I'm Worried About a Friend and Church of Christ

[SoulWeaver]

All the posts are there JabberJaw for others to read who said what, as well as the Scripture that is being discussed.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It is only you who twist the Scripture here.
It plainly says that baptism saves. And it also says that water in it is a picture or a symbol or a figure, of the baptism that now saves us, which is NOT the washing of flesh but the washing of conscience before God in Jesus. That is apostle Peter speaking. Sorry that you're trying to make water something more than what he said and then try and martyrize yourself, when your adding to the Word is not readily accepted.

 

[SoulWeaver]

New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

New Living Translation
And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

English Standard Version
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

New American Standard Bible
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

King James Bible
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

International Standard Version
Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also, not by removing dirt from the body, but by asking God for a clear conscience based on the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah,

NET Bible
And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you--not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For you also are saved in it by that simile in baptism, not when you wash the body from impurity, but when you confess God with a pure conscience, and by the resurrection of Yeshua, The Messiah,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn't save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Unto the figure of which the baptism that does now correspond saves us (not taking away the uncleanness of the flesh, but giving testimony of a good conscience before God) by the resurrection of Jesus, the Christ,

King James 2000 Bible
The like figure unto which even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

American King James Version
The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

American Standard Version
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Darby Bible Translation
which figure also now saves you, [even] baptism, not a putting away of [the] filth of flesh, but [the] demand as before God of a good conscience, by [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ,

English Revised Version
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

Webster's Bible Translation
The like figure to which, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Weymouth New Testament
And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you--not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Young's Literal Translation
also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,



There is no mistranslation - every translation renders well what apostle Peter said.

 

[dcontroversal]

Either you cannot understand your bible, or you believe it to be the uninspired word of God, because the bible cannot contradict its self or God and the Holy spirit failed miserably in providential preservation, if you do believe that the bible is the inspired word of God then you would accept even one verse that says baptism saves (though there are more) and those that say faith saves, and accept them both to be true, otherwise you may as well throw your bible away because there is no way to know what is or is not true, and God left man to pick and choose (roll your own) religion.

I suggest you get a good GREEK dictionary and study every time the word save, salvation is used and then pay attention to the other words used in context and open your eyes to what immersion actually is and what it actually represents..........

IT is a PICTURE and PUBLIC TESTIMONY of something that you ALREADY POSSESS......while your at it look up and study LIKE FIGURE and open your eyes before you find out you trusted into something that will take you a place without water......

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

To the Op....... COC teaches a false doctrine of works=righteousness. Only Christ alone can save not man,....... no matter how hard we try. Tell your friend to pick up a bible. Read it, and ask God to lead them where He will have them go.

 

[SeaBass]

To the Op....... COC teaches a false doctrine of works=righteousness. Only Christ alone can save not man,....... no matter how hard we try. Tell your friend to pick up a bible. Read it, and ask God to lead them where He will have them go.

The teaching that one must obey to be righteous comes from the bible, not the church of Christ.

In Rom 6:16, Paul says you serve either one of two master. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Which do you serve?

 

[SeaBass]

Of course being a follower of Campbell you would promote this heretical dogma....How about the scriptures that outnumber your out of context verses 20 to one that teach faith based upon mercy and grace for salvation.......!

Your watered down blood will not save.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe<---NO WATER or works added to this verse...if water was necessary it would say

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe, are immersed, do many wonderful works and jump through hoops like a dog!

If you believe that Jesus has been raise from the dead.....
EVEN those who believe on HIS NAME....
Whosever believeth in HIM.....

You guys will find out one day, albeit too late, that your watered down Campbellite doctrine had no power!

You continue to spread the lie I follow Campbell. I get what I believe from reading the bible, I have never read anything Campbell may have ever written.

The truth of the bible has exposed your false teachings time and again and you are so full of hate because of it you have nothing left to do but make personal attacks and tell unfounded lies.

 

[SeaBass]

The CoC taught me more about the Bible, in the 12 years I was there, than I can ever thank them for. But, eventually, I outgrew the dead traditionalism, and wanted a living relationship with Jesus. I loved my time there, but I could never go back now, because I have found so much more.

What "dead traditionalism" are you talking about?

 

[Willie-T]

You learned how to will worship

Sorry, that's a little too cryptic for me to be able to figure out what you are trying to say.

 

[SeaBass]

The Church of Christ, INDEED, teaches that it is "the water," of Baptism "that saves," consequently - not The Blood of Jesus!!!

This simply is not true.

The BIBLE teaches Christ washed us from our sins in His own blood, Rev 1:5

The BIBLE teaches Christ shed His blood that washes away sins in His death, Jn 19:34.

So one must have a way into Christ's death where His shed blood is and the BIBLE teaches water baptism is what puts one into the death of Christ where His blood then washes away sins, Rom 6:3-5.

 

[dcontroversal]

You continue to spread the lie I follow Campbell. I get what I believe from reading the bible, I have never read anything Campbell may have ever written.

The truth of the bible has exposed your false teachings time and again and you are so full of hate because of it you have nothing left to do but make personal attacks and tell unfounded lies.

Do you go to a COC church? You follow Campbell end of story.....The bible fully exposes the false teaching for sure.....and it is what you teach...a watered down self centered works for salvation dogma which is refuted, denied and condemned by the bible....so....now you accuse me of HATE....<---Satan is the accuser of the brethren and the works of your father you will do...!

 

[dcontroversal]

What "dead traditionalism" are you talking about?

You should know..it is what you practice and preach......

