immortality of the soul!

Yahshua · Jun 11, 2017

It's Death. The last enemy is death. That's what we're being saved from. I think one of the great deceptions of Satan has been to change the original problem into a new problem, which effectively creates a foundation where the gospel is tainted. But to understand the true problem we have to go back to the beginning.

Without adding to or taking away from the words given, we read...

1. God shaped dust, added his breath to it, and man became a living soul

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- "spirit" is God's "breath of life"
- man "is" a living soul (a "being" made by breathing life into dust)
- man came from the earth, not from heaven.
- man didn't exist prior to formed dust being breathed into by God
- original man exists as a fleshy (earthly) being not a spirit (heavenly) being

2. God warns man that if he sins he will surely die.

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- since "to live" means to exist, "to die" means to no longer exist
- to no longer exist is to return to the state before man was breathed into
- man's state before being breathed into was "lifeless dust"
- so to surely "die" = to surely "return to the lifeless dust of the earth man came from and no longer exist"

3. Man is deceived into sinning against God and God sentences man

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- man is sentenced to work hard for his food until he returns to the earth
- returns to the earth = dead = no longer exists
- man's entire body must die (every cell of him) this includes all seeds inside him
- so all seeds inside the original man are also condemned to death before they're even born

------

Even if one doesn't agree with this, just take a moment and entertain the idea that 'once you die you no longer exist *in any way*, anywhere...forever'. How terrifying is this proposition? No redemption. No way to be saved from this inevitability. To cease to exist in every way. No thoughts. No consciousness. Just contemplate how "final" it is; the doom of it all. The waste of time. The hopelessness.

^This is the tragedy of every seed in Adam; this is what the living soul is utterly afraid of eventually facing deep down. And so knowing this is what one will face one day soon, it motivates the soul to do *whatever* he/she can possibly do for *self* in this life. The lusts of the flesh, lusts of the eyes, pride of life (i.e. make a name for oneself that will never be forgotten and/or have many children) or living one's life in complete selfishness and thus sinning against God daily.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for "that" {i.e. because of "DEATH"} all have sinned

Because Adam sinned we'll completely cease to exist one day...and because we'll completely cease to exist one day, we sin against God, which further deserves death. Let the law/cycle of "sin and death" begin. Satan was the murderer of all from the beginning.

This is the original problem that Christ was sent to save us from: death; to cease from existing. It's why he called himself "the *resurrection* and the *life*" because through him believers no longer need to fear death in any way. And if the fear is gone then what sting does death have to tempt us to live a life of selfishness and sin (1 Corinthians 15:55-56)? This is also why the book of life is understood as a book of God's memory. As long as God remembers us in that book the believer in Christ is not doomed like everyone else is. God offers eternal life to all, but only for those in Christ receive it. A man from Adam (who's not from Christ) doesn't have eternal life in himself in any form.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

This is why it's necessary for each person from Adam to be "born anew" *in* Christ, the 2nd Adam.

...But with a change from the original problem of Death, and the introduction of the doctrine of "immortal soul", came a necessity also to change the solution to where belief in Christ simply saves an "inherently immortal person from Adam" from a place of eternal suffering when their physical body inevitably expires...because of the continued belief that "surely you will not die but will be as God" who also has unending life within himself.

Muzungu256 · Jun 11, 2017

Yahshua said:

It's Death. The last enemy is death. That's what we're being saved from. I think one of the great deceptions of Satan has been to change the original problem into a new problem, which effectively creates a foundation where the gospel is tainted. But to understand the true problem we have to go back to the beginning.

Without adding to or taking away from the words given, we read...

1. God shaped dust, added his breath to it, and man became a living soul

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- "spirit" is God's "breath of life"
- man "is" a living soul (a "being" made by breathing life into dust)
- man came from the earth, not from heaven.
- man didn't exist prior to formed dust being breathed into by God
- original man exists as a fleshy (earthly) being not a spirit (heavenly) being

2. God warns man that if he sins he will surely die.

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- since "to live" means to exist, "to die" means to no longer exist
- to no longer exist is to return to the state before man was breathed into
- man's state before being breathed into was "lifeless dust"
- so to surely "die" = to surely "return to the lifeless dust of the earth man came from and no longer exist"

3. Man is deceived into sinning against God and God sentences man

Because we're given nothing else, we have to accept that:

- man is sentenced to work hard for his food until he returns to the earth
- returns to the earth = dead = no longer exists
- man's entire body must die (every cell of him) this includes all seeds inside him
- so all seeds inside the original man are also condemned to death before they're even born

------

Even if one doesn't agree with this, just take a moment and entertain the idea that 'once you die you no longer exist *in any way*, anywhere...forever'. How terrifying is this proposition? No redemption. No way to be saved from this inevitability. To cease to exist in every way. No thoughts. No consciousness. Just contemplate how "final" it is; the doom of it all. The waste of time. The hopelessness.

