Interesting verse Daniel 2:43 They are not of this earth?

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#61
The words 'mixed with the seed of men' describes the iron and clay. The word mixed means an...

View attachment 249179
The Arabs are among the most intermarried people in the world. Some translations use the word 'intermarried' instead of "mixed with the seed of men."

The description of the iron and clay depicts the Arabs far more than the Europeans, Cina, Russia, or United States.

The word MIXED OR MINGLED used to describe the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It means mixed and denotes an Arabian or Arabia. (Gesenius) This word is not associate with ROME, ITALY.

Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar much more about the iron and clay than any of the other kingdoms because it depicts the end-time kingdom that the Lord returns to destroy. The word MIXED actually describes the people, the origin, and the geographical area from which the end-time anti-Christ would arise. The description of the iron and clay describes the Arab/Muslim world far better than Rome or the EU.

"And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken."

"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

"And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise."

Daniel says the kingdom would, 'subdue all things, be divided and not cleave to one another, partly strong and partly broken, and mixed (arab/intermarried) with the seed of men, break in pieces and bruise'. View attachment 249179
I don't know why the Middle Easterner seems to always be ruled out as a possibility, when it seems to me that that possibility should be the first to look at.

For future reference: ^This is part of sober's "signature line" and it is an available option where we can write whatever or even put a pic there and it appears at the bottom of all of that person's entries. It's not meant to be read as part of the reply.
 
Dec 7, 2022
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#62
I don't know why the Middle Easterner seems to always be ruled out as a possibility, when it seems to me that that possibility should be the first to look at.


For future reference: ^This is part of sober's "signature line" and it is an available option where we can write whatever or even put a pic there and it appears at the bottom of all of that person's entries. It's not meant to be read as part of the reply.
I realized that afterwards. So, I opted out of seeing signatures.

The Arabs and Iranians are Israel's staunch enemy. Every nation mentioned in end-time prophecy is Arab, Iranian, and Muslim today. NOT ONCE is Rome mentioned in scripture as becoming a beast or as the enemy of Israel and the world!

One thing I should mention. I use to believe the anti-Christ was a global dictator. Now, I believe the anti-Christ rules a united Middle East of 10 nations. It could be that the man of sin unites the Arab world. Maybe a Sunni and Shia alliance. Maybe two - Daniel's King of the North - Turkey and/or Iran could be one beast??? And King of the South or an alliance of nations surrounding the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa.

The anti-Christ comes against Israel. He's not a global dictator. That guy and his cronies are mentioned elsewhere.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#63
Rome isn't the fourth kingdom. If you believe Rome is the 4th kingdom - legs of iron - then you have to explain why Daniel used the word MIXED/ARAB to describe the iron and clay! Iron and clay are an offshoot of the legs of iron! (Greece) Mixed or mingled indicates an Arab or Arabia. NOT Rome or an Italian!

The sequence of kingdoms I believe in Daniel 2, predates the one that claims Rome is the legs of iron. It goes back to the time of Josephus which is...

Babylon = Head of Gold
Mede's = Arms of silver
Persian' s = Thighs of brass
Greeks = Legs of iron.
Maybe my understanding is more intuitive,
The someone's prosthesis is made of iron, half iron, half clay, and that country is also half strong and half weak.
But there are so many things in the human world that have to do with iron, if I had to say so, I think any country is half strong and half weak.

And the fourth kingdom, the kingdom of God, shall break in pieces the figure of the 666 man.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#64
Maybe my understanding is more intuitive,
The someone's prosthesis is made of iron, half iron, half clay, and that country is also half strong and half weak.
But there are so many things in the human world that have to do with iron, if I had to say so, I think any country is half strong and half weak.

And the fourth kingdom, the kingdom of God, shall break in pieces the figure of the 666 man.

Gold represents that the empire of that era used gold as a symbol of the country, such as gold coins and gold jewelry. So did silver, followed by copper, followed by iron, and now the paper money is painted with human and mixed with iron wire.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,183
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#65
I realized that afterwards. So, I opted out of seeing signatures.

The Arabs and Iranians are Israel's staunch enemy. Every nation mentioned in end-time prophecy is Arab, Iranian, and Muslim today. NOT ONCE is Rome mentioned in scripture as becoming a beast or as the enemy of Israel and the world!

One thing I should mention. I use to believe the anti-Christ was a global dictator. Now, I believe the anti-Christ rules a united Middle East of 10 nations. It could be that the man of sin unites the Arab world. Maybe a Sunni and Shia alliance. Maybe two - Daniel's King of the North - Turkey and/or Iran could be one beast??? And King of the South or an alliance of nations surrounding the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa.

