immeasurable

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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One thing I have been looking at in a hope for some insight is. In the bible the Holy Spirit seems to use two kinds of measurements . One the measure of man. the literal . Inches, feet, yard meters e.t.c. And there seems to be a golden measure that comes along side as a parable called a golden reed .Gold is used to represent the purity of God.

The Golden measure would appear to be one that is found by looking at the parables and given the hidden spiritual understanding. Like all of the measurement of men are used as metaphors to represent the bride of Christ the church.

He who spoke with me had for a measure, a golden reed, to measure the city (Christ bride) , its gates, and its walls. The city (Christ bride)is square, and its length is as great as its width. He measured the city (Christ's bride) with the reed, twelve thousand twelve stadia. Its length, width, and height are equal. Its wall is one hundred forty-four cubits, by the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. The construction of its wall was jasper. The city (Christ's bride) was pure gold, like pure glass. Revelation 21:16-18
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
One thing I have been looking at in a hope for some insight is. In the bible the Holy Spirit seems to use two kinds of measurements . One the measure of man. the literal . Inches, feet, yard meters e.t.c. And there seems to be a golden measure that comes along side as a parable called a golden reed .Gold is used to represent the purity of God.

The Golden measure would appear to be one that is found by looking at the parables and given the hidden spiritual understanding. Like all of the measurement of men are used as metaphors to represent the bride of Christ the church.

He who spoke with me had for a measure, a golden reed, to measure the city (Christ bride) , its gates, and its walls. The city (Christ bride)is square, and its length is as great as its width. He measured the city (Christ's bride) with the reed, twelve thousand twelve stadia. Its length, width, and height are equal. Its wall is one hundred forty-four cubits, by the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. The construction of its wall was jasper. The city (Christ's bride) was pure gold, like pure glass. Revelation 21:16-18
by the measure of a man ——— that is of an angel

the mystery probably is somewhere between these two
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,575
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yes, many measures, and many ways to be immeasurable.
the mathematical definition of measure is a little complicated, it takes defining several terms of the definition too. i thought maybe too complex to post for now. but to try to explain it 'simply' it is the smallest cover of a set -- where a 'cover' is a collection of non-overlapping (("disjoint")) sets that, if you add them all together, account for an whole set. think of a bed that you are trying to make a quilt for, any cover is an arrangement of possible quilt pieces that don't overlap and don't leave any gaps between them, and cover up the whole bed. it could be too big, or be just the right size. the smallest possible one that covers the whole bed is the 'measure' -- which is of course a really shoddy analogy and it's more technical than that.. but it's a start.


so, one way to be immeasurable is for there to be no way to not leave gaps.
another way is if there is no way to not leave some part of the bed not covered up -- like you can't make the quilt big enough
another way is if it is not possible not to overlap


'uncountable' is another word that has a special meaning in math that may not be intuitive. it means you can't map something in a 1:1 & onto way to the positive integers. there are a number of ways something can be uncountable, and there are many infinite things that are 'countable'

another way to be immeasurable is to have only uncountable covers.

.. .but i don't want this thread to get too technical yet. we'll get lost lol.. and i probably will too; i haven't actually had a measure theory class yet, tho when i eventually go back to finish, it's the one thing i know i really want to learn.

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in a few of the verses on page 1, God is also described qualitatively immeasurable/unsearchable -- for example ((actually i don't think i posted this one yet?))

Behold, God is exalted, and we do not know Him; The number of His years is unsearchable.
(Job 36:26)

not trying to be too technical at this point, i'm lumping 'unsearchable' and 'uncountable' and 'immeasurable' all together as one set of very similar things; maybe at some point i'll feel confident about differentiating :)

Obviously "immeasurable" could be defined in many different ways.

But as we discuss that...

I really think we should stay away from devolving into discussions of infinite divisibility and infinite regression.
Those are not things which exist in the physical universe.
I think I can also show they don't exist in the spiritual universe.
Therefore, I cannot see there is any realm of "reality" in which infinite divisibility or infinite regression can be said to exist... they only exist in the theoretical realm of mathematics, and because mathematics are non-physical, they CANNOT, by definition, correspond to all the same properties as the physical. And one of these properties which do not share correspondence between the physical and the theoretical is the property of infinite divisibility... and this is provable.

Therefore, you cannot point at any physical thing, of any size or any makeup, and say, "Infinity exists within this thing, and I can prove it because of infinite divisibility."

That's not at thing.

I also think a discussion of this would bore everyone to tears.


.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
23,856
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Obviously "immeasurable" could be defined in many different ways.

But as we discuss that...

I really think we should stay away from devolving into discussions of infinite divisibility and infinite regression.
Those are not things which exist in the physical universe.
I think I can also show they don't exist in the spiritual universe.
Therefore, I cannot see there is any realm of "reality" in which infinite divisibility or infinite regression can be said to exist... they only exist in the theoretical realm of mathematics, and because mathematics are non-physical, they CANNOT, by definition, correspond to all the same properties as the physical. And one of these properties which do not share correspondence between the physical and the theoretical is the property of infinite divisibility... and this is provable.

Therefore, you cannot point at any physical thing, of any size or any makeup, and say, "Infinity exists within this thing, and I can prove it because of infinite divisibility."

That's not at thing.

I also think a discussion of this would bore everyone to tears.


.
is time discrete?
 

Poinsetta

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2018
2,225
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The measure of the smell of my blankie is immeasurable 😂
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
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Omnipresent, hold on to your seats as you read this

God is so omnipresent
He is in your eyes that you see with
Ears that you hear with
Nose that you smell with
Tongue that you taste with
And, skin that you feel with

Good can see though your eyes
Hear through your ears
Smell with your nose
Taste with your tongue
And feel with your skin

Intense?
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
Omnipresent, hold on to your seats as you read this

God is so omnipresent
He is in your eyes that you see with
Ears that you hear with
Nose that you smell with
Tongue that you taste with
And, skin that you feel with

Good can see though your eyes
Hear through your ears
Smell with your nose
Taste with your tongue
And feel with your skin

Intense?
How can we meditate all this at once?

Too much!
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
God is so everywhere, watching everything, that this can cause paranoia

May grace be bigger and enlarged
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
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God is fully aware of your exact awareness at any moment

And God is also aware of everything outside of your awareness, all at the same time

Greater than our finite awareness
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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Good can even control his amount of solvereignty

And the degrees of all his other attributes

Like humbled himself to become flesh
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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If we are held accountable for all this knowledge

We would fall way short - Romans 3:23
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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by the measure of a man ——— that is of an angel

the mystery probably is somewhere between these two
I think measure of man as a angel .Angel simply mean messenger. There are human messengers as well as unseen messengers It would refer to how we usually measure .And the measure of faith, the understanding that does come from the parables .The golden reed .
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
I think measure of man as a angel .Angel simply mean messenger. There are human messengers as well as unseen messengers It would refer to how we usually measure .And the measure of faith, the understanding that does come from the parables .The golden reed .
What I find interesting in

rev 21:16
The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadia in length and width and height.

Is the use of the word stadia/stadion,

The term stadia comes from the plural of the Greek stadion, the word for a distance of 185 to 192 metres (607-630 ft). A very similar length is the modern furlong, or eighth of a mile, 660 ft. A "stadion" was also an athletic venue, with lengths laid out for competition and seats for spectators.

so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles.

Today we call these athletic stadiums