Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
- Thread starter Phoneman-777
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What past conversation? We have barely talked to each other. You made a snap judgment about my character and refuse to consider why I want to see the Devil in hell. You claim that I have ignored evidence. You have not proposed any Bible verses. What evidence am I ignoring? Show me...what post number on this forum have you spoken to me with Biblical evidence.
I'll wait...
I'll wait...
Sigh...there is so much evidence against this.
The 7 Feasts were types which are fulfilled in Christ's antitypical work of redemption and pertain to both His first and Second Coming:
1st Coming
Passover = Lamb that was sacrificed.
Unleavened Bread = flesh did not see corruption
First Fruits = Our First Fruit of the Resurrection
Pentecost = Holy Spirit poured out on His "sanctuary" below/Inauguration of High Priest Ministry in Sanctuary above
2nd Coming
Trumpets = announce the imminent "Day of Atonement"
Day of Atonement = Jesus exits the Holy Place and enters the Most Holy Place and begins cleansing the Sanctuary 2,300 Days (years) after 457 B.C. in 1844.
Tabernacles = Second Coming when we gather with Him forevermore
So, the Lord's Goat/Scapegoat fulfillment is still future, as the "Day of Atonement" type is not yet fully met with antitype.
The 7 Feasts were types which are fulfilled in Christ's antitypical work of redemption and pertain to both His first and Second Coming:
1st Coming
Passover = Lamb that was sacrificed.
Unleavened Bread = flesh did not see corruption
First Fruits = Our First Fruit of the Resurrection
Pentecost = Holy Spirit poured out on His "sanctuary" below/Inauguration of High Priest Ministry in Sanctuary above
2nd Coming
Trumpets = announce the imminent "Day of Atonement"
- Day of Atonement is the "cleansing of the Sanctuary" to take place 2,300 days (years) from 457 B.C.
- This "trumpet" announcement came as the inexplicable "Lisbon Earthquake of 1755, Dark Day/Blood Moon of 1780, and Falling Stars of 1833.
- Resulted in a sudden global "Great Religious Awakening" as Christians began studying end times prophecy
- This study led to the "Advent Movement" which defied churches everywhere teaching Jesus would not return for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time
- Mainline churches finally climbed aboard the "heretical" Advent bandwagon decades later prompted by the preaching of it by Billy Graham, yet to this day refuse to credit them with discovering the message
Day of Atonement = Jesus exits the Holy Place and enters the Most Holy Place and begins cleansing the Sanctuary 2,300 Days (years) after 457 B.C. in 1844.
Tabernacles = Second Coming when we gather with Him forevermore
So, the Lord's Goat/Scapegoat fulfillment is still future, as the "Day of Atonement" type is not yet fully met with antitype.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
2 things:
1. if a literal interpretation of a passage causes monumental Scripture contradictions, the passage ain't literal - as in the case of the Rich Man and Lazarus
2. Is the death sentence handed down before the accused is found guilty, or is he first judged?
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the Godly out of temptation, and to RESERVE the unjust UNTO THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, TO BE punished." - 2 Peter 2:9 KJV
1. if a literal interpretation of a passage causes monumental Scripture contradictions, the passage ain't literal - as in the case of the Rich Man and Lazarus
2. Is the death sentence handed down before the accused is found guilty, or is he first judged?
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the Godly out of temptation, and to RESERVE the unjust UNTO THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, TO BE punished." - 2 Peter 2:9 KJV
Brother, it's of no use to debate anyone on an issue if they only have half the story. If I was as ignorant of the Protestant perspective as you are, I'd defend the NIV as you do...please, my brother, expend only a mere fraction of time and effort you've put into your current body of knowledge examining the other side of the argument.
"The first one to speak appears right until another comes to cross examine him".
"The first one to speak appears right until another comes to cross examine him".
-
1
- Show all
Yes, y'know what "shed blood", "gave up the ghost", "suffered for our sins", "gave His only begotten Son"... and such all add up to? He DIED for us.
If the wages of sin is eternal torment, then eternal torment is what has to be paid, period.
If the wages of sin is death, then the blood He shed when He died is payment if full.
If the wages of sin is eternal torment, then eternal torment is what has to be paid, period.
