Interesting question: According to scripture alone, what is "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10)?

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Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#21
You are without a single scripture for that assertion. If you had it, you would have cited it here. You did not. I shall address what you have given below momentarily.

Also, from that same (ogdoad) theology you cannot get a one time event into a weekly event, and neither does such appear anywhere in the whole of scripture.

Again, you are without scripture on this point, and if you had it you would have cited it here. You did not. I shall address what you have given below momentarily.

Actually the "first [day] of the week" is not prominent in the New Testament. You are again without scripture support here, and if you had the evidence, you would have cited it here. You did not. There are many other things which are prominent, and of that which you did cite, I shall address momentarily.

Eight is the number of circumcision (Leviticus 12:3; Luke 1:59; Acts 7:8), which follows not a weekly cycle, but is counted from after the birth which could land on any day of the week, or any day in the month, including the 7th day of the week, the sabbath (John 7:22). The scriptures also relate the "eighth" as the day in which the firstfruits were given, such as an animal (Exodus 22:30; Leviticus 9:1, 22:27), and was also the day of "offering" after cleansing (Leviticus 15:14), both of which were not weekly events. It (8) was also associated with the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths (a one time event, yearly; Leviticus 23:36,39), and did not follow a weekly pattern, and could land on any day of the week, in a given month (based upon the New Moon sightings).

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 are cyclical, weekly. 8 is not. So, even accepting that 8 is symbolical (as all numbers are) and refers to the New Heavens and New Earth, it begins on the new day 1, all over again:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.​
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.​

That is what the Feast of Tabernacles points to with it's eighth (one time, not weekly). So even within the New Creation, is the cycle of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (sabbath) - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (sabbath), ad infinitum.

Scripture states that the sabbath was "made" (creation; Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) for "the man" (Adam; Mark 2:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14), both first and second (1 Corinthians 15:45,47; Colossians 1:16). It, after the Egyptian period of slavery, wherein they had 'forgotten' to keep God's laws, was God that also gave them by Reminder, the sabbath of the LORD (Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15). Moses was a sabbath reformer (see Exodus 5-16, etc).

Finally, "Israel" was a name given from the True Israel to a man, who would be the type of the True Israel to come - Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the True Israel (Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21

'Israel' after the flesh, as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

Also, the "church" were those in the wilderness with Moses:

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:​
I can also cite many septuaginta 'ecclesia' passages also if necessary, showing the same things.
What A hair brain way to try to change in their own minds. But only in their mind. It sure want change the only blessed day in the BIBLE.
And there's is not 8 days in creation, This make GODs WORD A LIE,
GOD bless as HE sees fit.
 
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#23
You are mistaken. It was "after" "eight days". No matter how you try to calculate that, inclusively or exclusively, after 8 is 9 or more. There are only 7 days in a week.

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

We know that Jesus met with them on the evening of the 2nd day (first part) [2] which I will here break into [A / B], A being the evening unto morning and B being the morning unto next evening.

[1A / 1B][2A / 2B] From 2 A (evening) we count "after eight days", a "day" being either in part or in whole.

[1A / 1B] (had already passed and it was evening)
[2A / 2B] = 1 (inclusive) (met with the disciples)
[3A / 3B] = 2 (exclusive)
[4A / 4B] = 3
[5A / 5B] = 4
[6A / 6B] = 5
[7A / 7B] = 6
[1A / 1B] = 7
[2A / 2B] = 8
[3A / 3B] = 9th day (after eight days)
[4A / 4B] = 10
th day (after eight days)


Yet, even if we ignored all the context about Jesus meeting with the disciples upon the evening portion of the second day of the week, and tried to count from the [1B] portion (where he had actually walked and talked with the two on the Road to Emmaus), the saying "after eight days" cannot ever calculate to landing upon [1A or 1B].

Please do the math. Please read the context of when Jesus first met with the disciples. Open all four gospels and compare them together.

As much as you spoke many words, you did not actually once address the OP. What you did was flash a bunch of non-sequitur at me hoping some of it would stick. Most of what you wrote was either irrelevant, in error (as documented from actual scripture study) or already agreed upon.

There is not a "jew" on earth that can rightly observe the sabbath of the Lord, as they reject that Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:27-28). Think about it. Most 'jews' today have 0 descent from what existed in th OT/NT times, and are either askenazic, or sephardic.

To equate me with such persons (whom all need Jesus Christ), is a hidden attempt to say I am rejecting Christ. I reject such a hidden assertion. It is most certainly untrue.
There is nothing that says the Sabbath was changed, It just like JESUS said, people keeping their traditions And making GODs word of none effect. People putting their traditions over GODs WORD. GOD bless as HE sees fit.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#24
...

JOHN 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peacebe unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[Note: the Holy Spirit given to the apostles on the first day of the week]
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Addendum to John 20:

There is no consistent meeting only upon the "first day of the week" in all of the New Testament.

Jesus met with the disciples for 40 days.

Jesus met with the disciples 10 days before Pentecost (if we say it is the first [day] of the week, which is properly fine), then this is not a first [day] of the week.

The New Testament states that the disciples (as Jesus and all Jews have before Luke 22:53, etc), met every day:

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,​
Act_2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.​
Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.​
Act_6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.​
Act_20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.​
etc.

Yet, notice that the "daily" (1-7) meeting, never replaces the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD as the Holy Day of God's rest. See Acts 4:24, 14:15-16, 17:30; Luke 23:54-56; Acts 1:12, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Hebrews 4:1-13; Revelation 1:10, 10:6, 14:7, etc.

Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.​
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.​
Act_15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.​
etc.

Finally, "Sunday" is pagan Roman time, from Midnight to Midnight, and not from scriptural Evening to Evening. The times overlap, true, but are not the same in their hours. If persons want to say that the disciples got together on the first day of the week, using most of the NT texts, they will find it was usually at "evening" (night time), not during the primary daylight hours or morning times.

John 20:19 does not help the case of Sunday, one bit. ...