^This is the tragedy of every seed in Adam; this is what the living soul is utterly afraid of eventually facing deep down. And so knowing this is what one will face one day soon, it motivates the soul to do *whatever* he/she can possibly do for *self* in this life. The lusts of the flesh, lusts of the eyes, pride of life (i.e. make a name for oneself that will never be forgotten and/or have many children) or living one's life in complete selfishness and thus sinning against God daily.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for "that" {i.e. because of "DEATH"} all have sinned

Because Adam sinned we'll completely cease to exist one day...and because we'll completely cease to exist one day, we sin against God, which further deserves death. Let the law/cycle of "sin and death" begin. Satan was the murderer of all from the beginning.

This is the original problem that Christ was sent to save us from: death; to cease from existing. It's why he called himself "the *resurrection* and the *life*" because through him believers no longer need to fear death in any way. And if the fear is gone then what sting does death have to tempt us to live a life of selfishness and sin (1 Corinthians 15:55-56)? This is also why the book of life is understood as a book of God's memory. As long as God remembers us in that book the believer in Christ is not doomed like everyone else is. God offers eternal life to all, but only for those in Christ receive it. A man from Adam (who's not from Christ) doesn't have eternal life in himself in any form.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

This is why it's necessary for each person from Adam to be "born anew" *in* Christ, the 2nd Adam.

...But with a change from the original problem of Death, and the introduction of the doctrine of "immortal soul", came a necessity also to change the solution to where belief in Christ simply saves an "inherently immortal person from Adam" from a place of eternal suffering when their physical body inevitably expires...because of the continued belief that "surely you will not die but will be as God" who also has unending life within himself.

isnt this what jehovah witnesses teach?????????????? here is how i and even some church fathers looked at it: death is separation............. physical death is separation of body and soul.................. spiritual death is separation from God............. only a few cults believe in that thing you said if i overstand correctly its you die and thats it no soul no nothing so im afraid of it

Meggido · Jun 11, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

The Bible says hell and death are not forever and cast into the lake of fire, right?

The Bible also says that the new Jerusalem on the new earth is the final destination and not heaven, right?

Meggido · Jun 11, 2017

MattforJesus said:

We are body,soul,spirit.

All spirits go back to God who gave them no matter how the person acted on earth,so the spirit will not be a part of anyone in the afterlife.

The saints will put off the flesh,and the wicked will feel the affects of the flesh.

The soul will live on forever,with the saints,soul,and a glorified body,and the wicked,soul,and feeling the affects of the flesh for eternity,which it could be that they are stuck with a fleshy body that cannot perish,because they loved the ways of the flesh.

I find it Interesting that Jesus body[flesh] stayed with him after he rose again, what about you?

Muzungu256 · Jun 11, 2017

Meggido said:

tthis is true but i think its just easier to say go to heaven............. since its heavenly and its also called HEAVENLY jerusalem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yonah · Jun 11, 2017

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

my main question concerning the immortality of the soul is this: why would eternal life be a gift if we already had it?
oh one more: why did Adam and eve be forbidden to eat of the tree of life AFTER the Fall? seems to me if we were immortal the scriptures would read a bit differently, I agree with Magenta she is correct, the concept of immortality of the soul cannot be proven by a couple of text speaking of eternal torment, and further more the biblical text clearly states the opposite.

Meggido · Jun 11, 2017

Yonah said:

Gen 3.22 tell us why Adam & Eve were forbidden to eat of the tree of life after the fall. If they had they would have lived in their sin and iniquity forever.

Gen 3.22-24
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— [SUP]23 [/SUP]therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

To understand immortality and eternal life, you must look at Jesus after he rose again from the dead. If you study this out we come to learn some very important things.

We will have a body, spirit an soul.
Our body may even include scars of our testimony of overcoming[Jesus had scars]
Jesus could move through the physical and spiritual realms at will.
Jesus ate and drank after he was risen from the dead.
Jesus could be recognized by those who knew him.
Jesus recognized those he knew.
Jesus said he was not a Ghost or Spirit, does a ghost have flesh and bones?

Likewise we can look at Adam and Eve after before the fall. When they realized they were naked does not mean they saw they were nude, or anything related to physical nudity. They knew the immortality and glory of their body was gone, stolen, taken away by the enemy.

The eyes that were opened were not their physical eyes, it was the eyes of their heart-See Ephesians 1.18 here to understand.

Now here is something to consider. God said they could eat from ANY tree, if they had eaten form the tree of life and not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil what would have happened?

prove-all · Jun 11, 2017

Meggido said:

Today we live in a world of awesome progress and advancement, yet paradoxically
of appalling evils. The baffling question today is, why cannot the minds that can
learn to fly to the moon and back, transplant hearts, produce computers and
technological marvels, solve their own problems? Why no peace in the world?

Read the account at the beginning of Genesis 3. The teaching of the two trees was the
first test mankind faced. Adam and Eve’s first major decision was to choose which of
the two trees they would eat from.

That decision set the course of human civilization!
“The one tree was the TREE OF LIFE, the other the TREE OF DEATH.
One is the way of GOD; the other is the way of SATAN.” It’s that simple!