If the wages of sin is death, then the blood He shed when He died is payment if full.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You have lots of patience, Some people are not willing to hear. The whole bible makes sense when death is death (not half dead or physical death but complete death) And when life is given by God. We do not have life in ourselves and God does not keep us alive to suffer. Stay true to the Bible 
-
1
- Show all
Oh I have a PowerPoint & a Picture for that:
https://archive.org/details/the-feasts-of-the-lord
https://archive.org/download/awhn-bible-7-feasts-of-the-lord/AWHN - Bible - 7 Feasts Of The LORD.jpg
https://archive.org/details/the-feasts-of-the-lord
https://archive.org/download/awhn-bible-7-feasts-of-the-lord/AWHN - Bible - 7 Feasts Of The LORD.jpg
-
1
- Show all
Oh wait, no, Jesus is the true Israel; I have a picture for that:
https://archive.org/details/the-real-israel-jesus_202111
https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png
Here's another interesting one:
https://archive.org/download/who-wa...o Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png
https://archive.org/details/the-real-israel-jesus_202111
https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png
Here's another interesting one:
https://archive.org/download/who-wa...o Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png
You have lots of patience, Some people are not willing to hear. The whole bible makes sense when death is death (not half dead or physical death but complete death) And when life is given by God. We do not have life in ourselves and God does not keep us alive to suffer. Stay true to the Bible
But, as a lifeguard patiently attempts to rescue a drowning victim despite his panicked uncooperativeness, so we who've been previously rescued are.
Christ took the kingdom of God from the unbelieving Jews and gave it to the Gentile nation which is now bringing forth the fruits thereof - y'know, because they failed to meet the condition of retaining the kingdom, which was to get fully surrendered to God and the message of His coming Lamb, right?
The promises of Zechariah 14 which the Jews failed to secure through unbelief now belong to the church.
The promises of Zechariah 14 which the Jews failed to secure through unbelief now belong to the church.
Agreed, but the kingdom of heaven is reserved for the nation of Israel. The kingdom of heaven is the earthly, visible, kingdom promised to the Jews. It will come to pass. Replacement theology states that God is finished with his program with the Jews and does not take the Bible literally, but spiritualizes most scriptures concerning Israel.
-
1
- Show all
Notice the emphasis on how it is a RIGHTEOUS THING for them to suffer everlasting destruction. Also notice that the flaming fire of VENGEANCE is what is RIGHTEOUS. It is indeed a righteous thing that brings us great HOPE that the wicked, especially those that have persecuted the prophets and the saints would suffer eternal vengeance of God's flame of destruction EVERLASTING. Shout Hallelujah! Those who know God rejoice that this will happen. It is part of our HOPE!
KJV
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
NIV
5All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
11With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by faith. 12We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. c
And also, we are told to keep this in mind always as we go about the daily tasks of obeying our calling to do good deeds and preach the Gospel to the lost. It is to always be on our minds and one the things that motivates and shapes our Gospel message which always included a warning about the everlasting judgment that the wicked have to look forward to. Anyone who does not include it in their message is not preaching the Gospel in the same way as the many examples we see in the book of Acts where this warning was part of the message of Faith in Jesus Christ.
I know you are not listening but I post for the edification of those who are engaged in Gospel preaching. Make sure that you message about Jesus loving you and wanting to deliver you from your sins and give you eternal life should always include that..."He is coming back In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."
It is God's plan that we be motivated to repentance by BOTH a revelation of His Mercy and also a revelation of the judgment that awaits those that do not repent. The only way we can appreciate the mercy is to understand that a Storm of judgment is coming and it is TERRIBLE beyond anything one can imagine. Not even Jesus words about unquenchable flames and never ending torment can describe the full weight of that judgment. MERCY INDEED that we should be saved from such a horrible eternal fate.
KJV
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
NIV
5All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
11With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by faith. 12We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. c
And also, we are told to keep this in mind always as we go about the daily tasks of obeying our calling to do good deeds and preach the Gospel to the lost. It is to always be on our minds and one the things that motivates and shapes our Gospel message which always included a warning about the everlasting judgment that the wicked have to look forward to. Anyone who does not include it in their message is not preaching the Gospel in the same way as the many examples we see in the book of Acts where this warning was part of the message of Faith in Jesus Christ.
I know you are not listening but I post for the edification of those who are engaged in Gospel preaching. Make sure that you message about Jesus loving you and wanting to deliver you from your sins and give you eternal life should always include that..."He is coming back In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."
It is God's plan that we be motivated to repentance by BOTH a revelation of His Mercy and also a revelation of the judgment that awaits those that do not repent. The only way we can appreciate the mercy is to understand that a Storm of judgment is coming and it is TERRIBLE beyond anything one can imagine. Not even Jesus words about unquenchable flames and never ending torment can describe the full weight of that judgment. MERCY INDEED that we should be saved from such a horrible eternal fate.