Finally, let me go back to this comment about "prominence" of the "first [day] of the week" in the NT.

We have already seen that is is mentioned specifically:
Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn​
Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn​
Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn​
Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou​
Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​
John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​
John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn​
Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn​
1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn​

And we can include Pentecost also, as an additional mention. Yet, we would have to subtract, John 20:19, as we have seen the context is at the "evening" (at night), which places it upon the actual second day of the week.

Yet, notice in all those text, the sabbath is specifically mentioned (koine Greek). Thus for as many times as "first [day]" is mentioned, the 7th day the sabbath is also mentioned. Yet, there are far more mentions of the sabbath in the NT that that!

The many times that the "Sabbath" of the LORD is given in the New Testament:

Matthew 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1;​
Mark 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1;​
Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56;​
John 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31;​
Acts 1:2, 4:24 (see Exodus 20:11), 13:14,27,42,44, 14:15-16 (see Exodus 20:11), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4;​
Additional references are:

John 12:1 (six days before the Passover, Jesus was at Lazarus' house, on Sabbath)​
Hebrews 3:11, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; [Hebrews 4:9 "rest" Greek: sabbatismos, literal sabbath-keeping]​
Revelation 1:10 [kuriake hemera, "the Lord's Day" [the 7th Day Sabbath, not "the Day of the Lord", this is totally different in the Greek], see Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Deuteronomy 5:12:15, Isaiah 58:13, 66:23, Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:27,28; Luke 6:5 ], Revelation 10:6 [see also Exodus 20:11, 31:17; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalms 146:6; Acts 4:24, 14:15, Revelation 14:7]; Revelation 14:7 [see previous], etc​
The Sabbath far outweighs the 'first [day] of the week' texts. Even in Acts alone, Paul met every sabbath (the seventh day) for a whole year and six months (52 + 26 = 78 continuous meetings therein), before he had to move on.

Even just looking at all the times that the disciples met "daily" would near the "prominence" of the "first [day]" texts (as cited above).
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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#25
Indeed, here are the words of the LORD that directly proceeded out of His mouth:
I think you missed the point, Paul in Acts 9 and 26 claimed he wasn't saved until he heard a voice without seeing a man.
(I just used the spoiler format to minimize the space of my post.)

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man:
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

While Paul wrote faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Paul had read the OT scriptures yet he didn't get saved until he claims he heard the voice of the LORD without seeing a man.

However, citing the passage in Exodus 20 doesn't help your argument.
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Did you not read Exodus 19:25 "So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them."

Or are you Pharaoh? See Ex 7:1

Any reason why you stopped citing scripture in Exodus 20 before the 22nd verse.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

I do desire persons to actually address the OP and subsequent material. The focus is specifically, what is "the Lord's day" of Revelation 1:10, as defined by scripture.
You might hear the word of the LORD in the words of this song.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, ..."
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#26
I Wonder if anyone has actually drawn the correlation that the Jewish sabbath was :
1) cease from work
2) worship God.
Or Visa viz.

Then we see Jesus BREAKING THEIR sabbath.

Then christians are called into......drum roll please;
DAILY Ceasing from WORKS
DAILY worshipping.

IOW that type (jewish sabbath/law) became the antitype.

Do lawkeepers ever acknowledge that dynamic.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
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#27
I think you missed the point,
While you "think" I missed the point (I did not at all), I know you missed my point, especially after the nonsensical answer you gave in response. It's like I gave the exquisite equation of 2+2=4, and you responded with, 'Yeah, but purple cadillacs can't swim in July on Venus.' This seems to be the case in the last days, when facts are presented, and sheer nonsense comes back in return, that cannot even address what was stated originally.

Paul in Acts 9 and 26 claimed he wasn't saved until he heard a voice without seeing a man.
OP relevance? There is none.

(I just used the spoiler format to minimize the space of my post.)
You could have quoted the whole thing, for all the good it did. What a waste of time in this thread, but even so, the foolishness, still bumps the thread to the top, so there's that at least.

Acts 9:3-8; Acts 26:13-15
Good job, you even missed a reference here: Acts 22:6-11. Again, no relevance to the OP or subsequent material documentation, whatsoever. A wild snipe hunt if ever there was one. Look, if you cannot even address the OP and the subsequent evidence therein, why even try to appear wise? It just comes off as asinine. It's like looking at a court jester, who trying to be funny and pull off a trick to impress, accidently slams themself into a wall, knocking themselves unconscious. It wasn't funny. It was utterly embarrassing.

Jesus Christ (the LORD who came down upon Mt. Sinai and spake the Ten Commandments aloud to all (documented shortly), is Paul's Saviour (from sin (1 John 3:4)). Jesus means JEHOVAH is (my) Saviour. Saviour from sin (Matthew 1:21). Paul nowhere taught anything against God's Ten Commandments, but always lifted them up:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

Thus, as the general populace (people) in Exodus saw no "form" of God (except Moses, the Elders and Aaron; Exodus 24:10-11), so too Saul. Thus Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever (Psalms 102:12,25-27; Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 1:10-12, 13:8). Same Jesus, same commandments. See 2 Corinthians 3.

There are several things in 2 Corinthians 3.

[1] Law (doesn't change, stays, "remaineth")

[2] ministration (changes), how the Law is administered

[3] glories (differing glories)

The glory of the Law as seen in Moses face goes away​
the glory of the Law in the life and face of Jesus Christ remaineth and is more glorious.​
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.​
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

[4] Mediator (differing mediators)

Moses ('old covenant'; Exodus 19:8)​
Jesus (eternal covenant; Malachi 2:5; Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, etc)​
[5] location (differing locations)

tables of stone​
tables of the fleshy heart (the brain is two hemispheres, two tables)​

[6] Holy Ghost (doesn't change), and He being the one who wrote the Law (as already cited).

While Paul wrote faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Paul had read the OT scriptures
You missed the entire point about the OP. The OP is addressing something specific, ie, "What is 'the Lord's day' according to scripture?"

