If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[Jason0047]

I'm well aware. There was quite a bit of paganism that slipped into Christianity under Rome.

You're talking to a guy who agonized over purchasing a Scofield KJV because he didn't want someone else's notes clouding his judgment. Plus I don't agree with Scofield on some points, but I digress.

It sounds lik you are a KJV guy. Well, I am a KJV guy, too. I believe it to be the divinely inspired Word of God for our day. But I do also read Modern Translations because they are very helpful in updating the Early Modern English (i.e. 1600's English) to current Late Modern English (Today's English). While Modern Translations have many, many problems they still are very resourceful in helping to update a style of English that nobody speaks anymore.

Take for example Colossians 2:17 in the KJV. It says this...

"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

When I read this.... it is not really all that clear.

But when I read God's Word Translation in this instance that says,

"These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body [that casts the shadow] belongs to Christ."

It then becomes unmistakenly clear in what the passsage is saying (with no room for confusion). Granted, there are many problems with the GWT Bible; But the point is that I do not limit myself to a confined point of view to help me understand God's Word. For there have been many times I have read article after article after article after article after article in search to understand a passage that is difficult by many to understand. Jesus says if you knock. It will be opened unto you. So nothing in God's Word is beyond our understanding. It just takes pray and enough knocking to get the answer.

But, you may already know this already.

 

[Jason0047]

Philippians 1:6

And the context....

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).

I am not sure how a "sin and still be saved" doctrine works with this verse seeing we are supposed to be lights in the world amongst a crooked and perverse nation?

But I am sure somebody here will find a way to twist this verse to say something other than what it actually says; Or folks here will just ignore it (Like it does not exist).

 

[BradC]

I am not striving to attain salvation, either. I have an assurance of my salvation right here and right now in Jesus Christ and what He has done for me and by the promises in His Word (by repentance). As for works: Well, I am merely yielding to the LORD who lives within me. For if God lives within a person, then surely the good fruit of the LORD will follow and not bad fruit, yes? So the work is not about salvation, but it is just merely the "Effect" of the "Cause" of salvation or in having God living in you. No God living in you = No salvation. For God is our salvation. He is the source of eternal life. Not some work on our part and not some mental acknowledgment demon belief type of faith (with no actual change in our lives or making of excuses to live in sin).

In (2 Pt 2:7) the scriptures says that Lot was a just and righteous man. Jason, what made him a just man? He separated from Abraham and went his way into Sodom and Gomorrah because of strife. He was vexed by the filthy conversation and lifestyle of those who resided in those two areas. He was ready to deliver his two married daughters to the men of the city to do as they would saw fit to satisfy their sexually perverted desires they wanted to have with the men who came to deliver Lot. After being delivered from the destruction of S&G, Lot got drunk and was seduced by both his daughters, having incest with them and bearing children (Moabites & Ammonites). What exactly was it about Lot that made him a righteous man worthy of being delivered from destruction? All scripture is given for our learning, so what are we to learn from this story of Lot?



This story does not fit into your criteria of what it means to live a righteous life. Was Lot a saved man and did not his deliverance signify his salvation (Gen 18:26-33)? Why would the Holy Spirit inspire Peter to write of this man as a just man? Lot was not condemned with the world, but according to your numerous posts on this subject of OSAS you would no doubt have condemned Lot as a wicked and unrighteous man who committed unrepented sin with his daughters, a most despicable thing. Show me where Lot repented of these acts and deeds he committed with his daughters. Why did not God condemn him for these deeds? Instead he delivered him and preserved the offspring of his daughters who bore his children but later destroyed them.

Jason, you have to respond to this story and if you do not then you are not credible and you exclude or take away scripture for your own purposes. We all have to deal with this story and we struggle with it, not understanding why God would remember Abraham's request and deliver his nephew Lot.

Did not Lot sin and was he still not still considered a just man?

 

[WoundedWarrior]

If you are an OSAS Proponent, then I have some questions for you that I would like answered. It appears the problem here on the forums is that many say that they are not in support of "sin" or in doing evil or in "Easy believism."