The roots are the most important part of a tree: They anchor the tree to the ground.
The roots are the source of nourishment for the branches and fruit. The roots
determine how large a tree can grow, how many branches it can support, what kind
of fruit it produces and how much. Trees can survive without fruit, and sometimes
without branches, but no tree can survive without healthy roots!

the root of that tree—from which it gathers all of its life, and everything comes
from the root—IS GOD. Then the main trunk of the tree is the SPIRIT OF GOD.

If Adam had taken from the tree of life, he would have eaten fruit produced by the
tree, with God at its roots and received the Spirit of God. Eating from the tree of life
meant obeying God, accepting God’s revealed knowledge; obeying God’s word.

If Adam had taken the tree of life, God would have revealed His way of living—to Adam.

But eating from the tree of death meant taking of fruit produced by the spirit of Satan,
originating from Satan at its roots. Satan rejected God and decided for himself what
was right and wrong. By eating from Satan’s tree, Adam made it his prerogative to
decide what was good and evil, right and wrong. Adam made the choice and that
mankind was to be influenced and led by the spirit of the devil.

from God flows LIFE in the form of the Holy Spirit that is injected into those who take
of this tree. And with life comes the knowledge of the WAY OF LIFE (of good and evil)

—love toward God and love toward neighbor. Then the very many other branches are all of
the other things that come under love toward God and love toward neighbor. In other words,
other ways that you love God and that you love neighbor. Then it comes out to the branches
and the final fruit. And the FRUIT borne you’ll see is … LOVE, and JOY, and PEACE, and
HAPPINESS, and ACCOMPLISHMENT, UNITY, and TOGETHERNESS, and all of
[the other fruits of God’s Holy Spirit].

“Now if Adam had taken of that fruit, he would have taken what came from the ROOT
and up through the trunk of the tree. He would have had the SPIRIT of the LIFE OF GOD.

He would have done the WAY OF GOD—and [had] the SPIRIT OF GOD to give him the
knowledge of that way—to give him the LOVE to fulfill that way—to give him the POWER
to live that way and then to produce the fruit of PEACE, and JOY, and HAPPINESS, and
of every kind of abundance and everything that mankind could want.”

“Had Adam taken of the proffered tree of life the whole course of civilization would have
been entirely different. Peace, happiness, joy, health and abundance would have spread
over the Earth.” Adam rejected this way of life for mankind when he turned his back on
the tree of life and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or the tree of death

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil appeared beautiful and good for food, but
inside it was vile and rotten. “[T]he root of that tree, “is Satan, and the spirit of Satan
coming up through the trunk. And then the various ways that it leads to are the ways

of COMPETITION, of VANITY, exalting the SELF even ABOVE GOD, of COMPETITION,
of STRIFE, of ENVY, of JEALOUSY, of BITTERNESS, … of OPPOSITION,
of DISHARMONY and DISUNITY in every way; and that ENDS IN DEATH.”

God closed off access to the tree of life after Adam and Eve’s sin (Genesis 3:22-24).
By eating of the wrong tree, Adam decided it would be man’s prerogative to decide
for himself what is good and what is evil, what is right and what is wrong.

Man had turned his back on the Holy Spirit of God, flowing from the roots of the tree
of life through the trunk. He had rejected the law of God, pictured by the branches;
he rejected the fruits of the Spirit, symbolized by the fruits hanging from the tree.

Genesis reveals the history of the world. The tree of life symbolized the way of God,
the law of God, the knowledge of God. If Adam had eaten from that tree, mankind
could have thrived on the fruits produced by the tree of life; he would have been given
access to the Spirit of God and developed the mind of God. Peace, abundance, joy and
stability could have encompassed the Earth.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, on the other hand, was the tree of Satan—
the tree of death. With this tree, Adam would make it his prerogative to decide for himself,
under the influence of the devil, what was right and what was wrong, what was good and
what was evil. If he made the decision to eat from this tree, he would be eating the fruits
created by the spirit of Satan, a spirit of envy, vanity, self-centered lust that results in
sickness, violence, jealous rage and, ultimately, death.

What happened on that day in the Garden of Eden is God wants
the two trees to be the premise on which we build our knowledge:
the two trees was essentially the first piece of instruction given to Adam.

THIS WORLD IS FILLED WITH EVIDENCE SHOWING WHAT TREE ADAM ATE FROM!

Zmouth · Jun 12, 2017

Meggido said:

Yea, surely God hath said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

9 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Genesis 1:29

Some might say that 'man' (male and female) was was given the seed from herbs (non-woody plants) and the nuts from trees (woody plants) for meat. Then again others might not.

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Gen 1:30

But I think the jist of the story was to listen to the LORD since man doth not live by bread alone.

Yet what would have happened if they ate from the tree of life?

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:3

LoveGodForever · Jun 12, 2017

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die." (Eze 18:1-4)

Miri · Jun 12, 2017

I suspect the word soul has become a bit confused by the King James Version.
At the time it was written it was common for the word Soul to be used for the word people.
Im sure there are places when soul should read person or people.

For example, a ship goes down and all souls were lost as sea etc. It was a common
way of referring to a person. "Oh poor soul" another example.