Knowing what "the Lord's day" is, even by scripture, doesn't save anyone. Never implied that it did. Satan knows just fine. All the forces of hell know what it is, and it won't help any of them either. It is in knowing "the Lord" of that day. As to the "word of God", it cannot be rightly understood, without the Holy Ghost, which was Saul's issue. The Holy Ghost, is the living Representative of Jesus on earth. It is by Him that the scriptures (both inspired and preserved) are understood.

The entire point of the OP, is to specifically identify what is being referred to, by scripture, as "the Lord's day". This was done. It stands unrefuted.

yet he didn't get saved until he claims he heard the voice of the LORD without seeing a man.
Non-sequitur to the OP.

However, citing the passage in Exodus 20 doesn't help your argument.
I do not think you even understood the OP and subsequent evidences, let alone the (not my) argument.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
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#28
Did you not read Exodus 19:25 "So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them."
Why presume to think what I know, do not know, have read or haven't read? Please allow me to assure you, I have most certainly read and understood by that same Representative which inspired it to be written in the first place.

You are implying that Exodus 19:25, is connected to Exodus 20:1, in that you think (in error) that Moses spake the Ten Commandments as God (as you, out of context, cite Ex. 7:1) to the people, and that God's own voice was not actually heard. The context refutes this humanistic drivel, and which is why there was given such an chapter division where it is.

God (Jesus) actually stood upon Mt. Sinai (Exodus 19:3) and spake the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17) by His own voice, and later called for the elders to eat the covenant meal (just as He did again with the disciples upon Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem in the NT in the New Covenant):

Exo 19:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.​
Exo 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.​
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.​
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.​
Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.​

It was not merely God (the Son, Jesus) in thick darkness, that came down, but ten thousand times ten thousand of holy ('saints') angels in awesome glory that filled that whole mountain and surrounded it so that none could pass:

Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:​
Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.​
Deu_33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.​

Anyone seeking to change God's law, will be put to death (Romans 6:23; Revelation 14:6-12).

Exodus 19:25 refers to the words that God spake to Moses to tell the people in vss 21-24 (the immediate context). Exodus 20:1, is clear that God (not Moses as God to Pharoah (Tutmoses III), long dead in the Red Sea with all his host) is speaking directly to all Israel:
Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,​

All, had to hear the words to which they had previously agreed to obey (even though they hadn't heard them all as such yet).

Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.​
Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.​

Moses, did not later write, that he as "god" spoke for God those "Ten" words. That is a humanistic, even false earthly, mindset.

Neh_9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:​
Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:​
Psa_68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.​

Because they actually heard God's Ten Commandments, they feared and trembled and asked Moses to continue to be their intercessor:

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.​

Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.​
Exo 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.​
Exo 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.​
Exo 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.​
Jdg_5:5 The mountains melted from before the LORD, even that Sinai from before the LORD God of Israel.​
Psa 68:8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel.​
Psa_89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Thus the thick darkness that was atop Mt. Sinai, hovering over it. The "Heaven" spoken about is the first Heaven (sky) above Mt. Sinai.

I am not Pharaoh. It is irrelevant to the OP, and even this present non-sensical response you gave. Pharaoh was dead, and no longer was Moses as "god" to him. It is not contextual to Exodus 19:25, or Exodus 20:1. You simply erred here.

Any reason why you stopped citing scripture in Exodus 20 before the 22nd verse.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
I figured you knew how to read. I was wrong, based upon your response, which means my hope of you reading this and understanding what was written is now well below expectation as before.

You might hear the word of the LORD in the words of this song.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, ..."
Queen? The frontman of that band, Freddie Mercury, was openly homosexual? You think that is from God (even Jesus)?

Try real music from Heaven, from the KING of Kings (instead of that "quee[r]" stuff), and cease from derailing this thread with this garbage, or I will report it.



The OP, the subsequent material evidence, and even what I have presented here, is unrefuted.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#29
No such thing in all of scripture. A complete and total fabrication. Zipporah kept the sabbath, and she wasn't Jewish (at all). The mixed multitude that came out of Egypt kept it, and they weren't Jewish either.

There was a 'pharisaical sabbath keeping', but no such thing as Jewish sabbath.

See Isaiah 56:1-8; John 10:16; Mark 2:27, etc.

Additionally, none of what you stated refutes the OP. It didn't even bother to try to address the OP.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
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#30
Do lawkeepers ever acknowledge that dynamic.
You must be acknowledging that you are one of these then?

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

And if you do not even come up to the rank of "Pharisee" righteousness, how do you think you will fare in the latter part of vs 20?
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
136
43
#31
... the Jewish sabbath ...
Does the Bible use the phrase "Jewish Sabbath" anywhere in either OT [Genesis to Malachi] or NT [Matthew to Revelation]? Nope. To refute that statement, simply produce the text in either Hebrew (OT) or koine Greek (NT).

Since most, incorrectly, think that sabbath keeping began with Moses, rather than with JEHOVAH from the beginning in Genesis, let us ask:

Was Moses an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Moses wasn't a Jew, neither Aaron, nor Miriam, nor Zipporah, nor the 'mixed multitude', etc.

God, in Exodus is directly called the "God of the Hebrews" [Exodus 5:3].

Moses was Hebrew [Exodus 2:7,11], so also the midwives [Exodus 1:15], as well as others [Exodus 1:16,19; Deuteornomy 15:12 KJB].

Abraham was also Hebrew [Genesis 14:13], as was Joseph [Genesis 39:14]. The word Hebrew, comes from "Eber" [Genesis 10:21,24,25, 11:14-17; Numbers 24:24; 1 Chronicles 1:18-19,25], who is of the line of "Shem" [Genesis 10:21], of "Noah", etc., etc. unto "Adam", "the man" for whom the sabbath was "made" for, for in reality it was made for the greater Adam, Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:16), which is why it is called "the Lord's day", the Sabbath of the LORD.

