Interesting question: According to scripture alone, what is "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10)?

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Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#61
Seems like the 7 letters to the 7 churches would have a rebuke or exhortation about Saturday sabbath keeping.
Or some disciplinary action from paul for not observing Saturday as a holy day.
^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^
 

Locoponydirtman

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#62
Ok law keeper go to the temple, and make your sacrifices if you can. As the temple is destroyed and the alter is gone, and the arc of the covenant is in the throne room of the father.
 

Absolutely

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#63
""Hebrews 3, then continues to build upon those two things further, and connects to the past truth, with its “wherefore”, and delves straight into the peoples Israel [sons of natural Jacob] of the past, with Moses as a type of Christ; thus showing that Christ is the greater Moses, and in vs 7, another link “wherefore”, pointing to the failure in faith, and the rebellion of action as the result, drawing a parallel between they of old, and the we of then in Paul's day and so also now.

Hebrews 4, then continues the building exhortation, by its “Let us therefore”, and moves right into an an expanded comparison of the past with the present situation, in matters of living faith, granting the victory over sin. Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, draws from several passages of scripture, and draws a conclusion, with another link in vs 6, a “therefore” and further throughout with additional conclusions and places to step higher, in vs 14, “Seeing then”, and vs 16, “Let us therefore”. Living faith may therefore climb up Jacob's ladder [Christ Jesus] and reach the Throne of Grace, even “boldly”, to find pardon and cleansing for sin.""


Amazing how you can read heb 3 and 4 and miss what was said.
The believers rest.

The ot (Gods covenant people)..(I don't dare say Jews or Hebrews for fodder of some rabbit trail on your part) ,could not enter due to unbelief.
Enter Jesus.
Through belief in him we enter the rest.
Unbelief blocks the entering in.
You missed.
You walked up to the barn with your shotgun
Got 2 ft away.
Fired both barrels
......AND MISSED
 

Absolutely

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#64
Ok law keeper go to the temple, and make your sacrifices if you can. As the temple is destroyed and the alter is gone, and the arc of the covenant is in the throne room of the father.
Amen
Placing men under ordinances is ot methodology.
That is what is meant "the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life"

Freedom
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#65
""Hebrews 3, then continues to build upon those two things further, and connects to the past truth, with its “wherefore”, and delves straight into the peoples Israel [sons of natural Jacob] of the past, with Moses as a type of Christ; thus showing that Christ is the greater Moses, and in vs 7, another link “wherefore”, pointing to the failure in faith, and the rebellion of action as the result, drawing a parallel between they of old, and the we of then in Paul's day and so also now.

Hebrews 4, then continues the building exhortation, by its “Let us therefore”, and moves right into an an expanded comparison of the past with the present situation, in matters of living faith, granting the victory over sin. Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, draws from several passages of scripture, and draws a conclusion, with another link in vs 6, a “therefore” and further throughout with additional conclusions and places to step higher, in vs 14, “Seeing then”, and vs 16, “Let us therefore”. Living faith may therefore climb up Jacob's ladder [Christ Jesus] and reach the Throne of Grace, even “boldly”, to find pardon and cleansing for sin.""


Amazing how you can read heb 3 and 4 and miss what was said.
The believers rest.

The ot (Gods covenant people)..(I don't dare say Jews or Hebrews for fodder of some rabbit trail on your part) ,could not enter due to unbelief.
Enter Jesus.
Through belief in him we enter the rest.
Unbelief blocks the entering in.
You missed.
You walked up to the barn with your shotgun
Got 2 ft away.
Fired both barrels
......AND MISSED
Iow
The rest ...sabbath day rest...Pointed to the ultimate rest...JESUS.
JESUS IS the rest.
JESUS BECAME our sabbath.

The "Lord's Day " is a person.
His Name is Jesus.

Another news flash:
Salvation has become a person....JESUS.
JESUS IS SALVATION.
JESUS IS MY REST.
Rest your body every 7th day?
Sure.

Observe the Lord one day a week and call it "his day"?
Nope
That is law.
That is saying "I don't see the other days as his day"
"I got 6 for me...one for him"

Jesus REQUIRES a surrender.
All your days and money belong to him.
Your very life belongs to him.

The op not only misses doctrinally...the premise and spirit of it is ot ordinances.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#66
Please provide the scripture(s) which states that the Sabbath day and the Lord's day as being the same. All that you have listed above is not applicable, because it is by your own interpreting that the Lord's day = Sabbath day. And that without any scripture to back it up.