LFG I'm just using your verse as an example by the way, no other reason.

Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son
is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:4 NKJV
[4] "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son
is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

Ezekiel 18:4 NLT
[4] For all people are mine to judge-both parents and children alike. And this is
my rule: The person who sins is the one who will die.

Ezekiel 18:4 NIV
[4] For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child---both alike belong
to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

I don't know what the Greek is, but it would be interesting to know.

Anyway personally I believe we are body, soul and spirit. We are made in the image of
a triune God, so it makes sense that we are triune beings.

In my case my body is this 5" 1' tall object, overweight but working on that (I've lost
11 lb since easter! Hurray)

My soul is me, my personality, that part of me that agrees or disagrees on CC and
decides how agreeable I will be in my disagreement. Lol

My spirit is that part of me which was made to have communion with God, but the fall
got in the way and it became separated from God, until the age of around 11 or so.
When I came to know Jesus. Until that happened I did not know God and my spirit
was quite frankly subject to the whims of Satan even though I did not realise it.

I believe that in eternity we will still be triune beings, a new everlasting resurrection body,
us our soul, we will still be us, still have different personalities and also spirit but knowing
God fully.

How dark it will be for those not knowing salvation. Cut off from God for eternity.
How awful to have a spirit cut off from God completely, cut off from everything good, cut
off from love itself. Maybe that is the true torment?

Ahwatukee · Jun 12, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hello LoveGodForever,

The problem is how you are interpreting "it shall die." The understanding from scripture is that, everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Life and death are two states of conscious existence. Life is defined as on-going existence in the kingdom of God. While death is on-going existence in separation from God in the lake of fire. Death is not annihilation or none existence. The rich man, of the rich man and Lazarus fame, went down into Sheol/Hades where he was conscious and aware. He could see, hear and feel the torment of the flame. That rich man is still there to this day in that state of torment as I write this and will be until after the millennial period at the great throne judgment, where at which time, he will be resurrected out and will stand before God to be held accountable for all of his sins.

It is just a matter of understanding the meanings of life and death according to scripture.

valiant · Jun 12, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

where does it say so? you are big on statements of your own opinion, short on scriptural proof.

No, life is conscious existence. Death is the opposite..

I tend to agree, but where is the definition?

But men were already dead when throne into the lake of fire. They were DEAD, not alive like Satan and his minions..

That is not what Scripture says. It speaks of the dead as knowing nothing,,

That is a parable. And even if you claim it was not it was hades not Gehenna.

But not in Gehenna. Whatever it was it was temporary existence.

And be thrown dead into the lake of fire;

It is indeed, understanding and not reading into.

valiant · Jun 12, 2017

NOWHERE is the final death linked with torment. If you say differently, PROVE it.

Stephen63 · Jun 12, 2017

Daniel 12:1“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.2“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

New American Standard Bible
Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Heb 10:28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Muzungu256 · Jun 12, 2017

ok i did some investigation into the claims that jews believed in annihilation this is not true!!!!!!!!!!! jews in Jesus' time did believe in life after death eternal soul, even the enemies of Jesus pharisees did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LoveGodForever · Jun 12, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Ahwatukee said:

Dear Ahwatukee, nice to meet you and thanks for your thoughts. I use to believe the same as you for most of my life before studying the Word of God. I remember some time ago I was walking through a graveyard and was reading some of the tombstones for whatever reason. On some of these tombstones was written that the person was at rest or sleeping in Jesus. This was very confusing to me as I thought everyone went to heaven when they died and that was it end of story. Anyhow, I started doing some study on the subject that you may find interesting. I am not sharing these things to cause division or contention, but because they are interesting to me personally. Please make up your own mind.

Lets start with the Hebrew and Greek meanings and a few bible veres..