There is not a single scripture that says "Jewish sabbath", or "sabbath of the Jews". It is a myth, a fabrication.

It is always, the Holy "seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God". And moreso, since Jesus is God, and so also man [the second/last Adam], even the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, it is the Sabbath of Jesus, the Jew, for the "son of man [Jesus] is LORD also of the Sabbath" [Mark 2:28], thus all who are His children [Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7], and of the New Creation, will keep His Sabbath even in eternity, even in the New Heavens and New Earth:

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. ..."​

Was Aaron an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Was Miriam an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Were the mixed multitude "Jews" that came up out of Egypt with Moses and Israel [the peoples]?

Was Moses' wife, Zipporah, a "Jew"?

Were the other tribes of Israel, in the days of Moses, other than Judah, "Jews"?

There is a distinction in the words "Hebrew", "Israelite" and "Jew" even in the Bible.

For instance, Abraham would be an Hebrew, but now an Jew, nor an Israelite.

Jacob would be an Hebrew and "Israel" (in type), but not an Jew.

So likewise Joseph.


In the prophecy of Isaiah 56:1-8 [mentioned in the NT, John 10:16, 21:17, etc], were the "sons of the stranger" who were to take hold of the New Covenant, "keepeth the sabbath from polluting it", and have an "everlasting name", physically "Jews"?

In Acts 13:42-44, did even the "Gentiles" come together on the "sabbath" to "hear the word of God"?

In the prophecy of Isaiah 66:22-23, in regards the "new heavens" and the "new earth", wherein "from one sabbath to another", shall therein "all flesh" come to worship before God, is the "all flesh" only physically "Jews"?

In Genesis 2:1-3; appropriated in Exodus 20:8-11, etc, did God [Elohiym], when finished with the work of creation, cease and then "rested" in "the seventh day", which was then "blessed" and "sanctified"?

Was God then [Genesis 2:1-3] in the form of a servant, a man, or a Jew [from the tribe of Judah]?

Genesis 2:1-3 & Exodus 20:11, says that God rested the 7th Day, all the way back in Genesis, and that "the seventh day" is "the sabbath of the LORD [JEHOVAH] thy God [Elohiym]" [Exodus 20:10]:

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

Jesus, in the NT, said that the "sabbath" was [past tense] "made" [at creation, not Mt. Sinai] for the "man" [man-kind, all in Adam, 1st and 2nd], and was therefore not Adam [and thus Eve] the only "man" for whom the "sabbath" was "made", and so all man-kind in him [you, me and all]?

Was the "man" [Adam] for whom the "sabbath" was "made" a physical "Jew"?

Is the word "stranger" [gentile, of another nation than Israel] included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?

Are even the domesticated beasts of service and burden [Ox and Ass], included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?

Are even the "manservant" and "maidservant" [which could be of any nationality] included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?
In the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11, was it not the LORD God [YHVH, JEHOVAH Elohiym] who "rested" in the beginning of Creation, Genesis 2:1-3, and therefore is His [belonging to] Holy day [the seventh day and no other] in which He rested from creating/speaking, and thus blessed and sanctified the seventh day for the man, Mark 2:27-28?

Since the Sabbath of the LORD God is in existence in the perfect creation in Genesis 2:1-3; utilized in Exodus 20:8-11, in the very Ten Commandments, and seen in the perfect life and example of Jesus, whose very daily life demonstrated the taking away of sin, which is transgression of the Holy Law of God [and Lucifer was cast out from there because of sin, and sin shall not exist therein ever again], part of the New Covenant in Isaiah 56, etc, and is again in the perfect New Creation of the New Heavens and New Earth, in Isaiah 66, wherein "all flesh" come to worship before JEHOVAH in every the Blessed Holy 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD, are only physical "Jews" to keep it in redemption, or shall rather all who dress in the provided heavenly garments of salvation/redemption keep it [dress and keep]?

In the NT Gospels, book of Acts and Epistles, did Jesus' true disciples and apostles ever cease from keeping the Sabbath of the LORD Jesus their God, since Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, being His Blessed Holy day, from creation?

In the NT, did Jesus ever rebuke those Jewish leaders who had loaded the sabbath down with traditions from their elders/fathers which nullified the Commandment of God to none effect?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#32
Interesting question: According to scripture alone, what is "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10)?

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

Is the Bible the final authority in all matters of faith and practice for you as it is to me? - see Isaiah 8:20. Then how does the Bible itself, line upon line, define this phrase, and where is John getting this idea from, as inspired of the Holy Ghost? What is the context?

If the Bible is not the final authority in all matters of faith and practice, and you subscribe to the traditions and doctrines of men (Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:7; Colossians 2:2), self-made councils, vain priests and pretended popes who all contradict one another, and pick and choose their religiousity, well, you are already adrift in the miasma of self-made religion, as Paul warned about in Colossians 2:


This thread is not about those vain traditions, pseudo writings, spurious letters, blatant forgeries, and imaginations of the carnal heart, but rather about the sure word of God on the matter, for God cannot lie, while men documentedly have. If you rely upon those things, they will be shown to be what they really are, vanity.

Here is what someone has presented from the scriptures itself:

"The Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

Genesis 2:1-3,4 - 'the seventh day', 'God', 'day', 'the LORD God' [… God [the LORD] … day …]
Exodus 16:23 - "the LORD", "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD' [... the LORD ... [day] ...]
Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day' [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God', 'sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day ...]
Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 35:2,3 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD', 'the sabbath day' [… the LORD … day …]
Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'​
Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – 'the LORD', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God' [… the LORD … day …]
Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'​
Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath [day] from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant) [... the LORD ... sabbath [day] ...]
Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sabbath ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord' [... [the LORD's] ... day]
Isaiah 66:22,23 – 'the LORD', 'one sabbath [day] to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD' [… the LORD … [day] …]
Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]
Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]' [... the ... Lord ... [day]]
Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'
Yes, you are correct. John was given his revelation on the Sabbath. The Lord's day. Jesus honored the Sabbath, Saul/Paul did too. As did all the Apostles, and even after Jesus ascended.
In the Old Testament God says, remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. "remember", the Sabbath day.