The Lord's day is the day that Jesus resurrected on, which is on the first day of the week.
And if I asked you where you find this in scripture, I know what you would say. And just how you manage to tell yourself convincingly, that the discovery of His being gone from His resting place is proof of the time Christ rose is amazing.

I could say I can prove that is not so. The feasts are reliable prophecy of everything that happened at the crucifiction and if you study that feast you see it says Christ rose on the Sabbath. But I understand your thoughts on that.
What kind of logic is that? No! If there is no scripture that says that the Lord's day and the Sabbath mean the same thing, then it is an assumption, implied. If both the phrases "the Lord's day" and "the Sabbath were used interchangeably for example, then you would have a link. As it is, we do not. Below is the scripture:

"On the Lord’s day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

This phrase is only used only once here in Rev.1:10 and it is referring to the day on which the Lord resurrected, which was on the first day of the week. As I said, nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day. It is by pure assumption and without basis.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#67
What kind of logic is that? No! If there is no scripture that says that the Lord's day and the Sabbath mean the same thing, then it is an assumption, implied. If both the phrases "the Lord's day" and "the Sabbath were used interchangeably for example, then you would have a link. As it is, we do not. Below is the scripture:

"On the Lord’s day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

This phrase is only used only once here in Rev.1:10 and it is referring to the day on which the Lord resurrected, which was on the first day of the week. As I said, nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day. It is by pure assumption and without basis.
Amen
Any time I see a nuclear microscope placed on a word that supposedly hinges or is foundation for a doctrine,it usually means it actually says the opposite.
The watchtowers have perfected that dynamic.
Words get a redefining which flows so beautifully IN THEIR OWN CIRCLES.
Enter the bible scholar.
The newly introduced verses are like water on their bonfire.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,139
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#68
Show me in the Ten Commandments, a single "curse".
I don't have to cite anything from the law stating that it was a curse, for the word of God states this itself as can be seen below. As I quoted before, "the sing of death is sin. and the power of sin is the law." Jesus rescued believers from the law. The Law itself is holy and righteous, but humans are not and we could keep it. Jesus became a man and kinning himself with humanity and kept the law on our behalf, satisfying it completely. We died with Christ and are therefore, the fulfillment of the law is applied to all believers. We are not under the law, but are led by the Spirit.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

"Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child (Jesus) who was promised. "

"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

My teachings on any of these Biblical subjects is not from the cuff of my sleeve, but is from over 45 years of study. If you don't believe the above, then you are just ignoring scripture.
 

Locoponydirtman

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Oct 9, 2018
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#69
I don't have to cite anything from the law stating that it was a curse, for the word of God states this itself as can be seen below. As I quoted before, "the sing of death is sin. and the power of sin is the law." Jesus rescued believers from the law. The Law itself is holy and righteous, but humans are not and we could keep it. Jesus became a man and kinning himself with humanity and kept the law on our behalf, satisfying it completely. We died with Christ and are therefore, the fulfillment of the law is applied to all believers. We are not under the law, but are led by the Spirit.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

"Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child (Jesus) who was promised. "

"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

My teachings on any of these Biblical subjects is not from the cuff of my sleeve, but is from over 45 years of study. If you don't believe the above, then you are just ignoring scripture.
Agreed
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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#70
What kind of logic is that? No! If there is no scripture that says that the Lord's day and the Sabbath mean the same thing, then it is an assumption, implied. If both the phrases "the Lord's day" and "the Sabbath were used interchangeably for example, then you would have a link. As it is, we do not. Below is the scripture:

"On the Lord’s day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, saying, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

This phrase is only used only once here in Rev.1:10 and it is referring to the day on which the Lord resurrected, which was on the first day of the week. As I said, nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath ever referred to as the Lord’s day. It is by pure assumption and without basis.
Yep its not like John had some new catchy way to say "sabbath"
If he meant sabbath day he could have easily said it.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#71
Lol.
Yes we can all see sabbath and rest have no correlation whatsoever.
Not what I stated. I stated that the "to day" and the "seventh day" are two things, and to not conflate them. Why mock at that which I have not stated? Of course the sabbath is rest. The sabbath commandment encompasses all 7 days in the week, thus each day in the year.