Soul[N]
The Old Testament. The Hebrew word so rendered is nepes [v,p,n]. It appears 755 times in the Old Testament. The King James Version uses 42 different English terms to translate it. The two most common renderings are "soul" (428 times) and "life" (117 times). It is the synchronic use of nepes [v,p,n] that determines its meaning rather than the diachronic. Hebrew is inclined to use one and the same word for a variety of functions that are labeled with distinct words in English.
Nepes [v,p,n] in the Old Testament is never the "immortal soul" but simply the life principle or living being. Such is observable in Genesis 1:20, 21, 24, where the qualified (living) nepes [v,p,n] refers to animals and is rendered "living creatures." The same Hebrew term is then applied to the creation of humankind in Genesis 2:7, where dust is vitalized by the breath of God and becomes a "living being." Thus, human being shares soul with the animals. It is the breath of God that makes the lifeless dust a "living being"person.
Frequently in the Old Testament nepes [v,p,n] designates the individual ( Lev 17:10 ; 23:30 ). In its plural form it indicates a number of individuals such as Abraham's party ( Gen 12:5 ), the remnant left behind in Judah ( Jer 43:6 ), and the offspring of Leah ( Gen 46:15 ).
Nepes [v,p,n] qualified by "dead" means a dead individual, a corpse ( Num 6:6 ). More significant here is that nepes [v,p,n] can mean the corpse of an individual even without the qualification "dead" ( Num 5:2 ; 6:11 ). Here nepes [v,p,n] is detached from the concept of life and refers to the corpse. Hebrew thought could not conceive of a disembodied nepes [v,p,n].
Frequently nepes [v,p,n] takes the place of a personal or reflexive pronoun ( Psalm 54:4 ; Prov 18:7 ). Admittedly this movement from the nominal to the pronominal is without an exact borderline. The Revised Standard Version reflects the above understanding of nepes [v,p,n] by replacing the King James Version "soul" with such translations as "being, " "one, " "self, " "I/me."
Nepes [v,p,n] is also used to designate parts of the body, primarily to stress their characteristics and functions. It can refer to the throat ( Isa 5:14 ; Hab 2:5 ), noting that it can be parched and dry ( Num 11:6 ; Jeremiah 31:12Jeremiah 31:25 ), discerning ( Prov 16:23 ), hungry ( Num 21:5 ), and breathing ( Jer 2:24 ). Nepes [v,p,n] also can mean the neck, and the vital function that takes place there, noting that it can be ensnared ( 1 Sam 28:9 ; Psalm 105:18 ), humbled and endangered ( Prov 18:7 ), and bowed to the ground ( Psalm 44:25 ). Even while focusing on a single part of the body, by synecodoche the whole person is represented.
Nepes [v,p,n] is often used to express physical needs such as hunger ( Deut 12:20 ; 1 Sam 2:16 ) and thirst ( Prov 25:25 ). It can be used of excessive desires (gluttony Prov 23:2 ) and of unfulfilled desires (barrenness 1 Sam 1:15 ). Volitional/spiritual yearning is also assigned to nepes [v,p,n], such as the desire for God ( Psalm 42:1-2 ), justice ( Isa 26:8-9 ), evil ( Prov 21:10 ), and political power ( 2 Sam 3:21 ). Emotions are expressed by nepes [v,p,n] so that it feels hate (so used of Yahweh Isa 1:14 ), grief ( Jer 13:17 ), joy and exultation, disquietude ( Psalm 42:5 ), and unhappiness ( 1 Sam 1:15 ).

Clearly, then, in the Old Testament a mortal is a living soul rather than having a soul. Instead of splitting a person into two or three parts, Hebrew thought sees a unified being, but one that is profoundly complex, a psychophysical being.

The New Testament. The counterpart to nepes [v,p,n] in the New Testament is psyche [yuchv] (nepes [v,p,n] is translated as psyche [yuchv] six hundred times in the Septaugint). Compared to nepes [v,p,n] in the Old Testament, psyche [yuchv] appears relatively infrequently in the New Testament. This may be due to the fact that nepes [v,p,n] is used extensively in poetic literature, which is more prevalent in the Old Testament than the New Testament. The Pauline Epistles concentrate more on soma [sw'ma] (body) and pneuma [pneu'ma] (spirit) than psyche [yuchv].
This word has a range of meanings similar to nepes [v,p,n]. It frequently designates life: one can risk his life ( John 13:37 ; Acts 15:26 ; Rom 16:4 ; Php 2:30 ), give his life ( Matt 20:28 ), lay down his life ( John 10:15John 10:17-18 ), forfeit his life ( Matt 16:26 ), hate his life ( Luke 14:26 ), and have his life demanded of him ( Luke 12:20 ).
Psyche, as its Old Testament counterpart, can indicate the person ( Acts 2:41 ; 27:37 ). It also serves as the reflexive pronoun designating the self ("I'll say to myself" Luke 12:19 ; "as my witness" 2 Cor 1:23 ; "share our lives" 1 Thess 2:8 ).
Psyche can express emotions such as grief ( Matt 26:38, ; Mark 14:34 ), anguish ( John 12:27 ), exultation ( Luke 1:46 ), and pleasure ( Matt 12:18 ).

LoveGodForever · Jun 12, 2017

Here is some interesting historical perspective from Wiki on how the immortality of the soul started in the Church………..

Origins of the immortal soul

The traditional concept of an immaterial and immortal soul distinct from the body was not found in Judaism before the Babylonian Exile,[SUP][1][/SUP] but developed as a result of interaction with Persian and Hellenistic philosophies.[SUP][2][/SUP] Accordingly, the Hebrew word nephesh, although translated as "soul" in some older English Bibles, actually has a meaning closer to "living being". Nephesh was rendered in the Septuagint as ψυχή (psūchê), the Greek word for soul. The New Testament also uses the word ψυχή, but with the Hebrew meaning and not the Greek.