 

[SeaBass]

Do you go to a COC church? You follow Campbell end of story.....The bible fully exposes the false teaching for sure.....and it is what you teach...a watered down self centered works for salvation dogma which is refuted, denied and condemned by the bible....so....now you accuse me of HATE....<---Satan is the accuser of the brethren and the works of your father you will do...!

Prove this lie!

How can I follow someone when I do not even know all of what he has said or written?

Your post above is seething with hate. You are not even debating what's in the bible but just hurling hate and insults.

 

[SeaBass]

You should know..it is what you practice and preach......

I'm not a mind reader so I do not know exactly what he is speaking about.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

SeaBass

Re: I'm Worried About a Friend and Church of Christ

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Do you go to a COC church? You follow Campbell end of story.....The bible fully exposes the false teaching for sure.....and it is what you teach...a watered down self centered works for salvation dogma which is refuted, denied and condemned by the bible....so....now you accuse me of HATE....<---Satan is the accuser of the brethren and the works of your father you will do...!


Prove this lie!

How can I follow someone when I do not even know all of what he has said or written?

Your post above is seething with hate. You are not even debating what's in the bible but just hurling hate and insults.
​

I have been a member of the church of Christ for 30+ years. Evidently you have some issue with the Lord's church. Instead of continuing to make untruthful and unproven statements about the church of Christ, would you like to pick a topic to debate about?

You are a Campbellite and you know it.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Yes baptism does save...
The problem is that you or your church add to the Bible and say it's the WATER baptism that saves us... when the very verse you quoted says: the water is only "like a figure" or a symbol or parable of THAT BAPTISM THAT SAVES US (the fire baptism that John the Baptist said Jesus would baptize with)...

You cannot make the bible conform to your man made doctrine, and continue to twist what those that use only the doctrine of Christ to say something they do not... NOBODY from the church of Christ says that the water saves anyone, in fact they don't say the rite its self (alone) saves, they say that these following things save together, that's right, all together, than NO ONE THING SAVES :

Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17

Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6

Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30

Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37

Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21

Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1 John 1:6-9

Your (and others) FALSE accusation that those of the church of Christ think the "water" saves is a LIE, you have been told time and time again it is the blood of Christ that washes away the sins, it is the burial in water, a representation of the "death burial and resurrection" that puts one "in Christ" (Rom 6:3-4), and if you don't conform to the other commands I posted above, you were not baptized, you only got wet (like most of you "outward showing of an inward faith" jokers.)

 

[Jabberjaw]

Do you go to a COC church? You follow Campbell end of story.....The bible fully exposes the false teaching for sure.....and it is what you teach...a watered down self centered works for salvation dogma which is refuted, denied and condemned by the bible....so....now you accuse me of HATE....<---Satan is the accuser of the brethren and the works of your father you will do...!

Can you read this passage? :

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You know who said that? Christ Jesus, it would be His church, the church of Christ, Campbell was not even thought of yet...

Can you read this verse?:

Romans 16:16 (KJV)
16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

Campbell was not even around then...

can you find your newfangled denomination in the word of God? did Christ start it? or did Luther? or John Calvin? or Charles Taze Russel?

You don't even have the guts to say who your apostate non-biblical so called assembly is, you hide and try and slam others that are not ashamed of the "Gospel of Christ" while you preach another (your own) gospel.

I am glad the OP's friend is reading the bible and not listening to your man made dogma

 

[Jabberjaw]

You are a Campbellite and you know it.

Campbell is a man, not to be followed by anyone, you don't follow Christ and his doctrine as do the churches of Christ, so what man do you follow?

 

[Jabberjaw]

I suggest you get a good GREEK dictionary and study every time the word save, salvation is used and then pay attention to the other words used in context and open your eyes to what immersion actually is and what it actually represents..........

IT is a PICTURE and PUBLIC TESTIMONY of something that you ALREADY POSSESS......while your at it look up and study LIKE FIGURE and open your eyes before you find out you trusted into something that will take you a place without water......

I suggest your not quite educated enough to understand a Greek dictionary, you have enough problems with the English, your best left to the translators, maybe once you put down your man made doctrine and just go by the bible until you can understand what God said without requiring one of these self elevated self proclaimed scholars you follow to miss direct you... then you can come back and tell me what I don't know about Greek...

You have no clue what "like figure" or "antitype" or any other translated word from "αντιτυπον" means, so stop pretending...

I am glad the OP's friend has not listened clueless people like you and unlike you, actually reading their bible, good for that person...

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Campbell is a man, not to be followed by anyone, you don't follow Christ and his doctrine as do the churches of Christ, so what man do you follow?

Campbellite
"The term "Campbellite" is most often applied to the more conservative branches of the movement, including the Churches of Christand theChristian churches and churches of Christ."

1 John 4:20
Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

 

[mailmandan]

The teaching that one must obey to be righteous comes from the bible, not the church of Christ.

We must obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) to become righteous.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (AND NOT TRUSTING IN OUR WORKS) we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and are no longer "servants of sin unto death."

In Rom 6:16, Paul says you serve either one of two master. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

There is a contrast here between servants. There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants of sin unto death, or servants of obedience unto righteousness. Once again, when we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (AND NOT TRUSTING IN OUR WORKS) we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

I serve #2. Which do you serve?

Salvation by works is not obedience and is not serving #2. You continue to misinterpret Romans 6:16 by stressing "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience that follow faith are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works. We become "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (and are no longer servants of sin unto death) the very moment that we BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. ​