Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[Cobus]

How would you respond to John 3:19? Jesus said that no man could come to Him except the Father draw him. Jesus said if He were lifted up He would draw all men unto Him. John 12:32 John 6:44

For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE]

My point exactly.... We did not go close to Jesus because we gave our hearts to Him... In fact the word says GOD WILL TAKE THE STONY HEART.... And maybe this DRAWINF of God is GOD TAKING THE STONY HEART.... Do you see the OPPOSITE is actually true... We do not give, GOD TAKES!!!!

Do you see in all your verses it is the DRAW of GOD that makes us draw near to Him... It is NOT our doing but HIS... I CANNOT GO NEAR TO GOD IF HE DOES NOT DRAW ME... Oh there is beautiful SCRIPTURE wbout this... Saul to Paul is my facvourate.

My friend, God is the one who starts the WORK HE DOES, and God is the COMPLETER of the WORK HE FINISHES... He is the WORKER, not us.

JC do you know why Paul and Peter had this "argument" ... If you can tell me what you learned form that scripture you will know why they HAD TO HAVE THIS "argument". Please share with us your findings on that scripture... then you will know THEY HAD TO HAVE THIS FOR OUR BENEFIT...

 

[notuptome]

My point exactly.... We did not go close to Jesus because we gave our hearts to Him... In fact the word says GOD WILL TAKE THE STONY HEART.... And maybe this DRAWINF of God is GOD TAKING THE STONY HEART.... Do you see the OPPOSITE is actually true... We do not give, GOD TAKES!!!!

Do you see in all your verses it is the DRAW of GOD that makes us draw near to Him... It is NOT our doing but HIS... I CANNOT GO NEAR TO GOD IF HE DOES NOT DRAW ME... Oh there is beautiful SCRIPTURE wbout this... Saul to Paul is my facvourate.

My friend, God is the one who starts the WORK HE DOES, and God is the COMPLETER of the WORK HE FINISHES... He is the WORKER, not us.

JC do you know why Paul and Peter had this "argument" ... If you can tell me what you learned form that scripture you will know why they HAD TO HAVE THIS "argument". Please share with us your findings on that scripture... then you will know THEY HAD TO HAVE THIS FOR OUR BENEFIT...

John 3:19 clearly teaches that men have a choice. They turn away from God because they love their sin and hate the light. God does not save any soul against it's will. The sovereignty of God is not trumped by the free will of man.
I do not argue that all that is required for salvation Christ has finished but man must surrender his will and receive what Christ has done to inherit eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[savedNblessed]

I was baptized when I was young, by my parents according to the Methodist rule. I wasn't saved then but I am saved now. I haven't been baptized again. But if the Lord calls me HOME right now, without a doubt I'll be spending the eternity with Him. I'm not boasting but the Bible I've read and understood doesn't make my salvation depend on a dip in the water. Lately, I've seen this a lot here, that baptism is being coined as sign of salvation. Yes, baptism could be used as a form of testimony but baptism doesn't save. It's the grace that does.

 

[jinx]

been gone for a day, where are we on this topic? LOL

 

[SeekingJC]

Cobus,

Cephas was hiding his true convictions. He ate with the gentile converts but withdrew when the Jews came. Out of fear it was hypocrisy and against what he was shown to do. And of course it is for our benefit the bible is for our benefit. So your saying all the lessons of the bible are only for our benefit and didnt apply to the people they were about. That seems blasphemous to me show me in scripture where it said it was just for future generations benefit and didnt apply to Peter. Interested to see that. I'm new in my relationship with Christ but praise Jesus he gave me a good helping of discernment. I know how to read the bible I read 5-6 different versions for comparisons sake just to make sure I'm not being duped lol. I read NLT/NIV/KJV/NASB/NKJV/and sometimes even Amplified when I need to strip it down to basics before I read it up to other versions. When Im really confused Ill grab my sons international children's bible lol . No shame in being new haha

 

[christian85]

I don't understand why there is a debate on this in the first place. If Christ commands it, what's so hard about the "doing"?