The only Hebrew word traditionally translated "soul" (nephesh) in English language Bibles refers to a living, breathing conscious body, rather than to an immortal soul.[SUP][4][/SUP] In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated "soul" (ψυχή) "psyche," has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew, without reference to an immortal soul. In the Greek Septuagent psyche is used to translate each instance of nephesh.[SUP][5][/SUP]

The concept of an immaterial soul separate from and surviving the body is common today but according to modern scholars, it was not found in ancient Hebrew beliefs.[SUP][1][/SUP] The word nephesh never means an immortal soul[SUP][27][/SUP] or an incorporeal part of the human being[SUP][28][/SUP] that can survive death of the body as the spirit of dead,[SUP][29][/SUP] In addition Ecclesiastes 9:5 states " For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. "(King James)

In Patristic thought, towards the end of the 2nd century, Psūchê had begun to be understood in a more Greek than a Hebrew way, contrasted with the body. By the 3rd century, with the influence of Origen, the traditions of the inherent immortality of the soul and its divine nature were established.[SUP][30][/SUP] Inherent immortality of the soul was accepted among western and eastern theologians throughout the middle ages, and after the Reformation, as evidenced by the Westminster Confession.[SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][[/SUP][SUP]citation needed[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP]
The modern scholarly consensus holds that the canonical teaching of the Old Testament made no reference to an "immortal soul" independent of the body.[SUP][32][/SUP][SUP][33][/SUP][SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP] A wide range of scholarly reference works consistently represent this view.[SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP][SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][39][/SUP][SUP][40][/SUP]
In the last six decades, Eastern Orthodox theologians have also widely accepted conditional immortality, or "immortality by grace" (κατὰ χάριν ἀθανασία, kata charin athanasia), of the soul, returning to the views of the late 2nd century, where immortality was still considered as a gift granted with the value of Jesus' death and resurrection.[SUP][41][/SUP]
Many modern theologians reject the view that the Bible teaches the doctrine of the immortal soul,[SUP][42][/SUP][SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP][SUP][45][/SUP][SUP][46][/SUP][SUP][47][/SUP][SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP][SUP][50][/SUP] and Hebblethwaite observes the doctrine is "not popular amongst Christian theologians or among Christian philosophers today".[SUP][51][/SUP]
Our discussion can be more productive if we ask what the Bible say about the "soul" and "spirit." How does Scripture use these words and how does it explain what these are?

imfinallyfree · Jun 12, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

I'm from the street and so are my neighbors,are you saying that we dumb just because of our living accommodations?

LOL I'm just kidding.

From what I understand it's the soul that goes to Heaven or hell eternally so yeah I guess that the soul is eternal, I'm really thinking about reincarnation now.

And maybe this world is hell and our souls keep coming back until we prove ourselves worthy to move on to Heaven and be with God eternally.

I think that the Cathars came up with this first.

LoveGodForever · Jun 12, 2017

[FONT=&quot]The Bible......

