In context: Romans 4:4-5
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Neiiher texts state that Christ over looked the sin of man.
Yes, God overlooked their sin because Christ reconciled to God those who believe in the Son,
by his atoning sacrifice for their sin, taking it away on the cross (Heb 10:4).
Their sin is gone.
Their sin being removed by faith in Jesus Christ, God declares them "not guilty" of sin and rightwise/in right standing with him;
i.e., justified, righteous (Ro 5:17; 1:17), saved from his wrath at the final judgment (Ro 5:9; 1Th 5:9).
Yes, God overlooked their sin because Christ reconciled to God those who believe in the Son,
by his atoning sacrifice for their sin, taking it away on the cross (Heb 10:4).
Their sin is gone.
Their sin being removed by faith in Jesus Christ, God declares them "not guilty" of sin and rightwise/in right standing with him;
i.e., justified, righteous (Ro 5:17; 1:17), saved from his wrath at the final judgment (Ro 5:9; 1Th 5:9).
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You could use a good Greek dictionary.
Those in Christ are not guilty of condemnation at the final judgment.
Their condemnation was forever forgiven through grace by faith, and their sin is forgiven in confessing it (1Jn 1:8-10).
So much faulty human logic, and so little Biblical thinking.
Those in Christ are not guilty of condemnation at the final judgment.
Their condemnation was forever forgiven through grace by faith, and their sin is forgiven in confessing it (1Jn 1:8-10).
So much faulty human logic, and so little Biblical thinking.
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Scripture states that He died for sinners. He redeemed sinners, the ungodly, Rom 5:6-10. it also states He was the propitiation for the sins of the world, I John 2:2.
More importantly, He died only once, He arose only once. He did this as the Incarnated God/Man. He performed only one sacrifice so it would be impossible to not have died for all sins atoned for the sins of the world.
It never states He died for particular sins, or particular peoples sins, of kinds of sin. He atoned for sin.
More importantly, He died only once, He arose only once. He did this as the Incarnated God/Man. He performed only one sacrifice so it would be impossible to not have died for all sins atoned for the sins of the world.
It never states He died for particular sins, or particular peoples sins, of kinds of sin. He atoned for sin.
There is no text that states that Christ ONLY reconciled possible future believers only. II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25 as well as Col 1:20 Christ is reconciling the world, all things to God. There are no exceptions in the work of Christ. Faith does not atone for sin. Faith does not even forgive sins. Repentance and confession of sin remits sins which is possible because Christ atoned for sin. Christ becomes the High Priest over His own sacrifice for sin.
On the Cross, more accurately, by His death, He atoned for sin. He did NOT forgive sins on the Cross. The ONLY sins that are ever forgiven are those repented of or confessed. There is a huge difference between the meaning of atonement and the forgiveness of sin.
Your adoption of the Anselmian theory turns scripture on its head. There is no moment that a believer has been permanently declared not guilty from sin, especially by initial faith. There is nothing in scripture that supports such a notion except through the suppositions of the theory.
On the Cross, more accurately, by His death, He atoned for sin. He did NOT forgive sins on the Cross. The ONLY sins that are ever forgiven are those repented of or confessed. There is a huge difference between the meaning of atonement and the forgiveness of sin.
Your adoption of the Anselmian theory turns scripture on its head. There is no moment that a believer has been permanently declared not guilty from sin, especially by initial faith. There is nothing in scripture that supports such a notion except through the suppositions of the theory.
The Greeks did not write the NT.
The NT means what the Greek means, as written by the apostles, et al.
You could use a good Greek dictionary.
In the Greek, "justification" is an acquittal of guilt.
We are "justified," acquitted of guilt, declared "not guilty" by God, through grace by faith in Jesus Christ.
We are saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9, 1Th 5:9) by faith (Eph 2:8-9).
Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77).
Being acquitted of guilt by God because of faith, we are given righteousness from God (Ro 5:17, 1:17)
just as Abraham was because of his faith (Ge 15:6).
Salvation is the new birth into eternal life.
The meaning of these things is clear in the NT.
The NT means what the Greek means, as written by the apostles, et al.
You could use a good Greek dictionary.
In the Greek, "justification" is an acquittal of guilt.
We are "justified," acquitted of guilt, declared "not guilty" by God, through grace by faith in Jesus Christ.
We are saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9, 1Th 5:9) by faith (Eph 2:8-9).
Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77).
Being acquitted of guilt by God because of faith, we are given righteousness from God (Ro 5:17, 1:17)
just as Abraham was because of his faith (Ge 15:6).
Salvation is the new birth into eternal life.
The meaning of these things is clear in the NT.
but the assertion made is that God is doing the work of believing for the believers. God works In you for you to do His will. God is not the one doing His will through you.
If God is actually doing the work that He requires of you, then God becomes the responsible agent and in the judgment God is actually judging Himself rather than you.
If God is actually doing the work that He requires of you, then God becomes the responsible agent and in the judgment God is actually judging Himself rather than you.
Salvation is by faith (Eph 2:8-9), and faith is a gift from God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3),
as is repentance (2Ti 2:25; Ac 11:18; 5:31)
and righteousness (Ro 5:17).
That is the work of salvation which God does inside.