Because sadly most people today do not do not study God's word and have just taken what someone else has said as fact.
Mark 7:7
"But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

 

[livingepistle]

[h=3]Romans 7:4-6[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

Now let us be clear on one thing here the Babtism is not said to be water or Spirit, this is not made clear
Yet since no one can be born again except by the Spirit of God this Babtism that is spoken of is not water, even though people use it as water and turn it into a symbol as if one is born again this way

Again John was clear on his Babtism diminishing and Christ's Babtism was to become the babtism not of water but of the Holy Ghost. And this today is what we are all in after the cross in a new Covenant, new Laws and under a new Priesthood
See it if God will permit

Concerning Law

Matthew 5:17-18

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Not one scripture that is presented in my post has anything to do with Law. Noah entered the ark by faith; children of Israel crossed through the Red Sea by faith, the Priests washed knowing that it was a requirement, not a law. Ritual washing in Judaism, or ablution, takes two main forms. One washing by immersion with water from the "Molten Sea" that sat upon the backs of 12 bronze oxen. Read it for yourself.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law not the doing away of it. The fulfillment is in part held to rituals performed physically by the Saints today. Examples:

(NT) “the Lord’s Supper” > Passover Lamb Supper (OT)
(NT) “Water Baptism” > A tevilah (טְבִילָה) is a full body immersion in a mikveh. (Molten Sea: large basin in the Temple in Jerusalem made by Solomon for ablution--immersion in water--of the priests before entering the Holy Outer-Chamber.
And let us not forget the washing of feet commanded by Jesus to be performed—more water:
These were not "written laws" they were performed by submitting to the private covenant that G-d entered into with the Levites and then some were set aside and required only the first born without anatomical spot or blemish. Totally separate agreements of operation by submission of "will" to the work "set aside" by God--Then the priests--then the High Priest. Each with a set of rules of operation and lifestyle. All according to their faith and spoken confession of willingness to comply to the commandments meant for them alone and "set aside from the nation of Israel. Check it for yourself.

They were also responsible for interpreting the law since they represented the living-law given to them directly from G-d unto the people. Covenants are entered into with faith of performance by both parties to the agreement. The sign of that faith-covenant is a seal, usually in the OT days by blood or the giving of something considered of great value. In the case of the Priests, the first born son.

Sacrifices:The sacrifices performed by the Priests, were they under law or were they made by faith? The tithes collected was it by faith or by law? If you say by law, then Abraham's, Adam's, and Abel's sacrifices are all in vain and that includes Abraham's free-will offering of tithes; including your sacrifice by faith unto the Lord; e.g., presenting your temple as a living sacrifice... By faith because you are the children of faith through Abraham. "Am I correct?"

Gal. 3:26-29
26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Please read the scriptures prior to 3:26-29 because they discuss the Law as you expound in your post. Paul makes a conditional statement written in the 27th verse in bold text. Then show one scripture that says we are baptized into Christ by receiving the Holy Spirit, Spirit, or anointing of the Spirit and or by Faith alone.

"Were the blood sacrifices continued into the Priesthood?", yes it was. Blood sacrifice was first performed by G-d with Adam and Eve then continued up to the perfect sacrifice--JESUS. The same faith in G-d that caused Abraham to answer the call to sacrifice his only begotten son, is the same faith that caused the Levitical Priests to enter into a faith covenant with G-d to perform His acts of faith that continued to cover believers until He provided His perfect sacrifice once and for all eternity.

“Did Jesus fulfill the “Passover lamb” part of the Law according to your explanation?” yes he did, which by the way was not under law. “Did he say to continue it as a memorial to the ‘Lamb-Crucifixion’ and give the ritual process of how to continue it?” yes he did; most refer to it as the “Lord’s Supper”.

Please note this memorial was done before the cross and continued after the cross. Pointing back to the night before deliverance from bondage and the crossing of the Red Sea. Since this is true, some parts of the law were not totally abolished were they?

[Oh-No, Not More Water…Yes More Water[

John 13:1-17
13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet.

Wow, this is Spiritual also. We must enter into foot washing by the Spirit….ooooooo…I spiritually submit and show my humbleness and servitude to my fellow brother by faith alone—NOT.


The laws that remain pertinent, does concern entering “into” Jesus. Jesus is our "event horizon", the threshold by which we enter into eternal life.
<See Part 2> I have a different post in response to your “water baptism” statement.

Great comments you present. I am enjoying this conversation.

 

[bubba]

New here, but can anybody show from scripture where Paul was baptized in water or Cornelius.

 

[Cobus]

Cobus,

Cephas was hiding his true convictions. He ate with the gentile converts but withdrew when the Jews came. Out of fear it was hypocrisy and against what he was shown to do. And of course it is for our benefit the bible is for our benefit. So your saying all the lessons of the bible are only for our benefit and didnt apply to the people they were about. That seems blasphemous to me show me in scripture where it said it was just for future generations benefit and didnt apply to Peter. Interested to see that. I'm new in my relationship with Christ but praise Jesus he gave me a good helping of discernment. I know how to read the bible I read 5-6 different versions for comparisons sake just to make sure I'm not being duped lol. I read NLT/NIV/KJV/NASB/NKJV/and sometimes even Amplified when I need to strip it down to basics before I read it up to other versions. When Im really confused Ill grab my sons international children's bible lol . No shame in being new haha

Oh boy are the people dramatic. And how you descern the spirit I write with I cannot understand... I write ALL my posts for the Love of God! I hope to grow and draw closer to God with EVERY person here on CC. How silly would it be for me to believe God played a puppet show so I could learn...