Immortality.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Scripture reveals that the eternal God is immortal (1 Tim. 1:17). In fact, He "alone has immortality" (1 Timothy. 6:16). In contrast to God, then, human beings are mortal. Scripture compares their lives with "a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away" (James 4:14). They are "but flesh, a breath that passes away and does not come again" (Ps. 78-39). Man "'comes forth like a flower and fades away; he flees like a shadow and does not continue'" (Job 14:2).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Conditional Immortality.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] At Creation "God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7). The Creation account reveals that humanity derived life from God (cf. Acts 17:25, 28; Col. 1:16, 17). The corollary of this basic fact is that immortality is not innate to humanity but God's gift. When God created Adam and Eve, He gave them free will—the power of choice. They could obey or disobey, and their continued existence depended upon continual obedience through God's power. So their possession of the gift of immortality was conditional."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"God carefully spelled out the condition upon which they would forfeit this gift—eating of "'the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.'" God warned them, when "'you eat of it you shall surely die'" (Gen. 2:17).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Death:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The Wages of Sin. Contradicting God's warning that disobedience would bring death, Satan asserted, "'You will not surely die'" (Gen. 3:4). But after they transgressed God's command, Adam and Eve discovered that the wages of sin is, indeed, death (Rom. 6:23). Their sin brought this sentence: You shall "'return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return'" (Gen. 3:19). These words do not point to a continuation of life but to its cessation. After giving this sentence, God barred the sinful couple from the tree of life so that they could not "'eat, and live forever'" (Gen. 3:22). His action made it clear that the immortality promised on condition of obedience was lost through sin. They had now become mortal, subject to death. And because Adam could not transmit what he no longer possessed, "death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"It was only God's mercy that kept Adam and Eve from dying immediately. The Son of God had offered to give His life so that they might have another opportunity—a second chance. He was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hope for Humanity. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Although people are born mortal, the Bible encourages them to seek immortality (see, e.g., Rom. 2:7). Jesus Christ is the source of this immortality: "The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 6:23; cf. 1 John 5:11). He "has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light: (2 Tim. 1:10). "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22). Christ Himself said that His voice would open graves and resurrect the dead (John 5:28, 29).[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Christ brought "immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Tim. 1:10). Paul assures us that it is the Holy Scriptures that are able to make us "wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:15). Those who do not accept the gospel will not receive immortality.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Receiving Immortality.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The moment of the bestowal of the gift of immortality is described by Paul: "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory'" (1 Cor. 15:51-54). This makes it very clear that God does not bestow immortality upon the believer at death but at the resurrection, when "the last trumpet" sounds. Then "this mortal" shall "put on immortality." While John points out that we receive the gift of eternal life when we accept Jesus Christ as personal Saviour (1 John 5:11-13), the actual realization of this gift will take place when Christ returns. Only then will we be changed from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Nature of Death[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If death is the cessation of life, what does the Bible say about a person's condition in death?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Death Is a Sleep.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Death is not complete annihilation; it is only a state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the resurrection. The Bible repeatedly calls this intermediate state a sleep. Referring to their deaths, the [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Old Testament[/FONT][FONT=&quot] describes David, Solomon, and the other kings of Israel and Judah as sleeping with their forefathers (1 Kings 2:10; 11:43; 14:20, 31; 15:8; 2 Chron. 21:1; 26:23; etc.). Job called death a sleep (Job 14:10-12), as did David (Ps. 13:3), Jeremiah (Jer. 51:39, 57), and Daniel (Dan. 12:2).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The New Testament[/FONT][FONT=&quot] uses the same imagery. In describing the condition of Jairus' daughter, who was dead, Christ said that she was sleeping (Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39). He referred to the deceased Lazarus in a similar manner (John 11:11-14). Matthew wrote that many "saints who had fallen asleep were raised" after Christ's resurrection (Matt. 27:52), and in recording Stephen's martyrdom, Luke wrote that "he fell asleep" (Acts 7:60). Both Paul and Peter also called death a sleep (1 Cor. 15:51, 52; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; 2 Peter 3:4). The Biblical representation of death as a sleep clearly fits its nature, as the following comparisons demonstrate: 1. Those who sleep are unconscious. "The dead know nothing" (Eccl. 9:5). 2. In sleep conscious thinking ceases. "His breath goeth forth, . . . in that very day his thoughts perish" (Ps. 146:4, KJV). 3. Sleep brings an end to all the days activities. "There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going" (Eccl. 9:10). 4. Sleep disassociates us from those who are awake, and from their activities. "Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun" (verse 6). 5. Normal sleep renders the emotions inactive. "Their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished" (verse 6). 6. In sleep men do not praise God. "The dead do not praise the Lord" (Ps. 115:17). 7. Sleep presupposes an awakening. "'The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth'" (John 5:28, 29).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At humanity's creation, the union of the dust of the ground (earth's elements) and the breath of life produced a living being or soul. Adam did not receive a soul as a separate entity; he became a living soul (Gen. 2:7). At death the inverse takes place: the dust of the ground minus the breath of life yields a dead person or dead soul without any consciousness (Ps. 146:4). The elements that made up the body return to the earth from which they came (Gen. 3:19).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body, and no scripture indicates that at death the soul survives as a conscious entity. Indeed, "'the soul who sins shall die'" (Eze. 18:20).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Abode of the Dead. The Old Testament calls the place where people go at death sheol (Hebrew), and the New Testament hades (Greek). In the Scripture, sheol most often simply means the grave.4 The meaning of hades is similar to that of sheol.5[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All the dead go into this place (Ps. 89:48), both the righteous and the wicked. Jacob said, "'I shall go down into the grave [sheol]'" (Gen. 37:35). When the earth opened "its mouth" to swallow the wicked Korah and his company, they went "'down alive into the pit [sheol]'" (Num. 16:30). Sheol receives the whole person at death. When Christ died, He went into the grave (hades) but at the Resurrection His soul left the grave (hades, Acts 2:27, 31, or sheol, Ps. 16:10). When David thanked God for healing, he testified that his soul was saved "from the grave [sheol]" (Ps. 30:3). The grave is not a place of consciousness.6 Since death is a sleep, the dead will remain in a state of unconsciousness in the grave until the resurrection, when the grave (hades) gives up its dead (Rev. 20:13).