Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
- Thread starter Phoneman-777
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I hope you don't, but MANY will burn in Hell "forever and ever". Jesus said so, including those who deny the "everlasting fire".
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth ((AGAPAO)) Me
(John 14:21)
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth ((AGAPAO)) Him that begat loveth ((AGAPAO)) Him also that is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love ((AGAPAO)) the children of God, when we love ((AGAPAO)) God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love ((AGAPE)) of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.
(1 John 5:1-3)
Owe no man any thing, but to love ((AGAPAO)) one another: for he that loveth ((AGAPAO)) another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love ((AGAPAO)) thy neighbour as thyself. Love ((AGAPE)) worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love ((AGAPE)) is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:8-10)
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love ((AGAPAO)) thy neighbour as thyself.
(Galatians 5:14))
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love ((AGAPAO)) one another; as I have loved ((AGAPAO)) you, that ye also love ((AGAPAO)) one another.
(John 13:34)
I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love ((AGAPAO)) one another. And this is love ((AGAPE)), that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
(2 John 1:4-6)
love is the noun form of the verb to love.
AGAPE is equivalent to AGAPAO, all over the entire NT
NKJV uses oracle here; that's more appropriate. It's certainly not a parable in the NT sense, which is a plausible if not certainly factual narrative whose purpose in being told is to relate higher truth by analogy. Let's read the whole thing instead of just quoting one word devoid of context:
Numbers 23:7-10
And he took up his oracle and said: "Balak the king of Moab has brought me from Aram, From the mountains of the east. ' Come, curse Jacob for me, And come, denounce Israel!' "How shall I curse whom God has not cursed? And how shall I denounce [whom] the LORD has not denounced? For from the top of the rocks I see him, And from the hills I behold him; There! A people dwelling alone, Not reckoning itself among the nations. "Who can count the dust of Jacob, Or number one-fourth of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, And let my end be like his!"
How anyone can think this is a parable in the sense of those Christ gave is beyond reason.
But an important point about Luke 16 is that telephone-person says the clear worldview Christ gives is literally 'doctrines of demons' - his words, not mine ((see earlier in the thread))
IOW he calls Christ a liar and a demonic teacher. He thinks that he excuses his blasphemous accusations against the Lord God by saying 'it's a parable so that's OK that it's demonic lies'
I would think that any Christian who finds himself in agreement with teleperson on this subject would have serious doubts about whether their own views are correct.
Jesus Christ is THE TRUTH - He is never lying, even when He gives parables.
So calling Luke 16 in no way whatsoever makes what Christ describes innaccurate.
Numbers 23:7-10
And he took up his oracle and said: "Balak the king of Moab has brought me from Aram, From the mountains of the east. ' Come, curse Jacob for me, And come, denounce Israel!' "How shall I curse whom God has not cursed? And how shall I denounce [whom] the LORD has not denounced? For from the top of the rocks I see him, And from the hills I behold him; There! A people dwelling alone, Not reckoning itself among the nations. "Who can count the dust of Jacob, Or number one-fourth of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, And let my end be like his!"
How anyone can think this is a parable in the sense of those Christ gave is beyond reason.
But an important point about Luke 16 is that telephone-person says the clear worldview Christ gives is literally 'doctrines of demons' - his words, not mine ((see earlier in the thread))
IOW he calls Christ a liar and a demonic teacher. He thinks that he excuses his blasphemous accusations against the Lord God by saying 'it's a parable so that's OK that it's demonic lies'
I would think that any Christian who finds himself in agreement with teleperson on this subject would have serious doubts about whether their own views are correct.
Jesus Christ is THE TRUTH - He is never lying, even when He gives parables.
So calling Luke 16 in no way whatsoever makes what Christ describes innaccurate.
I am saying you are blaspheming. Let me guide you through the logic.
Blasphemy 1 - Speaking against the Most High
You are saying God is a Torturer. In the absence of any logical reason for a hell, you are making the most vile assertions to the Character of God. Do you have any logical reason a hell should exist? Then why are ascribing the Most High such a vile character.
Blasphemy 2 - Speaking against the Scriptures (unforgivable sin)
You did not conform Rev 20:14 to your single hell assertion. Does that mean that you are denying the veracity of this single verse? If so, consider Rev 22:18-19,
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
If not, your hell declaration has been tested and found to be wanting. Since you harp your vitriol day in and day out, consider Matt 7:15-23 "....Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ "
When you worship this fantastical hell that obeys no logical rules, consider Isaiah 8:19-22 "... And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness." Your are shirking the light of joy for the darkness of hell. Stop teaching.
Blasphemy 3 - Calling Jesus a liar
Once again Rev 20:14, conform it or you are saying the Book of Revelation is of no effect. Consider Rev 1:1-2
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
If your reverence of the 2 witnesses so limited by your hellmongering, should you not give up hell? Glory to Jesus, the Father of Eternity not some pagan notion that fulfills the darkest desires of the human mind.
Galatians 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
Not hell is a consequence. Only from the sociopathic mindset does one come to this notion.
As per this OP, repent while you still can, the Great White Throne is not a good place to have second thoughts.
Blasphemy 1 - Speaking against the Most High
You are saying God is a Torturer. In the absence of any logical reason for a hell, you are making the most vile assertions to the Character of God. Do you have any logical reason a hell should exist? Then why are ascribing the Most High such a vile character.