I am not saying these people did not benifit, I cannot see how you even got that thought, EXCEPT from SAtan that wants us to stop being friends... Maybe he is threatened by our conversation. I mean PAul even said to Timothy... TEACH... So I cannot even think those things. Do not so easely throw things into the conversation.. Let us stick to the lesson and the GOAL of the lesson...

God said to Ananias... PAUL IS MY VESSEL TO TAKE THE GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES... And Peter KNEW THIS... He should have respected that... God sent Peter a vision, a couple of times, and then God commanded Simon Peter to go to a Gentile and God SHOWED Peter that He now are going to baptize the Gentiles also with His Spirit... Peter should have made sure He stuck to the JEW-CHURCH. Paul was the CHOSEN ONE for the Gentiles.

And that is bout the whole lesson learned from that... BUT!!! Imagine it was not in the Bible? Do you know how many things people would have twisted in the Bible then? By God showiing us that we should stick to what HE COMMAND US, and not change a SINGLE thing, we can learn that even going into ministry GOD DID NOT SEND YOU TOO, is WRONG!!!!

I was asked to give a talk to a school of kids. These kids are at a situation where there criminal lifestyle landed them in this school. The next step is a Jail-school. Where they would be locked up in a barbed fence school. It is the last "open fenced" school before they are handed to the department of Correctional services...

But if a person asks, it is not to say GOD WANTS.. So this is what I do... I say, I have to know what God wants... And then I go and ask. I am not like other Pastors in town, I need God to tell me, and even confirms it three times. So here is my MOTTO... God does not need me, He can do ALL THINGS... God can even send an Angel to minister, and He can even write with a hand on a wall, but if God wants it that I should go, I will be there. And HE WILL TEACH!

I am very much like Jonah, but hopefully moe and more like the GOOD SERVANT... Speak Lord your servant listens...

I do know however, God is faithful and He is LORD, so I know His will will be done.

 

[livingepistle]

Okay let us say this then, what if they never recieved the Holy Ghost Babtism? Just the water of John's would they be saved when the only way to serve God today is in God's Spirit

[/LIST]

You are very astute in the Word of God and I am not attempting to teach but share. For anyone that is a believer and do not have the Holy Spirit must believe to receive it. One cannot complete the requirement according to the Word for entering into the kingdom of God.

Everything you state concerning the Holy Spirit is correct but we would be remiss to ignore the importance of the “water baptism”. It is a principle and a commandment for entering into the kingdom of God. Please consider the following scriptures that say “water baptism” continues after the cross:

Acts 19:1-8
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
8And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, arguing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Verses 5-6 categorically negate assertions that water was only up to John’s baptism before the cross and after the cross is no longer required. Notice that in the 8th verse, Paul continues to the synagogue and preached the same thing concerning the kingdom of God.

Now consider Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…

The 47th verse says it all, water baptism is required and is commanded.

Great scriptures that you provided.

 

[livingepistle]

New here, but can anybody show from scripture where Paul was baptized in water or Cornelius.

10:1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway…24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends…25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him…26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man…27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together…30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,…31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee…44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word…45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter…47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?...48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The scriptures are posted in a manner to track Cornelius to the point that his entire house was baptized; all that were present in his house including Cornelius was baptized.

Paul Baptized

Acts 9:17-19

King James Version (KJV)
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.


Subsequent to Ananias performing this for Paul as commanded by Jesus, Paul performed the same deed for the disciples of John the Bpatist with the exception of opening blinded eyes.

 

[livingepistle]

so then by the operation of God consider thyself dead to flesh here and now
Now let us be clear on one thing here the Babtism is not said to be water or Spirit, this is not made clear
Yet since no one can be born again except by the Spirit of God this Babtism that is spoken of is not water, even though people use it as water and turn it into a symbol as if one is born again this way
Again John was clear on his Babtism diminishing and Christ's Babtism was to become the babtism not of water but of the Holy Ghost. And this today is what we are all in after the cross in a new Covenant, new Laws and under a new Priesthood
See it if God will permit

If all you state is true, why then does Paul baptize John's disciples, why did Peter baptize Cornelius and all his household? Water Baptism is a requirement and a commandment. It is a principle of being "Saved", "Born Again", "New Birth Experience". After the being "Born Again" we build up to the Spiritual matters, all that you present here. Afterwards, we grow in the Spirit. We as believers must be born again, if we do not, then we are just uncommitted believers hanging around Jesus and the Saints for benefits without commitment. If you love Jesus as you confess, then obey what he has written in the Word and do not worry about understanding it first. "Do you love Jesus?" I know that you do. As a CC friend, get "water baptized in Jesus' name" and enjoy the full benefits of being "Born Again". If it does nothing for you, then all that can happen is you got a free bath.