Jesus did not do away with that, ever. His Apostles honored it even after Jesus departed.
And we know that especially when John during his confinement on Patmos and receiving the revelations from Christ recognized the Sabbath day as a day too when Christ spoke to him His revelations.
The "first Christians" were the Apostles and all who later converted to the faith in Christ. Therefore, the argument that Sabbath is only for the Jews is false when early Christians honored the Lord's day.
And there are feast days too. Though those will be denied by Sabbath deniers as well. And those same people honor Christmas, never in scripture, and Easter, never in scripture. Odd, isn't it that people will deny what is in scripture, and celebrate what isn't.
A Handy List of Christian Feast Days and Observances
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,264
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#33
Considering how many times this question has been brought up here I don't find it that interesting.
n Well, I find it fresh, new, and wonderful if nothing else for the words "from scripture alone".

I always found it amazing and depressing to read how people turned scripture, like telling of Mary's discovery on Sunday morning that Christ arose into saying that Christ announced He changed the Sabbath Day from the day His Father gave us. And to think the entire world went along with it!!! The Jews didn't change but followed God in that even though they denied Christ. How they must look down their nose at us.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
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www.christiancourier.com
#34
n Well, I find it fresh, new, and wonderful if nothing else for the words "from scripture alone".

I always found it amazing and depressing to read how people turned scripture, like telling of Mary's discovery on Sunday morning that Christ arose into saying that Christ announced He changed the Sabbath Day from the day His Father gave us. And to think the entire world went along with it!!! The Jews didn't change but followed God in that even though they denied Christ. How they must look down their nose at us.
It appears mutual in many Christian communities I've encountered because while they keep the Sabbath, their ancestors are still responsible for not only denying Messiah, but for insuring He was executed.

I love in the OP the observation about "Jewish" Sabbath. Here's another one. The New Testament is Jewish.Regardless of it having been written in Koine (common) Greek. "Salvation is from the Jews."
For over long, and you are right, what is actually in the Bible has come to be changed by those in Denominations, or even founders of what would later be a Denomination attributed to them, so as to seemingly either keep distance from the Hebrew heritage the faith is grounded in. There's a real history when Jesus was a Jew, His Apostles were Jews, and the first converts to the New Covenant were Jews. And yet, today there are Christians that want to distance themselves and our faith as far as they can from anything pertaining to Judaism. As you well know sister.

The Split of Early Christianity and Judaism

There are Christ followers out there that are trying to send the message to bring Jews to Jesus. They're considered extreme by some. This caused quite a lot of fireworks when t was new about six years ago.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,358
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#35
Does the Bible use the phrase "Jewish Sabbath" anywhere in either OT [Genesis to Malachi] or NT [Matthew to Revelation]? Nope. To refute that statement, simply produce the text in either Hebrew (OT) or koine Greek (NT).

Since most, incorrectly, think that sabbath keeping began with Moses, rather than with JEHOVAH from the beginning in Genesis, let us ask:

Was Moses an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Moses wasn't a Jew, neither Aaron, nor Miriam, nor Zipporah, nor the 'mixed multitude', etc.

God, in Exodus is directly called the "God of the Hebrews" [Exodus 5:3].

Moses was Hebrew [Exodus 2:7,11], so also the midwives [Exodus 1:15], as well as others [Exodus 1:16,19; Deuteornomy 15:12 KJB].

Abraham was also Hebrew [Genesis 14:13], as was Joseph [Genesis 39:14]. The word Hebrew, comes from "Eber" [Genesis 10:21,24,25, 11:14-17; Numbers 24:24; 1 Chronicles 1:18-19,25], who is of the line of "Shem" [Genesis 10:21], of "Noah", etc., etc. unto "Adam", "the man" for whom the sabbath was "made" for, for in reality it was made for the greater Adam, Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:16), which is why it is called "the Lord's day", the Sabbath of the LORD.

There is not a single scripture that says "Jewish sabbath", or "sabbath of the Jews". It is a myth, a fabrication.

It is always, the Holy "seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God". And moreso, since Jesus is God, and so also man [the second/last Adam], even the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, it is the Sabbath of Jesus, the Jew, for the "son of man [Jesus] is LORD also of the Sabbath" [Mark 2:28], thus all who are His children [Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20; Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7], and of the New Creation, will keep His Sabbath even in eternity, even in the New Heavens and New Earth:

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. ..."​

Was Aaron an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Was Miriam an Levite/Hebrew rather than a "Jew"?

Were the mixed multitude "Jews" that came up out of Egypt with Moses and Israel [the peoples]?

Was Moses' wife, Zipporah, a "Jew"?

Were the other tribes of Israel, in the days of Moses, other than Judah, "Jews"?

There is a distinction in the words "Hebrew", "Israelite" and "Jew" even in the Bible.

For instance, Abraham would be an Hebrew, but now an Jew, nor an Israelite.

Jacob would be an Hebrew and "Israel" (in type), but not an Jew.

So likewise Joseph.

In the prophecy of Isaiah 56:1-8 [mentioned in the NT, John 10:16, 21:17, etc], were the "sons of the stranger" who were to take hold of the New Covenant, "keepeth the sabbath from polluting it", and have an "everlasting name", physically "Jews"?

In Acts 13:42-44, did even the "Gentiles" come together on the "sabbath" to "hear the word of God"?

In the prophecy of Isaiah 66:22-23, in regards the "new heavens" and the "new earth", wherein "from one sabbath to another", shall therein "all flesh" come to worship before God, is the "all flesh" only physically "Jews"?

In Genesis 2:1-3; appropriated in Exodus 20:8-11, etc, did God [Elohiym], when finished with the work of creation, cease and then "rested" in "the seventh day", which was then "blessed" and "sanctified"?

