In heaven we will have a body of flesh and blood. Very interesting because angels can take on human form
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F
I believe you are on to something. I believe if God was not going to forgive them he would not have provided clothing in an act of kindness to cover their shame. I imagine they all of a sudden felt embarrassed and exposed just as we experience today if we were naked in public. There is a feeling of humiliation that happens when naked and exposed. This is why POWs are often stripped naked it’s humiliating to this modern day even. This does not appear as condemnation but that of a merciful and loving God willing to cover their sinful state.
“Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.”
Genesis 3:7 NIV
“He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.”
Genesis 3:10-11, 21 NIV
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F
Exactly and we know that our Gods character is even better than the best of our own and His reaction would be 100% in line with His character description. This is why I’m moved to say God treated Adam and Eve according to his character. That God did not banish them in a angry vengeance but out of kindness actually so mankind would not get ahold of the tree of life and live forever in a fallen state. That would have been horrible. So God moved them out of the garden as an act of great love and compassion.
“And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,”
Exodus 34:6 NIV
“And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,”
Exodus 34:6 NIV
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He was the first (and his wife) to die spiritually. It is believed that Lucifer was the first angel, arch-angel and he hell from sin. Adam being the first man also fell from sin. Lucifer cast out of heaven, Adam cast out of the garden or paradise. Adam is a type of satan.
Very.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
I would agree but I'm not so sure that would be of much more help in a lot of cases. Because the use of language requires the use of imagery to communicate thoughts, it would require the same mind receiving the thought to be sure there are not any distortions in the reception of the projected imagery. It's like our voices are a movie projector and our ears are the movie screen...with our eyes getting in the way... and our noses standing up and going to the bathroom in the middle of the picture... You know? Like when Nicodemus didn't understand what Jesus was saying even though Jesus was speaking his language.
You could really stir the pot with that…
It is believed? You are so careful with your words,
I believe Lucifer was a cherub, a bit different from any angel. But when was Lucifer kicked from heaven?
At some point Lucifer was a good guy… but even when he turned he was not kicked out or at least not kicked out immediately.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Kinda sounds like Adam was a type of Christ?
Whatcha think?
It is believed? You are so careful with your words,
I believe Lucifer was a cherub, a bit different from any angel. But when was Lucifer kicked from heaven?
At some point Lucifer was a good guy… but even when he turned he was not kicked out or at least not kicked out immediately.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Kinda sounds like Adam was a type of Christ?
Whatcha think?
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I think that’s a stretch especially when later that could have been alluded to but never was.How is Adam described in later scripture? I also found the answer to weather sin was counted against Adam in Roman’s 5:13-14. He wasn’t a Satan like person but was a pattern of the one to come meaning Christ.
“This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created. When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.”
Genesis 5:1-5 NIV
“To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.”
Romans 5:13-14 NIV
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
1 Timothy 2:13-14 NIV
“So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.”
1 Corinthians 15:45-47 NIV
“This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created. When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.”
Genesis 5:1-5 NIV
“To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.”
Romans 5:13-14 NIV
“For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”
1 Timothy 2:13-14 NIV
“So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.”
1 Corinthians 15:45-47 NIV
That wouldn’t be fair…
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
The understanding and usage of languages (tongues) is a gift…
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
The understanding and usage of languages (tongues) is a gift…
Looks like he is the opposite of a type of Christ to me. He represents the opposite of Jesus.
Adam is a a human type of Lucifer. Created sinless, then willfully sinned against God, fell from grace and kicked out of "paradise" and dying a spiritual death.
Adam sinned and was greatly punished and cast from the garden. What kind of type of Christ is that?? There is much written to distinguish the very differences between the first Adam who was flesh, and the last Adam who was spiritual. Scripture makes clear how very different the two were. Adam was the first, Christ was the last. They are opposites in what they represent. When we think of Adam it is failure, sin, death, rebellion, denial, nakedness and shame. I do not think of these things when I think of Christ.
F
Is that how Roman’s 5 describes it though? How can Adam be condemned when there was no law? Adam sinned because of his passivity and not covering Eve before she sinned. He was simply there and did not act. He chose Eve over God in that moment. But my understanding of Roman’s 5 is that this is how Death, pain entered the picture. According to Roman’s 5 the sin was not a cause for condemnation yet as there was no law. Therefore we may very well see Adam and Eve in Heaven
No doubt… Adam messed up big time, But I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Adam was kicked from the garden for what he did, Lucifer was sentenced to die and be erased for what he did. Big difference wouldn’t you say.
If Christ was a second type of Adam, by default that would make Adam a first type of Christ.
Isn’t that all men?
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I don’t think of sin when I think of Christ, however… he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
Also, Adam was in the flesh, Christ came in the flesh, Lucifer did not. So we have to be bit carful saying a flesh man was a type for a supernatural cherub.
Adam was kicked from the garden for what he did, Lucifer was sentenced to die and be erased for what he did. Big difference wouldn’t you say.
If Christ was a second type of Adam, by default that would make Adam a first type of Christ.
Isn’t that all men?
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I don’t think of sin when I think of Christ, however… he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
Also, Adam was in the flesh, Christ came in the flesh, Lucifer did not. So we have to be bit carful saying a flesh man was a type for a supernatural cherub.
I agree there was no written law, that didn’t come until Moses. I guess what I’m asking is when does law become law?
God told Moses “thou shalt not murder” did this become law when God spoke it, or when Moses wrote it down?
It would seem without God first saying to us: "Thou shalt not...," there is no wrong nor penalty in doing the particular thing.
In other words, doing something that God doesn't want done, is not a sin until God says "Don't do this, or don’t do that;" Then it becomes sin to do the thing because you have been told and warned not to do it. You are then and only then accountable for that particular deed.
Adam violated a commandment of God, which was:
God told Moses “thou shalt not murder” did this become law when God spoke it, or when Moses wrote it down?
It would seem without God first saying to us: "Thou shalt not...," there is no wrong nor penalty in doing the particular thing.
In other words, doing something that God doesn't want done, is not a sin until God says "Don't do this, or don’t do that;" Then it becomes sin to do the thing because you have been told and warned not to do it. You are then and only then accountable for that particular deed.
Adam violated a commandment of God, which was:
Gen 2:16-17
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (KJV)
Prior to this we have no record of God giving Law to His creation other than telling them to "...Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over..." {Gen 1:28}, which they did.16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (KJV)
still learning….
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I can believe that Enoch 'did not see death because God took him, and he was no more" without assuming that Enoch never died. I only suppose that he did in the most peaceful way, in his sleep, perhaps. Nor am I of the opinion that anyone goes "to heaven" when they die, but rather are 'in waiting' for the "that day when I shall stand...(I can't recall the exact scripture, at the moment, to quote it adequately).
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I didn't think I'd ever find anyone on earth that sees it this way. I might even go further than you in my assessment, even as far to say that when God speaks to, or of, Satan, He speaks to "that spirit" in us (just as He did in speaking to Peter) without forgetting it is "us" altogether (although it is that spirit that is what He intends to destroy altogether).
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