Scales Fall Away That We All May See

 

[Tintin]

Baptism is an outward sign, a witness to the public that you're now a new creation in Christ.

 

[livingepistle]

Baptism is an outward sign, a witness to the public that you're now a new creation in Christ.

AMEN

Keep Preaching

 

[homwardbound]

UHH Homeward,

Doesn't Jesus in that verse say very clearly that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven one must be born of what? Doesn't Jesus very clearly say water and the Spirit? What do you think Jesus is talking about? Don't you think maybe Jesus is very plainly speaking of baptisim?

And sister the verse right after that clarifies what Jesus was talking about
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Flesh is the water that he was talkiing about, I see and understand you are stuck on water as being water babtism, okay so lets say this to be so, Where is any life in water Babtism? No it is a good conscious towards God that starts one's flesh in motion to do what is right, it is a babtism of repentance, therefore it is a good conscious towards God and starts one flesh in motion, but still there is no life without the Spirit
Oh well hoping god to show yuo what is being said

 

[homwardbound]

Cobus,

Cephas was hiding his true convictions. He ate with the gentile converts but withdrew when the Jews came. Out of fear it was hypocrisy and against what he was shown to do. And of course it is for our benefit the bible is for our benefit. So your saying all the lessons of the bible are only for our benefit and didnt apply to the people they were about. That seems blasphemous to me show me in scripture where it said it was just for future generations benefit and didnt apply to Peter. Interested to see that. I'm new in my relationship with Christ but praise Jesus he gave me a good helping of discernment. I know how to read the bible I read 5-6 different versions for comparisons sake just to make sure I'm not being duped lol. I read NLT/NIV/KJV/NASB/NKJV/and sometimes even Amplified when I need to strip it down to basics before I read it up to other versions. When Im really confused Ill grab my sons international children's bible lol . No shame in being new haha

welcome to the kingdom of heaven, being a citizen there, and no longer belonging to this world, only in it,as an ambassador representing the Love, Joy, peace and righteousness found in Christ and Father, through the Holy Ghost of God now your teacher to all that is true and false. Praise God forever and ever

 

[homwardbound]

Because sadly most people today do not do not study God's word and have just taken what someone else has said as fact.
Mark 7:7
"But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

yes very important to read the word in context and seek God to show youwaht is truth and not, for there are many people gone out ot decieve andrecieve for themselves,acting as if they are for you when they are not, God is for us,and we each need to read in context, trusting God to reveal the truth about what is today, compared to what was then.

 

[Cobus]

Homey, have you ever asked God what this water is Jesus talks about....
Would you share what you believe it is...
John 4:10... If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

And this one Homey.... John 7:38... He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

One more my friend... Eph 5:26.... That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
If you look at this last verse it actually means as though there is a bath, full of WORD-WATER... God's Word is the water, and there is a BATHING IN THE WORD/WATER, that will cleanse you and SAnctify you... AS JESUS SAID IN JOHN 17:17.... Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I LOVE GOD'S WORD and how PERFECTLY ALL COMES TOGETHER...

 

[Cobus]

Baptism is an outward sign, a witness to the public that you're now a new creation in Christ.

TINTIN were you baptized... Then it did not work. I still see OLD in you.... God says the NEW CREATION IN CHRIST IS THIS....
2 Cor 5:16... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Please note that ALL things are new. AND THE OLD HAS PASSED. Now ask yourself, is ALL the old gone and TINTIN is ALL NEW IN CHRIST...

Me? Nope the old is still PASSING AWAY... Not gone YET.

But this BAPTISM, TINTIN... ALL IS MADE NEW... The baptism of HOLY GHOST.

