I'm Curious about something

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2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#1
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#1
For all those who believe that the book of Revelation is still to come,
and use Daniel, and Zechariah to proclaim that these things are literal
events still to happen, what do you do with these scriptures?

Ignore them?

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.




 
R

rodogg

Guest
#2
#2
How does that change anything?
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#3
#3
2knowhim said:
For all those who believe that the book of Revelation is still to come,
and use Daniel, and Zechariah to proclaim that these things are literal
events still to happen, what do you do with these scriptures?

Ignore them?

Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.


Mat 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Click to expand...

In Matthew 11:13 Jesus is referring to John the Baptizer not John the Apostle / Revelator. With this said, if all prophecy ended with John the Baptizer then how would you explain the many New Testament prophecies spoken of the Apostles John, Paul as well as Jesus Himself?

Just a side note: You do realize that is widely accepted by most scholars (due to historical evidence) that the Book of Revelation was written by John after the events of 70 A.D.?
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#4
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
#4
I hate when people say that things in Revelation already happened and point to some history story. It's not the same thing but they do not believe that Revelation is literal so they don't care. The mark of the Beast is not the bar code on your cereal box. The bowl judgments I guess are what follows? Give me a break.
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#5
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#5
Crossfire said:
In Matthew 11:13 Jesus is referring to John the Baptizer not John the Apostle / Revelator. With this said, if all prophecy ended with John the Baptizer then how would you explain the many New Testament prophecies spoken of the Apostles John, Paul as well as Jesus Himself?

Just a side note: You do realize that is widely accepted by most scholars (due to historical evidence) that the Book of Revelation was written by John after the events of 70 A.D.?
Click to expand...

Hi Crossfire,

Yes I do realize that He was talking about John the baptist,
I believe John the Apostle wrote of What Jesus Christ had done,
In Great detail, By Revelation, by the Unveiling of Christ IN him.
Not about future events, not in the literal sense.

Paul, spoke by Revelation also, as he says:
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:



Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


John is talking about things that happened IN Christ and how those things would happen IN His people.

He is discribing our Redeemption and how it happened IN our Lord first.


Inward, not outward, look within.
This is where He abides and so does His Kingdom.


Blessings
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#6
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#6
jonathanbchristian said:
I hate when people say that things in Revelation already happened and point to some history story. It's not the same thing but they do not believe that Revelation is literal so they don't care. The mark of the Beast is not the bar code on your cereal box. The bowl judgments I guess are what follows? Give me a break.
Click to expand...

Dear Jonathan,

Hate is a mighty strong word.

The Book of Revelation is The Unveiling of Christ IN YOU
Not about events in the earth.

This is Good News, not doom and gloom.

Blessings
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#8
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
#8
2knowhim said:
Dear Jonathan,

Hate is a mighty strong word.

The Book of Revelation is The Unveiling of Christ IN YOU
Not about events in the earth.

This is Good News, not doom and gloom.

Blessings
Click to expand...

That's stupid to be honest. I guess we should avoid the fact that Revelation presents the events as happening literally on the Earth? No one is going to believe what you teach. It's the lamest excuse I have ever heard for not believing Revelation is literal.
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#9
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#9
rodogg said:
That is your opinion not fact.
Click to expand...

Dear Rodogg,

It is more than opinion, It is our hope of Glory.



Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Blessings
 
R

rodogg

Guest
#10
#10
jonathanbchristian said:

That's stupid to be honest. I guess we should avoid the fact that Revelation presents the events as happening literally on the Earth? No one is going to believe what you teach. It's the lamest excuse I have ever heard for not believing Revelation is literal.
Click to expand...
Be niceeeeeeeeee
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#11
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#11
jonathanbchristian said:
That's stupid to be honest. I guess we should avoid the fact that Revelation presents the events as happening literally on the Earth? No one is going to believe what you teach. It's the lamest excuse I have ever heard for not believing Revelation is literal.
Click to expand...


Dear jonathan,

So, Are you saying these things, that I say are foolishness unto you?