Was God then [Genesis 2:1-3] in the form of a servant, a man, or a Jew [from the tribe of Judah]?

Genesis 2:1-3 & Exodus 20:11, says that God rested the 7th Day, all the way back in Genesis, and that "the seventh day" is "the sabbath of the LORD [JEHOVAH] thy God [Elohiym]" [Exodus 20:10]:

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.​
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.​
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.​
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

Jesus, in the NT, said that the "sabbath" was [past tense] "made" [at creation, not Mt. Sinai] for the "man" [man-kind, all in Adam, 1st and 2nd], and was therefore not Adam [and thus Eve] the only "man" for whom the "sabbath" was "made", and so all man-kind in him [you, me and all]?

Was the "man" [Adam] for whom the "sabbath" was "made" a physical "Jew"?

Is the word "stranger" [gentile, of another nation than Israel] included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?

Are even the domesticated beasts of service and burden [Ox and Ass], included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?

Are even the "manservant" and "maidservant" [which could be of any nationality] included in the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11?
In the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11, was it not the LORD God [YHVH, JEHOVAH Elohiym] who "rested" in the beginning of Creation, Genesis 2:1-3, and therefore is His [belonging to] Holy day [the seventh day and no other] in which He rested from creating/speaking, and thus blessed and sanctified the seventh day for the man, Mark 2:27-28?

Since the Sabbath of the LORD God is in existence in the perfect creation in Genesis 2:1-3; utilized in Exodus 20:8-11, in the very Ten Commandments, and seen in the perfect life and example of Jesus, whose very daily life demonstrated the taking away of sin, which is transgression of the Holy Law of God [and Lucifer was cast out from there because of sin, and sin shall not exist therein ever again], part of the New Covenant in Isaiah 56, etc, and is again in the perfect New Creation of the New Heavens and New Earth, in Isaiah 66, wherein "all flesh" come to worship before JEHOVAH in every the Blessed Holy 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD, are only physical "Jews" to keep it in redemption, or shall rather all who dress in the provided heavenly garments of salvation/redemption keep it [dress and keep]?

In the NT Gospels, book of Acts and Epistles, did Jesus' true disciples and apostles ever cease from keeping the Sabbath of the LORD Jesus their God, since Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, being His Blessed Holy day, from creation?

In the NT, did Jesus ever rebuke those Jewish leaders who had loaded the sabbath down with traditions from their elders/fathers which nullified the Commandment of God to none effect?
Yes I am aware The rest came from God and did not mysteriously appear one day as some Jewish sabbath.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,139
2,359
113
#36
Interesting question: According to scripture alone, what is "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10)?

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

Is the Bible the final authority in all matters of faith and practice for you as it is to me? - see Isaiah 8:20. Then how does the Bible itself, line upon line, define this phrase, and where is John getting this idea from, as inspired of the Holy Ghost? What is the context?

If the Bible is not the final authority in all matters of faith and practice, and you subscribe to the traditions and doctrines of men (Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:7; Colossians 2:2), self-made councils, vain priests and pretended popes who all contradict one another, and pick and choose their religiousity, well, you are already adrift in the miasma of self-made religion, as Paul warned about in Colossians 2:


This thread is not about those vain traditions, pseudo writings, spurious letters, blatant forgeries, and imaginations of the carnal heart, but rather about the sure word of God on the matter, for God cannot lie, while men documentedly have. If you rely upon those things, they will be shown to be what they really are, vanity.

Here is what someone has presented from the scriptures itself:

"The Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

Genesis 2:1-3,4 - 'the seventh day', 'God', 'day', 'the LORD God' [… God [the LORD] … day …]
Exodus 16:23 - "the LORD", "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD' (conjecture)[... the LORD ... [day] ...]
Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day' (conjecture) [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God', 'sabbath day' (conjecture)[... the LORD ... day ...]
Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day' (conjecture) [... the LORD ... day]
Exodus 35:2,3 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD', 'the sabbath day' (conjecture) [… the LORD … day …]
Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'​
Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – 'the LORD', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God' [… the LORD … day …]
Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'​
Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath [day] from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant) [... the LORD ... sabbath [day] ...]
Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sabbath ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord' [... [the LORD's] ... day]
Isaiah 66:22,23 – 'the LORD', 'one sabbath [day] to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD' [… the LORD … [day] …]
Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]
Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]' [... the ... Lord ... [day]]
Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'
The above is incorrect! The "Lord's Day" is the day that Christ resurrected, which was on the first day of the week. Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day, which is only used once by the way. You are only erroneously applying the two as being the same. Regarding the requirements of the law regarding unclean foods, legal feasts and legal holy days, Paul said:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”

All you've done here is to interpret the Sabbath as being synonymous with the Day of the Lord and that without any scriptural support linking the two.

Those who are in Christ are no longer under the law. For Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely, releasing us from the curse of the law. That said, the Sabbath was given to Israel and is apart of the requirements of the Law. Believers in Christ are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we could do. It is the gift of God so that no one can boast. Have you never read "the sing of death is sin and power of sin is the law?" Jesus rescued us from the curse of the law, which condemned us because humanity is unable to keep it. Why then are there so many teaching that we are still under the law. We died to the law and it therefore no longer has any power over us.

[quoted]"The Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.[/quote]

Please provide the scripture(s) which states that the Sabbath day and the Lord's day as being the same. All that you have listed above is not applicable, because it is by your own interpreting that the Lord's day = Sabbath day. And that without any scripture to back it up.

The Lord's day is the day that Jesus resurrected on, which is on the first day of the week.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,264
1,954
113
#37
The above is incorrect! The "Lord's Day" is the day that Christ resurrected, which was on the first day of the week. Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day, which is only used once by the way. You are only erroneously applying the two as being the same. Regarding the requirements of the law regarding unclean foods, legal feasts and legal holy days, Paul said:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”

All you've done here is to interpret the Sabbath as being synonymous with the Day of the Lord and that without any scriptural support linking the two.