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Spirit Returns of God. Though the body returns to dust, the spirit returns to God. Solomon said that at death "the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7). This is true of all, both the righteous and the wicked.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many have thought that this text gives evidence that the essence of the person continues to live after death. But in the Bible neither the Hebrew nor the Greek term for spirit (ruach and pneuma, respectively) refers to an intelligent entity capable of a conscious existence apart from the body. Rather, these terms refer to the "breath"—the spark of life essential to individual existence, the life principle that animates animals and human beings (see chapter 7 of this book).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Solomon wrote, "'Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ["spirit," margin; ruach]; man has no advantage over the animal. . . . All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit [ruach] of man rises upward and if the spirit [ruach] of the animal goes down into the earth?'" (Eccl. 3:19-21, NIV). So, according to Solomon, at death there is no difference between the spirits of man and beast.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Solomon's statement that the spirit (ruach) returns to God who gave it indicates that what returns to God is simply the life principle that He imparted. There is no indication that the spirit, or breath, was a conscious entity separate from the body. This ruach can be equated with the "breath of life" that God breathed into the first human being to animate his lifeless body (cf. Gen. 2:7).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Harmony Through the Scriptures. Many honest Christians who have not studied the complete teaching of the Bible on death have been unaware that death is a sleep until the resurrection. They have assumed that various passages support the idea that the spirit or soul has a conscious existence after death. Careful study reveals that the consistent teaching of the Bible is that death causes the cessation of consciousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Spiritualism originated with Satan's first lie to Eve—"'You will not surely die'" (Gen. 3:4). His words were the first sermon on the immortality of the soul. Today, throughout the world, religions of all sorts unwittingly repeat this error. For many, the divine sentence that "the soul who sins shall die" (Eze. 18:20) has been reversed to say "the soul, even though it sins, shall live eternally."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Resurrection.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The resurrection of the righteous dead to immortality is closely associated with Christ's resurrection because it is the resurrected Christ who eventually will raise up the dead (John 5:28, 29).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Its importance. What would have happened if Christ had not been resurrected? Paul summarizes the consequences: a. There would be no use in preaching the gospel: "If Christ is not risen, then our preaching is vain" (1 Cor. 15:14). b. There would be no forgiveness of sins: "And if Christ is not risen,. . . you are still in your sins!" (verse 17). c. There would be no purpose in believing in Jesus: "And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile" (verse 17). d. There would be no general resurrection from the dead: "Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?" (verse 12). e. There would be no hope beyond the grave: "If Christ is not risen,. . . Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (verses 17, 18).11[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. A bodily resurrection. The Christ who came from the tomb was the same Jesus who lived here in the flesh. Now He had a glorified body, but it was still a real body. It was so real that others did not even notice a difference (Luke 24:13-27; John 20:14-18). Jesus Himself denied that He was some kind of spirit or ghost. Speaking to His disciples He said, "'Behold My hands and My feet. . . Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have'" (Luke 24:39). To prove the physical reality of His resurrection, He also ate in their presence (verse 43).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Its impact. The Resurrection had an electrifying impact on Christ's disciples. It transformed a group of weak and frightened men into valiant apostles ready to do anything for their Lord (Phil. 3:10, 11; Acts 4:33). The mission they undertook as a result of it shook the Roman Empire and turned the world upside down (Acts 17:6).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"It was the certainty of Christ's resurrection that brought point and power to the preaching of the gospel (cf. Phil. 3:10, 11). Peter speaks of the 'resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead' as producing a 'lively hope' in believers (1 Peter 1:3). The apostles considered themselves ordained to be witnesses 'of his resurrection' (Acts 1:22), and based their teaching of the resurrection of Christ on the Messianic predictions of the Old Testament (Acts 2:31). It was their personal knowledge of 'the resurrection of the Lord Jesus' that gave 'great power' to their witness (Acts 4:33). The apostles drew the opposition of the Jewish leaders when they went forth preaching 'through Jesus the resurrection from the dead' (verse 2). . . . When arraigned before[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the Sanhedrin, Paul declared that it was because of his 'hope and resurrection of the dead' that he had been 'called in question' before them (Acts 23:6; cf. 24:21). To the Romans, Paul wrote that Jesus Christ was 'declared to be the Son of God with power. . . by the resurrection from the dead' (Rom. 1:4). In baptism, he explained, the Christian testifies to his faith in the resurrection of Christ (Rom. 6:4, 5)."12[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Two Resurrections.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Christ taught that there are two general resurrections: a "'resurrection of life'" for the just and a "'resurrection of condemnation'" for the unjust (John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15). The 1000 years separates these resurrections (Rev. 20:4, 5).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. The resurrection of life. Those who are raised in the first resurrection are called "blessed and holy" (Rev. 20:6). They will not experience the second death in the lake of fire at the close of the 1000 years (verse 14). This resurrection to life and immortality (John 5:29; 1 Cor. 15:52, 53) takes place at the Second Advent (1 Cor. 15:22, 23; 1 Thess. 4:15-18). Those who experience it cannot die anymore (Luke 20:36). They are united with Christ forever.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What will the resurrected body be like? Like Christ, the resurrected saints will have real bodies. And as Christ arose a glorified being, so will the righteous. Paul said that Christ "will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body" (Phil. 3:21). He calls the unglorified body and the glorified one the "natural body" and the "spiritual body," respectively; the former being mortal and corruptible, the latter immortal and imperishable. The change from mortality to immortality takes place instantaneously at the resurrection (see 1 Cor. 15:42-54).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. The resurrection of condemnation. The unrighteous are raised in the second general resurrection, which takes place at the end of the 1000 years (see chapter 26 of this book). This resurrection proceeds to the final judgment and condemnation (John 5:29). Those whose names are not found in the book of life will be raised at this time and "cast into the lake of fire" and experience the second death (Rev. 20:15, 14).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They could have avoided this tragic end. In unmistakable language Scripture presents God's way to escape: "'Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die?. . . For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!'" (Eze. 18:30-32, NIV).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Christ promises that "'he who overcomes shall not be hurt at all by the second death'" (Rev. 2:11). Those who accept Jesus and the salvation He brings will experience an indescribable joy at His climactic return. In never-fading happiness, they will spend eternity fellowshipping with their Lord and Saviour.[/FONT]

immortality of the soul!

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Miri

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned