me Ishould lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
You can double check it for yourself here,
John 6 KJV
Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40
"MAY have everlasting life".
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?
Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.
John 17:12 - "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.
And OSAS terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.
Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?
Source Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/yaho...ty.2593556.pdf
P
hi angel, what you will find is that if someone foundation doctrine is faulty they will read scriptures different to the rest of us which we can see with universalists, wof movement, judizing movement etc etc. as you can see they twist scripture to fit their pre disposed position, its obvious to everyone else but themselves, with this particular heresy though, it condems anyone that doesn't think like them so in affect they are saying we arent saved. The sort of person who goes round telling everyone how perfect they are isn't gonna listen to anyone cos we are less perfect than them. sort of rings a bell with the pharisee's dont you think. So like most here have come to the conclusion that attempting to have any discussion is pointless cos they are not willing to consider any other point of view. Like many of us who tried, we read their comments and re[plied but after a while you realise they are not even properly reading your comments but are here to broadcast there own views and are not interested in anyone elses. (what do you expect from someone who calls themselve perfect.). i have a rule whereas if i have joined a debate then i dont use mod powers to be fair, i am sure the mod assigned to deal with this wont be putting up with this continued heresy for long. Also for your interest in live chat these sinless people dont last very long at all as we have many studied people there, some knowing original languages, and they simply outclass these people with there knowledge of scripture. blessings to you..
W
You know, Jason, you keep using this alcoholic illustration, but alcoholics who go to AA meetings will tell you that "once an alcoholic, forever an alcoholic" -- even if they haven't had a sip in 10+ years. It's no different that a Christian who professes that he/she is a Sinner -- even if he/she hasn't (knowingly) sinned in years, still a Sinner.
W
Disagree; When a person says they can sin and still be saved, they are only speaking of the possibility -- as in, God's grace is sufficient, or nothing is impossible with God.
[h=1]1 Corinthians 6:12-20Amplified Bible (AMP)[/h]12 Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.
13 Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again].
14 And God both raised the Lord to life and will also raise us up by His power.
15 Do you not see and know that your bodies are members (bodily parts) of Christ (the Messiah)? Am I therefore to take the parts of Christ and make [them] parts of a prostitute? Never! Never!
16 Or do you not know and realize that when a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? The two, it is written, shall become one flesh.
17 But the person who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.
18 Shun immorality and all sexual looseness [flee from impurity in thought, word, or deed]. Any other sin which a man commits is one outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
20 You were bought with a price [purchased with a [b]preciousness and paid for,[c]made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
Amplified Bible (AMP)Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
No one, here, is arguing that it does. But you keep arguing as if we have.
[h=1]1 Corinthians 6:12-20Amplified Bible (AMP)[/h]12 Everything is permissible (allowable and lawful) for me; but not all things are helpful (good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things). Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power.
13 Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again].
14 And God both raised the Lord to life and will also raise us up by His power.
15 Do you not see and know that your bodies are members (bodily parts) of Christ (the Messiah)? Am I therefore to take the parts of Christ and make [them] parts of a prostitute? Never! Never!
16 Or do you not know and realize that when a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? The two, it is written, shall become one flesh.
17 But the person who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.
18 Shun immorality and all sexual looseness [flee from impurity in thought, word, or deed]. Any other sin which a man commits is one outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
20 You were bought with a price [purchased with a [b]preciousness and paid for,[c]made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
- 1 Corinthians 6:13 The Cambridge Bible. See also Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 15:35-54.
- 1 Corinthians 6:20 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
- 1 Corinthians 6:20 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
Amplified Bible (AMP)Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
No one, here, is arguing that it does. But you keep arguing as if we have.
K
I agree with everything you say here and I am not a sinless perfectionist, but I do believe by the Holy Spirit we can learn to abstain from sinning more and more by His strength in us. We will stumble at times as believers and it will not cost us our salvation for that stumble, as we will confess and turn away from it.
Why I am responding though is because I have tried to contact moderators before about the report function seeming not to work properly for some of us. The reason being is that the part I bolded and underlined that you said about condemning others who do not agree with them. This is not done by just sinless perfectionist on here, as I have seen a couple who follow OSAS do the same to others on here. If you do not agree with them then you are condemned, and have seen them say things as you are going to burn, you are following your father satan, and constantly bare false witness on others because they do not read all that you say or misread what you have said.
There are a number on here that I have respectful friendly debates with all the time, but there are others that can not bridle their tongues and it comes from all doctrine backgrounds and not just sinless perfectionists !!!
W
KennethC - I agree with you here; several folks have slipped with their words -- not only one group of people.
Here's what I don't understand, lately EACH time I see one of your posts, you make reference to the above complaint (about people who are making personal attacks) but I never see you reference a specific individual. We're all people here, if you have a problem with something someone said -- confront that person. Let us know here. Send us a PM.
I haven't really seen anything that is blatantly offensive enough to deserve a ban - it is my opinion, that we should be able to resolve these instances without the intervention of an administrator. The problem I see is that we keep tossing out these general blanket statements, stating that "these people" or "those people" are doing such & such... Let's just squash it when it happens, instead of holding a grudge.
Here's what I don't understand, lately EACH time I see one of your posts, you make reference to the above complaint (about people who are making personal attacks) but I never see you reference a specific individual. We're all people here, if you have a problem with something someone said -- confront that person. Let us know here. Send us a PM.
I haven't really seen anything that is blatantly offensive enough to deserve a ban - it is my opinion, that we should be able to resolve these instances without the intervention of an administrator. The problem I see is that we keep tossing out these general blanket statements, stating that "these people" or "those people" are doing such & such... Let's just squash it when it happens, instead of holding a grudge.