Your constant "...has nothing to do with the op.."is yet another indicator of your misplaced perception.
The OP is specific in its intent. It is specifically focused upon Revelation 1:10. You cited Hebrews 4 because?
 

WithinReason

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Feb 21, 2020
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#72
Yes the Lord's day and the last day are synonymous as the day of rest.
Feel free to consider this image:


AWHN - Bible - 7000 Years.jpg

The phrase "the Lord's day" is not the "final day" (aka Day of the Lord), as that was already addressed, way back here, near the beginning of the OP:

"... The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfilment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23.​
This is not as the phrase "day of the Lord" (ἡμέρα κυρίου) which is written in the genitive masculine case (see 2 Peter 3:10, etc, and also so called septuaginta uses). ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ords-day-revelation-1-10.190829/#post-4189306

The two phrases are completely differing and refer to two differing things:

[1] τη κυριακη ημερα - the 7th day of the week​
[2] ἡμέρα κυρίου - the final 'day' (1000 years with the Lord) of the Cosmic week​

This difference is seen throughout all the OT and NT passages, in Hebrew and koine Greek.

Revelation 1:10, in its own immediate context, does not refer to John being in the final 'day', as the vision John was given encompasses much more than the final 'day'.

Age of the Earth

The Redemption of the Creation – 7000 Years And The Everlasting Gospel (Powerpoint)

7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel – Bible & Historical Quotations (PDF)

"... The phrase “the day of the Lord” [Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10], is a direct reference to the “thousand years” [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7, see also Isaiah 24:22, “many days”], which is the final “day”, the 7th day – the great Sabbath, of the great week “with the Lord” [2 Peter 3:8]. ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...on-20-and-the-1000-years.190804/#post-4188761

Feel free to consider the remaining at that link, also feel free to peruse the following:

Armageddon & The Seven Last Plagues (Powerpoint)

The Millennium & The Final Revelation (Powerpoint)
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#73
Just insert "sabbath" (which isn't there)
I can and mentally do such word 'substitution' as that is allowed in God's method of interpretation. For instance:

Rev_1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.​
Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.​
Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.​
Rev_19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.​

What is that symbol, and meaning? Simple substitution:
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.​
Psa_149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;​
Isa_49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;​
Psa_55:21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.​
Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:​

The Bible teaches word substitution, even by example and precept, line upon line (Isaiah 28:10,13).

Therefore, knowing that Isaiah 58:13, etal. teaches that the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord my God is "the Lord's ... day", I may rightly place the words there, and the "scripture ...not be broken" (John 10:35).

and stop worrying if it makes a sliver of difference.
Oh, I am not worried, and that you presume to know why I have placed the thread and OP as I have speaks volumes. I do not move in fear, but in faith and love. Feel free to consider this sermon:


The difference is clear, between right and wrong, truth and error, obedience and sin.

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?​

By grace, John obeyed the word; I also in the same obey the word. What do you do?

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) are God's own character in written transcript form, see Exodus 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7.

No game changer or error either way.
Oh, the difference is as great as light versus darkness, good versus evil, righteousness vs sin.

I agree with the standard of judgment in scripture:

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.​

You see, "the Lord's day" deals with the "Lord" (Jesus) of that day. Turn from it, and thus turn from Him, by saying not thy will (Psalms 40:8) be done O Lord, but my will be done.

For there is that on this earth, even at present which thinks to change "times" and "laws" of the Most High God, and it doesn't have to be a system, but also applies individually:

Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.​

When God says, "this ...", they say, "that ..." and so cannot "Amen" God as His image and likeness, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh, and are the issues of life, and they show by their denial of what is written, that the seed of another is planted there, rather than the seed planted by God.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,​
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. [Exodus 20:11]
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.​
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,​
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:​
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

Notice, the same John:

1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.​
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Did you notice the difference in "images"? Do you reflect the lovely Jesus:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.​
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.​
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,​
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,​
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.​
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.​
Or do you reflect the "man of sin" [1 John 3:4], who thinks to change God's times and laws. Only you, by studying God's word and comparing yourself to its right and true standard, will you be able to answer that question correctly.

You judge by 'your' standards, rather than God's standard in His word. It was already cited that "every word" is important, and that no one ought "add" or "subtract" from any of it, and that man must speak according to "the Law" and "to the testimony", otherwise there is "no light" in them. What you judge as 'flyspecks', God has magnified above all his name:

Psa_138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.​
Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.​
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#74
So you start by referencing the Book of the Revelation of John
Yes. I did.