Blasphemy 2 - Speaking against the Scriptures (unforgivable sin)
You did not conform Rev 20:14 to your single hell assertion. Does that mean that you are denying the veracity of this single verse? If so, consider Rev 22:18-19,
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
If not, your hell declaration has been tested and found to be wanting. Since you harp your vitriol day in and day out, consider Matt 7:15-23 "....Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ "
When you worship this fantastical hell that obeys no logical rules, consider Isaiah 8:19-22 "... And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness." Your are shirking the light of joy for the darkness of hell. Stop teaching.
Blasphemy 3 - Calling Jesus a liar
Once again Rev 20:14, conform it or you are saying the Book of Revelation is of no effect. Consider Rev 1:1-2
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
If your reverence of the 2 witnesses so limited by your hellmongering, should you not give up hell? Glory to Jesus, the Father of Eternity not some pagan notion that fulfills the darkest desires of the human mind.
Galatians 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
Not hell is a consequence. Only from the sociopathic mindset does one come to this notion.
As per this OP, repent while you still can, the Great White Throne is not a good place to have second thoughts.
Job 13
Easy-to-Read Version
13 “I have seen all this before.
I have already heard everything you say.
I understand all these things.
2 I know as much as you do.
I am as smart as you are.
3 But I don’t want to argue with you.
I want to speak to God All-Powerful.
I want to argue with God about my troubles.
4 But you men try to cover up your ignorance with lies.
You are like worthless doctors who cannot heal anyone.
5 I wish you would just be quiet.
That would be the wisest thing you could do.
6 “Now, listen to my argument.
Listen to what I have to say.
7 Will you speak lies for God?
Do you really believe your lies are what God wants you to say?
8 Are you trying to defend God against me?
You are not being fair.
You are choosing God’s side simply because he is God.
9 If God checked you very closely,
would he see that you are right?
Do you really think you can fool God
the same as you fool people?
10 You know that God would criticize you
if you chose someone’s side simply because they were important.
11 God’s majesty frightens you.
You are afraid of him.
12 The wise sayings you quote are worthless.
Your arguments are as weak as clay.
13 “Be quiet and let me talk!
I accept whatever happens to me.
14 I will put myself in danger
and take my life in my own hands.
15 I will continue to trust God even if he kills me.[a]
But I will defend myself to his face.
16 And if he lets me live, it will be because I had the confidence to speak.
No guilty person would dare meet God face to face.
17 Listen carefully to what I say.
Let me explain.
18 I am ready now to defend myself.
I will carefully present my arguments.
I know I will be shown to be right.
19 If anyone can prove I am wrong,
I will shut up and wait to die.
20 “God, just give me two things,
and then I will not hide from you:
21 Stop punishing me,
and don’t frighten me with your terrors.
22 Then call to me, and I will answer you.
Or let me speak, and you answer me.
23 How many sins have I committed?
What wrongs have I done?
Show me where I went wrong or how I sinned.
24 God, why do you avoid me
and treat me like your enemy?
25 Are you trying to scare me?
I am only a leaf blowing in the wind.
You are attacking a piece of straw!
26 You have a list of terrible charges against me.
Are you making me suffer for the sins I did when I was young?
27 You have put chains on my feet.
You watch every step I take.
You see every move I make.
28 So I am becoming weaker and weaker,
like a piece of wood rotting away,
like a piece of cloth eaten by moths.
Easy-to-Read Version
13 “I have seen all this before.
I have already heard everything you say.
I understand all these things.
2 I know as much as you do.
I am as smart as you are.
3 But I don’t want to argue with you.
I want to speak to God All-Powerful.
I want to argue with God about my troubles.
4 But you men try to cover up your ignorance with lies.
You are like worthless doctors who cannot heal anyone.
5 I wish you would just be quiet.
That would be the wisest thing you could do.
6 “Now, listen to my argument.
Listen to what I have to say.
7 Will you speak lies for God?
Do you really believe your lies are what God wants you to say?
8 Are you trying to defend God against me?
You are not being fair.
You are choosing God’s side simply because he is God.
9 If God checked you very closely,
would he see that you are right?
Do you really think you can fool God
the same as you fool people?
10 You know that God would criticize you
if you chose someone’s side simply because they were important.
11 God’s majesty frightens you.
You are afraid of him.
12 The wise sayings you quote are worthless.
Your arguments are as weak as clay.
13 “Be quiet and let me talk!
I accept whatever happens to me.
14 I will put myself in danger
and take my life in my own hands.
15 I will continue to trust God even if he kills me.[a]
But I will defend myself to his face.
16 And if he lets me live, it will be because I had the confidence to speak.
No guilty person would dare meet God face to face.
17 Listen carefully to what I say.
Let me explain.
18 I am ready now to defend myself.
I will carefully present my arguments.
I know I will be shown to be right.
19 If anyone can prove I am wrong,
I will shut up and wait to die.
20 “God, just give me two things,
and then I will not hide from you:
21 Stop punishing me,
and don’t frighten me with your terrors.
22 Then call to me, and I will answer you.
Or let me speak, and you answer me.
23 How many sins have I committed?
What wrongs have I done?
Show me where I went wrong or how I sinned.
24 God, why do you avoid me
and treat me like your enemy?
25 Are you trying to scare me?
I am only a leaf blowing in the wind.
You are attacking a piece of straw!
26 You have a list of terrible charges against me.
Are you making me suffer for the sins I did when I was young?
27 You have put chains on my feet.
You watch every step I take.
You see every move I make.
28 So I am becoming weaker and weaker,
like a piece of wood rotting away,
like a piece of cloth eaten by moths.