Those who are in Christ are no longer under the law. For Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely, releasing us from the curse of the law. That said, the Sabbath was given to Israel and is apart of the requirements of the Law. Believers in Christ are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we could do. It is the gift of God so that no one can boast. Have you never read "the sing of death is sin and power of sin is the law?" Jesus rescued us from the curse of the law, which condemned us because humanity is unable to keep it. Why then are there so many teaching that we are still under the law. We died to the law and it therefore no longer has any power over us.

[quoted]"The Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.
Please provide the scripture(s) which states that the Sabbath day and the Lord's day as being the same. All that you have listed above is not applicable, because it is by your own interpreting that the Lord's day = Sabbath day. And that without any scripture to back it up.

The Lord's day is the day that Jesus resurrected on, which is on the first day of the week.[/QUOTE] And if I asked you where you find this in scripture, I know what you would say. And just how you manage to tell yourself convincingly, that the discovery of His being gone from His resting place is proof of the time Christ rose is amazing.

I could say I can prove that is not so. The feasts are reliable prophecy of everything that happened at the crucifiction and if you study that feast you see it says Christ rose on the Sabbath. But I understand your thoughts on that.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#38
The above is incorrect!
See I can do that too, except I have evidence, unlike your response which was filled with citations of 'you'. I do not acknowledge you as my final authority in all matters of faith and practice - see. Therefore, the "above" (sic) is quite correct, and demonstrated so by scripture in numerous ways.

The "Lord's Day" is the day that Christ resurrected
You just cited 'you' as authority. I do not accept 'you' as my final authoroty (or any authority for that matter) in all matters of faith and practice. I acknowledge the Bible as my "final authority" as such. You do not produce a single text to back your claim, but what you did, was merely exegesis upon 'you'.

... Christ resurrected, which was on the first day of the week.
Not in question. Non-sequitur and red-herring, a mere distraction to the subject and evidence of the OP and subsequent materials.

Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day,
The OP, and subsequent material which followed, shows (even to this present time, being unrefuted) otherwise. For instance, Isaiah 58:13 is cited:

KJB - "... my [context, the LORD's] holy day ..."​
CJB - “... Adonai’s holy day ..."​
ERV - "... the Lord’s special day ..."​
EXB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
GW - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
ICB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
ISV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
TLB - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
MSG - "... God’s holy day ..."​
NOG - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."​
NABRE - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NCV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NET - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NIRV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NIV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NIVUK - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
NLT - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."​
TPT - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."​

As was pointed out, on several occasions now, the word "holy", or "special" (ERV, great 'liberty' with the Hebrew, it says 'holy'), is merely an adjective, and thus all read as "the Lord's ... day", or "God's ... day", etc. It is the same phrase that John, the Jew, uses in Revelation 1:10, in proper context, when writing about the "word of God" (commandments of God) and the "testimony" (Spirit).

You are thoroughly shown to be in error upon your claim.

which is only used once by the way.
Just showed by Isaiah 58:13 alone, that you are in error, let alone delving into the other texts as cited in and after the OP. What you did was claim 'you' here as authority in the matter, but you are shown to be in error even upon so simple a point.

You are only erroneously applying the two as being the same.
"I" have done no such thing, as that would be to rely upon 'myself' as final authority, rather than as stated in the OP, that the Bible itself is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice, which is why I cited the Bible, rather than myself. You on the otherhand, cited 'you' and not the scripture in evidence.

Regarding the requirements of the law regarding unclean foods, legal feasts and legal holy days, Paul said:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
Already dealt with in the OP, by the video, which you apparently didn't even bother to watch, nor to take advantage of the Powerpoint presentation which thoroughly refutes your claim from the word itself. I here again, place that Powerpoint on Colossians 2.

If you cannot read the powerpoint, being also inept here, as also in the matter of viewing the presentation, I can provide the details in the forum here.

Paul is effectively citing Ezekiel 45:17 and Psalms 98:1-3, and a few other texts. Once that is realized, in their context, and made in connection with Ephesians 2, and Hebrews 9-10, and compared the farce of attempting to have Paul state that the sabbath is abolished, etc will be shown to be utter abandonment of the New Covenant itself - Isaiah 56:1-8.

Colossians 2 doesn't address the OP. It is mere distraction to bring it up, but if you desire, I will finish what you started.

All you've done here is to interpret
Again, no, as "I" do not hold the position that "I" am the final authority in all matters of faith and practice, but "I" do hold that the Bible is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice, which is why I hold to the fact that Genesis 40:8 states that "interpretations belong unto God", and wherein Peter stated, "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation", and many other such texts, like Isaiah 8:20 as already cited on numerous occasions.

I noticed, you have stated no such thing, and evidenced no such thing, but relied entirely upon 'you', and 'your' interpretation and exegesis therein, rather that on God's.

the Sabbath as being synonymous with the Day of the Lord
The OP and subsequent material documented in evidence showed that they are one in the same. Isaiah 58:13 is the classic 'go to', if you do not accept any other as presented, even from Genesis 2 itself, or Exodus 20.

and that without any scriptural support linking the two.
Humble yourself and see the texts I have provided, for they show, quite the opposite.

Those who are in Christ are no longer under the law.
Non-sequitur. It also shows that you do not understand the phrase "under the law", but that is for another time, as it has nothing to do with the OP at the moment.

For Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law
Yep, not in question. Distraction. Not refuting the OP at all.

, satisfying it completely,
Yep. Wash, rinse, repeat as from above.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#39
releasing us from the curse of the law.
Show me in the Ten Commandments, a single "curse". Cite the scripture, instead of citing 'you'. Let's see you even do so simple a thing as requested. You will not, because you cannot, for you refuse to acknowledge the error you have made. The "curse" is not the "law" itself, neither in the Ten Commandments. Being set free from the "curse" of the Law, is not being set free from the Ten Commandments. 'You', have conflated two things which are not the same thing.