, then call the Epistles, "pseudo writings, spurious letters, and blatant forgeries, "
I did no such thing. Please re-read what I have stated. I stated that Irenaeus, Pseudo Barnabas, Justin Martyr, and the so-called 'ecf' (easily confused fellows) are such in specific example as stated here - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ords-day-revelation-1-10.190829/#post-4189312

I stated that the true words of God are found in the real Patriarchs of scripture, and stated, "... like John, James and Peter and Paul, and even further back unto Abraham, Moses, David, and those like them, and have those "fathers" tell us, as mouthpieces for God. ..."

You have a confusion about what I have stated, even plainly.

do you throw out the other three gospel accounts too?
No, of course I do not throw out a single book of scripture, of which there are 66, as defined by scripture (Genesis to Revelation).

How do you determine what is scripture and what is not?
That is a long study, not really germane to this present OP, but if you would like I will share in this thread about it as needful. It is how I know that Revelation is scripture, while Pseudo-Barnabas, and co-called 'Enoch' and Shepherd of Hermes and Maccabees (apocrypha), etc are not scripture.

Is it just the writing of John, as far as the new testament goes?
Please re-read what I have stated - carefully in the link provided.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,114
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#76
Yep its not like John had some new catchy way to say "sabbath". If he meant sabbath day he could have easily said it.
Exactly. The sabbath is always the sabbath in the NT. But in order to create a false doctrine we have this twist on the sabbath in this thread. I'm not sure if this other idea was also included from SDA teachings -- those who worship on Sunday have taken the Mark of the Beast. Which is preposterous.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#77
""Neither term, "Sunday" or "Saturday" are scriptural, that is to say, Bible, terms""
Uh "term" is not in the bible
So your point is void.
Not at all.

The Scriptures are translated into various languages in the world.

For instance:

"term"​
"term (n.)​
c. 1200, terme "limit in time, set or appointed period," from Old French terme "limit of time or place, date, appointed time, duration" (11c.), from Latin terminus "end, boundary line," in Medieval Latin "expression, definition," related to termen "boundary, end" (see terminus). Old English had termen "term, end," from Latin. Sense of "period of time during which something happens" first recorded c. 1300, especially of a school or law court session (mid-15c.).​
The meaning "word or phrase used in a limited or precise sense" is first recorded late 14c., from Medieval Latin use of terminus to render Greek horos "boundary," employed in mathematics and logic. Hence in terms of "in the language or phraseology peculiar to." Meaning "completion of the period of pregnancy" is from 1844. Term-paper in U.S. educational sense is recorded from 1931." - https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=term

Thus if I go to the Latin (such as Jerome's Vulgate (though corrupted - http://www.latinvulgate.com/ ), or to the French (Ostervald) translation, I see the word "term" (with various proper endings, ini, ino, inus, inum, etc) used in scripture:

Gen_10:19 Latin factique sunt termini Chanaan venientibus a Sidone Geraram usque Gazam donec ingrediaris Sodomam et Gomorram et Adama et Seboim usque Lesa​
Gen_49:26 French Les bénédictions de ton père surpassent les bénédictions de ceux qui m'ont engendré. Jusqu'au terme des collines éternelles, elles seront sur la tête de Joseph, sur le front du prince de ses frères.​

Those are just two languages that the word "term" is in. It is even in English translations (though corrupted) such as the WEB - https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=term&version=WEB&searchtype=all

However, there may be such corrupted translations which use a word for sunday or saturday in them, but this is because they did not properly and correctly translate the scripture from Hebrew or koine Greek, for as stated those timeframes (midnight to midnight; Pagan Roman Time) are not the same timeframes as given in scripture (evening unto evening, evening folllowed by morning, etc). So even should there be found translations which use those words, they would be in great error, and unfaithful translations of what God actually inspired. It is why I stated that neither "term" are "scriptural".

The argument that the word "term" is not in the Bible (when I showed that it most certainly is) is to be compared to "Saturday" and "Sunday" not being "scriptural terms" is arguing Apples to Oranges. It is not the same at all. However, your argument "terminated" in error even so.

See how easy that is.
Yes, I see it was extremely easy to disprove your claim.