The anti-Christ comes against Israel. He's not a global dictator. That guy and his cronies are mentioned elsewhere.
Given, it is written that there are many anti-Christs. However, I've been listening to a series of discussions about Islam on the way to work and although I haven't caught the name of the speaker since I always start out after the introduction, it's kept me intrigued enough to continue to tune in to it. The most recent segment, the speaker posed the question about 'radical' Muslims asking, "why are they called "radical'?!....," and he followed up with the rhetorical question, 'Does this make me a 'radical' Christian, if I follow the teachings of Jesus and the Bible?"
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#66
Given, it is written that there are many anti-Christs. However, I've been listening to a series of discussions about Islam on the way to work and although I haven't caught the name of the speaker since I always start out after the introduction, it's kept me intrigued enough to continue to tune in to it. The most recent segment, the speaker posed the question about 'radical' Muslims asking, "why are they called "radical'?!....," and he followed up with the rhetorical question, 'Does this make me a 'radical' Christian, if I follow the teachings of the Bible?"
What would make him a radical is if he actually let his light so shine among men that they saw his good works and glorified the Father in heaven.
We need more radicals.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#67
What would make him a radical is if he actually let his light so shine among men that they saw his good works and glorified the Father in heaven.
We need more radicals.
That should be common of Christians, yes, that is a good point.
His point was that what has become termed as "radical" Muslims are those that follow the teaching of Mohammed and the Koran, and he cites the relevant verses to the topic. He referenced GWB as 'coining' (my description) that designation, so the program must've been an archived broadcast contemporary to his presidency. The speaker sounds like an (Arabian?) Christian.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#69
That should be common of Christians, yes, that is a good point.
His point was that what has become termed as "radical" Muslims are those that follow the teaching of Mohammed and the Koran, and he cites the relevant verses to the topic. He referenced GWB as 'coining' (my description) that designation, so the program must've been an archived broadcast contemporary to his presidency. The speaker sounds like an (Arabian?) Christian.
It's a good point you bring out. Radical when applied to the Muslim is pejorative because he is made out to be a zealot when he actually puts his faith as he understands it into practice.
From what you have described, the speaker believes a Christian who actually practiced the tenets of faith is equally radical to a Muslim.
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
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#70
“And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭13:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you reckon this is literal ? That would make them probably five hundred feet tall or so
Are you sure it would make them 500 ft. tall? I always heard that they were apparently extremely tall but not to that extent...

I thought they were at the most 45-50'.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,183
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#71
It's a good point you bring out. Radical when applied to the Muslim is pejorative because he is made out to be a zealot when he actually puts his faith as he understands it into practice.
From what you have described, the speaker believes a Christian who actually practiced the tenets of faith is equally radical to a Muslim.
His point was the danger of 'playing down' the threat to Christians, otherwise known as 'infidels.'
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#73
His point was the danger of 'playing down' the threat to Christians, otherwise known as 'infidels.'
Ahhh...which is another great point.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#77
Are you sure it would make them 500 ft. tall? I always heard that they were apparently extremely tall but not to that extent...

I thought they were at the most 45-50'.
I was saying it isn't literal Enochs book measures them at 450 you can find it online probably
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#78
I imagine that you're saying Daniel 7 is a repeat of Daniel 2?
I imagine that you're saying Daniel 7 is a repeat of Daniel 2?
Sort of not a repeat but I'm saying they are part of one message and each adds new details and meant to be layered upon the other like a transparency on top of a solid image , each one adds details to the understanding revelation is the same way at times
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#79
Sort of not a repeat but I'm saying they are part of one message and each adds new details and meant to be layered upon the other like a transparency on top of a solid image , each one adds details to the understanding revelation is the same way at times
Like this

Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, his legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Daniel interprets the dream


"This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
Daniel 2:31‭-‬33‭, ‬36‭-‬38 KJV

And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Daniel 2:39‭-‬41 KJV

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Daniel 7:3‭-‬7 KJV

I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 7:16‭-‬17‭, ‬19‭, ‬23‭-‬27 KJV

Then 8 identifies some kings for us Babylon's king remember already had dominion the golden head

And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation,( the four heads) but not in his power.

And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Daniel 8:19‭-‬25 KJV

Each is meant to be layered upon the other that's just an example when you get to johns beast it's on the sixth had already it's seven hundred year later Babylon had rose and fallen , media Persia rose up fell , Greece rose up and split into four kingdoms ending at the Roman empire.


John is seeing it seven hundred years later 5 of the kings have already risen and fallen

And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Revelation 17:7‭, ‬10‭-‬14 KJV
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,991
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#80
Rome isn't the fourth kingdom. If you believe Rome is the 4th kingdom - legs of iron - then you have to explain why Daniel used the word MIXED/ARAB to describe the iron and clay! Iron and clay are an offshoot of the legs of iron! (Greece) Mixed or mingled indicates an Arab or Arabia. NOT Rome or an Italian!

The sequence of kingdoms I believe in Daniel 2, predates the one that claims Rome is the legs of iron. It goes back to the time of Josephus which is...

Babylon = Head of Gold
Mede's = Arms of silver
Persian' s = Thighs of brass
Greeks = Legs of iron.
You have this all wrong

Babylon was the head of gold
Media/persian empire was next
then Greece
Then rome

No arab empire has had power to rule the known worldup until the time of Christ, which is when the legs of iron were in power