Have you found any of these OSAS "Proponents" yet? I haven't. I have experienced you lumping people in with these alleged OSAS proponents though -- simply for holding the belief that we, as a part of the human condition, are sinners.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Again, you have reading problems. I said I came to save you BY THE POWER OF THE GOSPEL IN GOD"S WORD. Jesus is the One who saves by the power of this gospel and Him alone. I am merely a messenger who points you to Christ and His goodness.

I sure hope God doesn't send all those with reading problems to burn in the lake of fire..

 

[WoundedWarrior]

But I am sure somebody here will find a way to twist this verse to say something other than what it actually says; Or folks here will just ignore it (Like it does not exist).

You are pretty good at the above, Jason. Which makes you a troll.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

And the context....

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).

I am not sure how a "sin and still be saved" doctrine works with this verse seeing we are supposed to be lights in the world amongst a crooked and perverse nation?

But I am sure somebody here will find a way to twist this verse to say something other than what it actually says; Or folks here will just ignore it (Like it does not exist).

I'm sorry Jason, this is not the context I'm reading it in. Paul is talking about spiritual growth: 3 I thank my God every time I remember you.4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now,6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart and, whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God’s grace with me.8 God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.

I have to go out now - I am not ignoring any reply you might give to this.

 

[Jason0047]

I'm sorry Jason, this is not the context I'm reading it in. Paul is talking about spiritual growth: 3 I thank my God every time I remember you.4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now,6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart and, whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God’s grace with me.8 God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.

I have to go out now - I am not ignoring any reply you might give to this.

Again, you believe you can sin on some level and still be saved. Correct? Well, how can one be a light to a crooked and perverse generation if one is crooked and perverted themselves?

 

[Mitspa]

Again, you believe you can sin on some level and still be saved. Correct? Well, how can one be a light to a crooked and perverse generation if one is crooked and perverted themselves?

You mean like the Pharisees?

 

[Grandpa]

I'm sorry Jason, this is not the context I'm reading it in. Paul is talking about spiritual growth: 3 I thank my God every time I remember you.4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now,6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart and, whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God’s grace with me.8 God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.

I have to go out now - I am not ignoring any reply you might give to this.

This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.

Its not The Light. Its just a small reflection of that. Of the Lord Jesus.

And my honesty, while in the Light, will attract others who want to be honest about their selves as well. What is this honesty? It is the fact that I'm not perfect. I'm changed, but I'm not perfect. I thought I would be perfect and I was confused as to why I wasn't perfected, but I'm not perfect.

Sin is not a problem to the Lord Jesus Christ. Sin is a problem for us. It makes us ashamed to approach the Sinless One. That is why humility is such an important factor in the life of a Christian. We must humble ourselves and continue to approach the Lord Jesus Christ through all of our problems.

Out of fellowship. What an asinine thing to say. Are you God? Are you perfect? Who or what causes you to be in "fellowship" to begin with? Not your works, not your behaviour, not your understanding. The Lords Work, by Grace through Faith.


Religion says you must kill the lamb, you must say your 10 hail marys, you must do according to this list in order to be back in "fellowship". All the while ignoring real fellowship. Which is coming to Christ and asking Him personally for the things that you need and want. Do you need fellowship? Ask the Lord. Do you need to be forgiven of your sin? Ask the Lord. Do you need mercy so your punishment isn't too severe (oh boy...). Then ask the Lord.

This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.

Its just a small light. But its still going.

 

[Jason0047]

In (2 Pt 2:7) the scriptures says that Lot was a just and righteous man. Jason, what made him a just man? He separated from Abraham and went his way into Sodom and Gomorrah because of strife. He was vexed by the filthy conversation and lifestyle of those who resided in those two areas. He was ready to deliver his two married daughters to the men of the city to do as they would saw fit to satisfy their sexually perverted desires they wanted to have with the men who came to deliver Lot. After being delivered from the destruction of S&G, Lot got drunk and was seduced by both his daughters, having incest with them and bearing children (Moabites & Ammonites). What exactly was it about Lot that made him a righteous man worthy of being delivered from destruction? All scripture is given for our learning, so what are we to learn from this story of Lot?

The Scriptures make it clear that we have to admit we are a sinner and accept the Lord. This is done with a Godly sorrow of our sin. If a believer sins again, they have to confess and forsake their sin in order to have mercy. Seeing Scripture teaches these truths for the saint, we know Lot could only be made righteous by the fact that he repented later of any evil he did in his life like offering up his daughters.

This story does not fit into your criteria of what it means to live a righteous life. Was Lot a saved man and did not his deliverance signify his salvation (Gen 18:26-33)? Why would the Holy Spirit inspire Peter to write of this man as a just man? Lot was not condemned with the world, but according to your numerous posts on this subject of OSAS you would no doubt have condemned Lot as a wicked and unrighteous man who committed unrepented sin with his daughters, a most despicable thing. Show me where Lot repented of these acts and deeds he committed with his daughters. Why did not God condemn him for these deeds? Instead he delivered him and preserved the offspring of his daughters who bore his children but later destroyed them.

This is an argument from silence. Just because Scripture does not state something does not mean we can ignore other truths that the Bible clearly teaches.

For people who want to do evil will say anything or do anything so as to justify their evil.

In fact, the Scriptures say that everyone that does evil hates the light (John 3:20).

 

[notuptome]

The unbelieving heart cannot arrive at the correct interpretation of scripture. Without a correct interpretation there can be no correct application.

Salvation is by grace apart from this there is no hope of knowledge of the truth. Religion is not a substitute for salvation by grace.

The Light of Gods Truth shines forth from the scriptures and abides in believing hearts. Only He can guide into the Truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

I sure hope God doesn't send all those with reading problems to burn in the lake of fire..

All those who are mentally handicapped whereby they do not know right from wrong will obviously be saved. For the Scriptures say that where there is no law, sin is not imputed. As for those who have a reading problem, but they have access to audio readings of the Bible are without excuse. But to whom much is given much is required; And the reverse of that is also true.

 

[Jason0047]

The unbelieving heart cannot arrive at the correct interpretation of scripture. Without a correct interpretation there can be no correct application.

Salvation is by grace apart from this there is no hope of knowledge of the truth. Religion is not a substitute for salvation by grace.

The Light of Gods Truth shines forth from the scriptures and abides in believing hearts. Only He can guide into the Truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Those who truly believe Jesus do what He actually says and teaches that to others.

 

[flob]

No, Jesus does it, thru you. Philippians 1:6

 

[notuptome]

Those who truly believe Jesus do what He actually says and teaches that to others.

Until you know Him by grace you can do nothing. Grace saves. Grace teaches. Grace puts the virtue in works.

You cannot lose what only God can give you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Have you found any of these OSAS "Proponents" yet? I haven't. I have experienced you lumping people in with these alleged OSAS proponents though -- simply for holding the belief that we, as a part of the human condition, are sinners.

Uh, they say they believe in OSAS. That makes them an OSAS Proponent; And from many years of talking to OSAS Proponents, they all express varying degrees of what OSAS means to them.

 

[BradC]

The Scriptures make it clear that we have to admit we are a sinner and accept the Lord. This is done with a Godly sorrow of our sin. If a believer sins again, they have to confess and forsake their sin in order to have mercy. Seeing Scripture teaches these truths for the saint, we know Lot could only be made righteous by the fact that he repented later of any evil he did in his life like offering up his daughters.



This is an argument from silence. Just because Scripture does not state something does not mean we can ignore other truths that the Bible clearly teaches.

For people who want to do evil will say anything or do anything so as to justify their evil.

In fact, the Scriptures say that everyone that does evil hates the light (John 3:20).

If you are going to be skilful in the word of righteousness, you can not ignore that story.

 

[Jason0047]

If you are going to be skilful in the word of righteousness, you can not ignore that story.

Nowhere in that story does it say they went to the bathroom, either. But to say that they didn't do so is just silly. One could argue from silence that they didn't do so (But we know by other truths that it is not the case). Seeing you do not believe in the truths on salvation that I mentioned from Scripture, you are naturally going to take a story on it's point of slience and make it a case where none really exists.

 

[Jason0047]

Until you know Him by grace you can do nothing. Grace saves. Grace teaches. Grace puts the virtue in works.

You cannot lose what only God can give you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Did Adam and Eve have fellowship with God? Did they fall from grace? What makes you better than them? Why do you think God is a respecter of persons by treating you more special than them?