There is a deflecting in your methodology.
No, it is a clarifying in the methodology, to distance from distraction (your responses) to the real issue (OP and subsequent material presented in evidence thereto). It is eliminating that which is superfluous and non-related, such as the argument you just made about "term".

You constantly bring flyspecks forward as part of your doctrine.
This is 'your' subjective, unfounded upon God's word, opinion and may be safely laid aside as holding no weight with the OP, or myself, or in evidence against the unrefuted facts thereof. When will you get to the facts of the OP, and produce the scriptures required?

Then tell others "your sentences do not cancel my ever so astute eloquent factoids"
You place into quotes things I have never said. I know another who does that also, and they are identified in scripture.

Mental discerning of the word of God is what was leading the religious in Jesus advent.
It is by the Spirit of the Lord, who brings to mind the scriptures that men are led to Jesus' advent therein.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:​

Oh dear is "advent " in the bible?
Again, yes, see:

"advent (n.)​
"important arrival," 1742, an extended sense of Advent "season preceding Christmas" (in reference to the "coming" of Christ), late Old English, from Latin adventus "a coming, approach, arrival," in Church Latin "the coming of the Savior," from past participle stem of advenire "arrive at, come to," from ad "to" (see ad-) + venire "to come," from a suffixed form of PIE root *gwa- "to go, come." Related: Adventual." - https://www.etymonline.com/word/advent#etymonline_v_5157

It is in several Bibles, here is Latin:

Num_22:37 Latin dixitque ad Balaam misi nuntios ut vocarent te cur non statim venisti ad me an quia mercedem adventui tuo reddere nequeo​
2Th_2:1 Latin rogamus autem vos fratres per adventum Domini nostri Iesu Christi et nostrae congregationis in ipsum​

French and Spanish and Italian:

1Co 15:23 French Mais chacun en son propre rang; Christ est les prémices, ensuite ceux qui sont de Christ, à son avènement.​
1Co 15:23 Spanish Mas cada uno en su orden: Cristo las primicias; luego los que son de Cristo, en su venida.​
1Co 15:23 Italian Ma ciascuno nel suo proprio ordine: Cristo è le primizie; poi, nel suo avvenimento, saranno vivificati coloro che son di Cristo.​

You are in error - again, even when using an Apples to Oranges fallacious argument.

Oh,double bogey man,I think "bible" is not in the bible.
You really ought put away what 'you' "think", and take up the word of God for your thinking.

Isa_55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.​
Isa_55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

Again:

"Bible (n.)​
"the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments," early 14c., from Anglo-Latin biblia, Old French bible (13c.) "the Bible," also any large book generally, from Medieval and Late Latin biblia "the Bible" (neuter plural interpreted as feminine singular), from phrase biblia sacra "holy books," a translation of Greek ta biblia to hagia "the holy books." The Latin word is from the Greek one, biblion "paper, scroll," also the ordinary word for "a book as a division of a larger work;" see biblio-."" - https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=bible

Thus various forms are used in scripture, such as "bibliotheca" (Ezra 5:17, 6:1 Latin).

Romans translated the word for book (Byblos) into the Latin Biblia, and it is this word which the English word "Bible" was derived.

You ought cease from myths

Oh wow my post is double cancelled ...I used "bible" twice
Oh, you didn't need to use the word "Bible" to "double cancel..." your posts, you only needed 'you' and 'your' erroneous Apples to Oranges arguments to do that.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
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HBG. Pa. USA
#78
I don't have to cite anything from the law stating that it was a curse, for the word of God states this itself as can be seen below. As I quoted before, "the sing of death is sin. and the power of sin is the law." Jesus rescued believers from the law. The Law itself is holy and righteous, but humans are not and we could keep it. Jesus became a man and kinning himself with humanity and kept the law on our behalf, satisfying it completely. We died with Christ and are therefore, the fulfillment of the law is applied to all believers. We are not under the law, but are led by the Spirit.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

"Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child (Jesus) who was promised. "

"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

My teachings on any of these Biblical subjects is not from the cuff of my sleeve, but is from over 45 years of study. If you don't believe the above, then you are just ignoring scripture.
The verse says. "the curse of the Law" not that the law was a curse.
The Law was not a curse. It carried a curse if one did not keep it. Big difference
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,139
2,359
113
#79
Yep its not like John had some new catchy way to say "sabbath"
If he meant sabbath day he could have easily said it.
Very good point, Absolutely. John was a Jew, so it wasn't like he didn't know what the Sabbath was. Like you said, if he meant the Sabbath, then he would have called it that. The "Lord's Day" is no more the Sabbath anymore than the "the Day of the Lord" is.