That said, the Sabbath was given to Israel
Already have shown that the sabbath was "made" (creation, not Mt. Sinai) for "the man" (Mark 2:27, etc), Adam the first and second (Colossians 1:16). Jesus Christ is the True Israel as already demonstrated (Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1, etc). The Jacob of old was merely the type of the true - Jesus Christ. See also Isaiah 56:1-18; John 10:16. Again, Zipporah wasn't of Israel, as also many others of the mixed multitude. God told them all to "Remember", as they had forgotten in the bondage of Egypt. Do you read the material presented before you share 'you'?

God also gave the other 9 commandments to "Israel", and yet you seem to stress about those? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

and is a part of the requirements of the Law.
The 4th commandment is central to the Ten, which are the expansion of the Greatest two, found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18. They are all the "spiritual" Law of God, being "one word".

Believers in Christ are saved by grace through faith and not by anything we could do. It is the gift of God so that no one can boast.
Good job on paraphrasing Ephesians 2:8-10. You might also look in Titus 3:4-7. Already agreed. The OP is not in any way suggesting salvation by our works of the flesh. It is a mere distraction to bring it up. The point does not refute the OP.

Have you never read "the sting of death is sin and power of sin is the law?"
Yes, I have so read. Do you also presume to guess at what I have not read? What is the arrogance of these persons these days to assume I simply got to a single verse in scripture and leapt over it purposefully. You might desire to check your ego and cease to pretend to be 'Jesus'.
1Co_15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.​

Notice, "sin" is the problem, not God's perfect, holy, just and good law.

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin [1 John 3:4], because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​


Jesus rescued us from the curse of the law
Yes, from the "curse of the law", not the Law itself. Again, you conflate two things which are distinct and separate.

, which condemned us because humanity is unable to keep it.
Only true in so far as that without God's Holy Spirit, even without Christ Jesus, it could not be kept. That is to say, in our feeblenees, before Christ Jesus it could not be, but through Christ Jesus, and the strength provided at Calvary (Romans 5:6; Revelation 12:10), as scripture (my final authority), I can do "all" things (Philippians 4:13), including keep God's commandments, for the New Covenant that writes God's Law, His Ten Commandments upon my heart (texts already cited).

Why then are there so many teaching that we are still under the law.
As I stated, you have a mistaken notion as to what that phrase "under the law" even means, and you have presented a strawman of my actual position, and did not even once attempt to actually refute, from scripture, the OP and subsequent material documented in evidence.

We died to the law and it therefore no longer has any power over us.
It's taking about for justification:

Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,​
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.​
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.​
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.​
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.​

I do not teach justification by law. I teach this:

Isa_45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

See this presentation on Galatians:


Please provide the scripture(s) which states that the Sabbath day and the Lord's day as being the same.
Did that in the OP, and subsequent materials documented in evidence. See Isaiah 58;13 to start with, if nothing else.

All that you have listed above is not applicable
Unfortunately 'you' are not my final authority (and as stated, any kind of authority), and therefore, it is quite applicable. 'You' do not get to decide what is and what is not 'applicable'.

because it is by your own interpreting
Isaiah 8:20. Already refuted this. "I" do not interpret. That would be "private interpretation". It is God that Interprets as already cited.

that the Lord's day = Sabbath day.
Shown in OP, etc.

And that without any scripture to back it up.
That you cited the entire OP, and then make this claim is astounding. Feel free to read again the rest of the thread if the OP does not suit you.

The Lord's day is the day that Jesus resurrected on,
You are back to citing 'you' again.

which is on the first day of the week.
That Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week is already agreed upon - next.

The OP stands unrefuted.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#40
Yes, you are correct. John was given his revelation on the Sabbath. The Lord's day. Jesus honored the Sabbath, Saul/Paul did too. As did all the Apostles, and even after Jesus ascended.
In the Old Testament God says, remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. "remember", the Sabbath day.

Jesus did not do away with that, ever. His Apostles honored it even after Jesus departed.
And we know that especially when John during his confinement on Patmos and receiving the revelations from Christ recognized the Sabbath day as a day too when Christ spoke to him His revelations.
The "first Christians" were the Apostles and all who later converted to the faith in Christ. Therefore, the argument that Sabbath is only for the Jews is false when early Christians honored the Lord's day.
And there are feast days too. Though those will be denied by Sabbath deniers as well. And those same people honor Christmas, never in scripture, and Easter, never in scripture. Odd, isn't it that people will deny what is in scripture, and celebrate what isn't.
A Handy List of Christian Feast Days and Observances
It is the goal of the false gospel to worship shadows used in ceremonies as a picture to the world. The ceremonies were not designed for what the eyes see unto themselves but looked ahead for us . They received the end of their new born again faith from the beginning just as us. They looked ahead to what the shadows represented. We look back to the same shadows as shadow observers. Not shadow worshipers .

Powerful verse below that dissipates shadows. Making sign and wonders seekers without effect.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:9-11

The Lords day is a reference to the "last day". Six times in the book of John it is used to represent the day believers receive the promises of a new body and death as to the letter of the law. It is finished convicting guilty hearts of mankind .

The Lord's day the same day promised in Philippians 1:6 in so much that if he began the good work will finish until the last day .The same last day or day of the Lord spoken of by Job .

From my experience much damage has been done to the word sabbath (rest) by men giving the word a time element like "week" changing and destroying the meaning. A word (week) it was not used in the Greek until later. .having none at the time it was written

Destroying the gospel which is mixing faith the unseen with the literal that seen in respect to the word today. Today is the last day under the sun for many believers. Just as it will be literally for the whole world .

The word Sabbath does not equal Sunday or Saturday .It does equal today as long as we are under the Sun. Individually or corporately on the last day under the sun

The Bible is the perfect law of God .God's word. . as prophecy defines the terms and phrases used .Sabbath the last day is never used to represent a time element other than as a shadow, of the gospel

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day (last day) on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day (last day) from all his works.And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Sabbath no time restraints.


Sabbath = Last day . Last day = today

Last day = last breath