And God himself having worked salvation in you, then
keeps you in that salvation (Php 1:6, 2:13; Ro 8:38; Heb 6:16-20, 10:14; 1Pe 1:3-5)
through the obedience of faith.
as is repentance (2Ti 2:25; Ac 11:18; 5:31)
and righteousness (Ro 5:17).
That is the work of salvation which God does inside.
And God himself having worked salvation in you, then
keeps you in that salvation (Php 1:6, 2:13; Ro 8:38; Heb 6:16-20, 10:14; 1Pe 1:3-5)
through the obedience of faith.
Your Greek dictionaries are based on the Latin translation thus they take a Latin word and give it a Greek meaning rather than stay with the Latin meaning which is based on the Medieval concept of civil justice.
I hold to the Greek scholars of the early Church where not a single Greek ever held your interpretation. The Church was exclusively Greek for 900 years with Latin recovery its use in Rome after the fall of Rome. Jerome made his translation in the 4th century and because Latin had no equivalent word for righteous he inserted the Latin word, justify/justification.
The Satisfaction theory that you are espousing has several unscriptural concepts. One is that God must operate from some external source of justice outside of Himself. Secondly, it makes sins God's problem rather than man's. It also does not change man. It actually changes God.
It does have great psychological pull in that most people have an innate sense of guilt and if one establishes that God paid for this guilt a simple sermon, condemning man because of his guilt, then making the alter call that all one needs to do is accept Christ, you are declared NOT GUILTY and are finitely saved. One can go from being a sinner to perfection ins 60 seconds.
Yet there is nothing in scripture that even comes close to that claim.
One's salvation is all about being transformed, being healed, being made into Christs, not instant perfection whereby man is still the same sinner he was before the alter call and nothing has changed or possibly will ever change because part of the doctrine is that one is saved no matter what one does after that point.
agreed but that is not what we are discussing.
As long as faith is active in the believer he will continue to confess his sins to remain IN Christ. Why would you even use I John 1:6-10 when your theory states that upon initial faith, "justification" a believer, as you stated above, is forever saved. What is the necessity of forgiveness throughout his walk with God. Are you hedging your bet on Justification?
you seem to be living up to your statement.
I hold to the Greek scholars of the early Church where not a single Greek ever held your interpretation. The Church was exclusively Greek for 900 years with Latin recovery its use in Rome after the fall of Rome. Jerome made his translation in the 4th century and because Latin had no equivalent word for righteous he inserted the Latin word, justify/justification.
The Satisfaction theory that you are espousing has several unscriptural concepts. One is that God must operate from some external source of justice outside of Himself. Secondly, it makes sins God's problem rather than man's. It also does not change man. It actually changes God.
It does have great psychological pull in that most people have an innate sense of guilt and if one establishes that God paid for this guilt a simple sermon, condemning man because of his guilt, then making the alter call that all one needs to do is accept Christ, you are declared NOT GUILTY and are finitely saved. One can go from being a sinner to perfection ins 60 seconds.
Yet there is nothing in scripture that even comes close to that claim.
One's salvation is all about being transformed, being healed, being made into Christs, not instant perfection whereby man is still the same sinner he was before the alter call and nothing has changed or possibly will ever change because part of the doctrine is that one is saved no matter what one does after that point.
agreed but that is not what we are discussing.
As long as faith is active in the believer he will continue to confess his sins to remain IN Christ. Why would you even use I John 1:6-10 when your theory states that upon initial faith, "justification" a believer, as you stated above, is forever saved. What is the necessity of forgiveness throughout his walk with God. Are you hedging your bet on Justification?
you seem to be living up to your statement.
Now you have changed your view. God is working in a believer through or because of His faith. Thus man is the operative agent, not God. God ONLY works with a believer as long as one is faithful. Your quote of I Pet 1:3-5 says it precisely.
Nothing happens without faith. When faith falters or a person rejects Christ, returns to his sinful ways, God no longer works in him. God does not operate in man unilaterally, only through faith. Then only as long as that believer continues to cooperate with God.
Speaks directly against your satisfaction theory as well.
Nothing happens without faith. When faith falters or a person rejects Christ, returns to his sinful ways, God no longer works in him. God does not operate in man unilaterally, only through faith. Then only as long as that believer continues to cooperate with God.
Speaks directly against your satisfaction theory as well.
Simply responding to your statement.
Which does not necessarily mean for all sin, as he said that he came to die as a ransom for the sins of many (Mt 20:28), he did not say for the sins of all.
Is any sin not personal?
That is your assumption. The text does not state that.
No, all things were reconciled.
When Adam sinned, not only was harmony between God and man destroyed,
but creation was subjected to disorder as well (Ro 8:19-20).
Christ's atoning death not only restores harmony between God and those who believe in Christ,
but also will restore creation's disorder at the resurrection (Ro 8:21-23).
Which does not necessarily mean for all sin, as he said that he came to die as a ransom for the sins of many (Mt 20:28), he did not say for the sins of all.
Is any sin not personal?
That is your assumption. The text does not state that.
No, all things were reconciled.
When Adam sinned, not only was harmony between God and man destroyed,
but creation was subjected to disorder as well (Ro 8:19-20).
Christ's atoning death not only restores harmony between God and those who believe in Christ,
but also will restore creation's disorder at the resurrection (Ro 8:21-23).