Now, to be fair, holding to the belief that the Sabbath and the Lord's Day as being the same, is not something that would affect ones salvation. It's just a matter of the truth and accuracy of God's word regarding any Biblical subject, which in these last days has been under attack from all sides. Thank the Lord for the truth of His word and the confirmation of the Spirit.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
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#80
Exactly. The sabbath is always the sabbath in the NT.
Actually, No. The "sabbath" is called "sabbath" in the NT, that is for certain:
Matthew 12:1,2,5,8,10,11,12, 24:20, 28:1;​
Mark 1:21, 2:23,24,27,28, 3:2,4, 6:2, 7:6-9, 15:42, 16:1;​
Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14,15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56;​
John 5:9,10,16,18, 7:22,23, 9:14,16, 12:1 (calculated), 19:31;​
Acts 1:2, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4;​

Yet, it is also called God's "rest":

Hebrews 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11​

It is also called "the seventh day":

Hebrews 4:4​

It is called "the seventh":

Hebrews 4:4​

It is also referred to as being "according to the commandment":

Luke 23:56​

It is also referred to as the culmination of the 7 day week:
Matthew 28:1(a) - (Koine Greek) οψε δε σαββατων (Transliterated) oye de sabbatwn​
Matthew 28:1(b) - (Koine Greek) εις μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) eiV mian sabbatwn​
Mark 16:2 - (Koine Greek) και λιαν πρωι της μιας σαββατων (Transliterated) kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn​
Mark 16:9 - (Koine Greek) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου (Transliterated) anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou​
Luke 24:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​
John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn​
John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn​
Acts 20:7 - (Koine Greek) εν δε τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) en de th mia twn sabbatwn​
1 Corinthians 16:2 - (Koine Greek) κατα μιαν σαββατων (Transliterated) kata mian sabbatwn​

It is also referred to as "the day (that is approaching in the week (also the great Cosmic final day, dual use)"

Hebrews 10:25​

All of which terms are also used in the OT, as the OT and NT are in perfect harmony.

The Phrase "the Lord's day" is found in use in the OT, as shown from Isaiah 58:13, etc. John is not making up any novel (new) idea, but the Holy Ghost is insipiring and citing from the OT scriptures, as is done all over Revelation 1. Called an "epanados" or Chiasm:

(1) Isaiah 55:4 --> Revelation 1:5 (Witness)
(2) Daniel 7:13 --> Revelation 1:7 (Coming with Clouds of angels)
(3) Zechariah 12:10-14 --> Revelation 1:7 (Pierced and Wail)
(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:8 (I AM)
(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:11 (I AM)
(3) Zechariah 4:2 --> Revelation 1:12 (Candlestick, Sanctuary, HolyPlace)
(2) Daniel 7:9,13,22 --> Revelation 1:13-15 (Priest)
(1) Isaiah 49:2 --> Revelation 1:16 (Sharp Sword)

Revelation 1:10 is simply citing Isaiah 58:13 in the midst of the parallelism from the OT.

A deeper study on the structure of Daniel and Revelation may be seen here - Link to Daniel & Revelation Structure

Here is a small picture of it:

Full Image here Link

AWHN - Bible - Psalms 77 Vs 13 Thy Way O God Is In The Sanctuary.jpg

I have even shown that Jesus is referring to this same phrase in the Gospels:

Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]
Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]' [... the ... Lord ... [day]]

But in order to create a false doctrine we have this twist on the sabbath in this thread.
This is simply a baseless accusation. It is founded upon your 'opinion' alone, and undocumented in any evidence. I have shown from the OP, onward, in subsequent materials, that the doctrine is from Genesis to Revelation.

If I all I am to encounter in every reply is opinion, accusation and personal words not of scripture, then the OP stands unrefuted as I stated.

I'm not sure if this other idea was also included from SDA teachings -- those who worship on Sunday have taken the Mark of the Beast. Which is preposterous.
You are mistaken about such teaching. The Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that those who worship on Sunday "have taken" the Mark of the Beast. No one has the Mark of the Beast as of yet. There are several citations in Seventh-day Adventist material which clearly show this, not the least of which is the primary book, the Great Controversy.