Blessings
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
#12
Why make it so personal. Does that aid in our learning?
I see some merit in listenning to others point of view even
when at the time i may not agree....there has been times
they were right. And thats the goal....right? :)
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#13
#13
2knowhim said:
Hi Crossfire,

Yes I do realize that He was talking about John the baptist,
I believe John the Apostle wrote of What Jesus Christ had done,
In Great detail, By Revelation, by the Unveiling of Christ IN him.
Not about future events, not in the literal sense.

Paul, spoke by Revelation also, as he says:
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:



Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


John is talking about things that happened IN Christ and how those things would happen IN His people.

He is discribing our Redeemption and how it happened IN our Lord first.


Inward, not outward, look within.
This is where He abides and so does His Kingdom.


Blessings
Click to expand...


I do understand why you emphasize on Christ within and I do agree to a great degree. I place much emphasis on those very things when given the opportunity to disciple others. I believe that the key between a life that is completely transformed after salvation and a life that is complacently saved is understanding the role of 'Christ within' which is the Holy Spirit residing in us.

However, that does not change the fact that much of what John talks about in the book of Revelation has yet to happen thus the book can not be a commentary on past events but a prophecy of future events.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
#14
My thinking is that revelation has a threefold fulfillment.
But i also believe it has to be taken as Christcentric.
Not landcentric or any other preconceived way.
 
M

mori

Guest
#15
#15
jonathanbchristian said:
It's the lamest excuse I have ever heard for not believing Revelation is literal.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a much less lame reason, rather than an excuse, is that some of us don't see Christ literally barfing up swords or stomping grapes while the world burns. Lambs have fewer than seven eyes and horns. Will there be literal dragons chasing interplanetary women through the wilderness?

I always wonder if people have actually read the thing.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#16
#16
Abiding said:
My thinking is that revelation has a threefold fulfillment.
But i also believe it has to be taken as Christcentric.
Not landcentric or any other preconceived way.
Click to expand...
I tend to lean toward simular reasoning. If there's one thing I've learned from the Old Testament is that God seems to move in cycles and seasons thus history tends to repeat itself if you know what to look for through the discernment of the Holy Spirit which is why there are many types and foreshadows throughout scripture.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#17
#17
Mori, are you saying be reasonable?
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#18
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#18
Crossfire said:
I do understand why you emphasize on Christ within and I do agree to a great degree. I place much emphasis on those very things when given the opportunity to disciple others. I believe that the key between a life that is completely transformed after salvation and a life that is complacently saved is understanding the role of 'Christ within' which is the Holy Spirit residing in us.

However, that does not change the fact that much of what John talks about in the book of Revelation has yet to happen thus the book can not be a commentary on past events but a prophecy of future events.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying, I think alot of the times we get focused on things that we've heard and been
taught most of our lives, and therein is a mental block of sorts, I am quilty of it too. for example:

The woman on the beast, if we look carefully at the things she has drawn us with in this world
you'll find that all of us, have been quilty of partaking of her danties, that is before Christ comes in
and deals with those things that we place much value on. "the things of the world"

I think most of us would agree that All Judgements from God are Righteous.
To me everything in the Book, talks about things that The Lord has, and is, and shall be, dealing with
in me.

For we know that through much tribulation do we enter into the Kingdom.
And for all those who will live godly, shall suffer persecution.
But all these things in the Book should Magnify The Lord and His Work, that He did, that He will do,
and that He is doing.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
This is the only way I can see it being future, as it unfolds within His people.
It is The Testimony of Jesus Christ that IS the Spirit of Prophecy.

Testimony:
From G3144; evidence given (judicially or generally): - record, report, testimony, witness.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#19
#19
2knowhim said:
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Click to expand...

When it comes to prophecy, I believe that the words which you have highlighted is the safest route. But that's just me. :)
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#20
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
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#20
Crossfire said:
When it comes to prophecy, I believe that the words which you have highlighted is the safest route. But that's just me. :)
Click to expand...

Dear Crossfire,

I don't understand what you mean, sorry.
 
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