 

[homwardbound]

Concerning Law

Matthew 5:17-18

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Not one scripture that is presented in my post has anything to do with Law. Noah entered the ark by faith; children of Israel crossed through the Red Sea by faith, the Priests washed knowing that it was a requirement, not a law. Ritual washing in Judaism, or ablution, takes two main forms. One washing by immersion with water from the "Molten Sea" that sat upon the backs of 12 bronze oxen. Read it for yourself.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law not the doing away of it. The fulfillment is in part held to rituals performed physically by the Saints today. Examples:

(NT) “the Lord’s Supper” > Passover Lamb Supper (OT)
(NT) “Water Baptism” > A tevilah (טְבִילָה) is a full body immersion in a mikveh. (Molten Sea: large basin in the Temple in Jerusalem made by Solomon for ablution--immersion in water--of the priests before entering the Holy Outer-Chamber.
And let us not forget the washing of feet commanded by Jesus to be performed—more water:
These were not "written laws" they were performed by submitting to the private covenant that G-d entered into with the Levites and then some were set aside and required only the first born without anatomical spot or blemish. Totally separate agreements of operation by submission of "will" to the work "set aside" by God--Then the priests--then the High Priest. Each with a set of rules of operation and lifestyle. All according to their faith and spoken confession of willingness to comply to the commandments meant for them alone and "set aside from the nation of Israel. Check it for yourself.

They were also responsible for interpreting the law since they represented the living-law given to them directly from G-d unto the people. Covenants are entered into with faith of performance by both parties to the agreement. The sign of that faith-covenant is a seal, usually in the OT days by blood or the giving of something considered of great value. In the case of the Priests, the first born son.

Sacrifices:The sacrifices performed by the Priests, were they under law or were they made by faith? The tithes collected was it by faith or by law? If you say by law, then Abraham's, Adam's, and Abel's sacrifices are all in vain and that includes Abraham's free-will offering of tithes; including your sacrifice by faith unto the Lord; e.g., presenting your temple as a living sacrifice... By faith because you are the children of faith through Abraham. "Am I correct?"

Gal. 3:26-29
26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Please read the scriptures prior to 3:26-29 because they discuss the Law as you expound in your post. Paul makes a conditional statement written in the 27th verse in bold text. Then show one scripture that says we are baptized into Christ by receiving the Holy Spirit, Spirit, or anointing of the Spirit and or by Faith alone.

"Were the blood sacrifices continued into the Priesthood?", yes it was. Blood sacrifice was first performed by G-d with Adam and Eve then continued up to the perfect sacrifice--JESUS. The same faith in G-d that caused Abraham to answer the call to sacrifice his only begotten son, is the same faith that caused the Levitical Priests to enter into a faith covenant with G-d to perform His acts of faith that continued to cover believers until He provided His perfect sacrifice once and for all eternity.

“Did Jesus fulfill the “Passover lamb” part of the Law according to your explanation?” yes he did, which by the way was not under law. “Did he say to continue it as a memorial to the ‘Lamb-Crucifixion’ and give the ritual process of how to continue it?” yes he did; most refer to it as the “Lord’s Supper”.

Please note this memorial was done before the cross and continued after the cross. Pointing back to the night before deliverance from bondage and the crossing of the Red Sea. Since this is true, some parts of the law were not totally abolished were they?

[Oh-No, Not More Water…Yes More Water[

John 13:1-17
13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet.

Wow, this is Spiritual also. We must enter into foot washing by the Spirit….ooooooo…I spiritually submit and show my humbleness and servitude to my fellow brother by faith alone—NOT.


The laws that remain pertinent, does concern entering “into” Jesus. Jesus is our "event horizon", the threshold by which we enter into eternal life.
<See Part 2> I have a different post in response to your “water baptism” statement.

Great comments you present. I am enjoying this conversation.

Thank You, and yours as well, today by Christ thelaw and prophets of old are fulfilled andas John said to him that hJohn should be babtized by Christ, Christ said "HE" must do all that is right, and John thus Babtiuzed him, then the spirit came upon him in the form of a dove and a voice from Heaven said this is my Son in whom I (God) am well pleased
So at the cross as he gave up the Ghost did Christ do what he said he came to do? Matt 5:17 did Christ by himself fulfill the Law and Ptophets of the Old Covenat or not? It is what he said he came to do yes?
so then I say he did hefulfilled the Law and Prophets. he said this that he did all that he was told to do in John clearly I think from the 14th chapter on, it is very clear might be 15th on, but finally after going all through these chapters in context as to waht Christ is saying to Father about doing Fathers will, he then in John 19:30 while on the cross about to die yells out "IT IS FINISHED" so waht was finished his work that he was called to do, he fulfilled all.
And while we all were still sinners he died for us, took thesin issue to the cross and condemned the sin all sin to the cross, to the flesh. And so this is why it is vitally important to be born again of the Spirit , whether one gets dunked in water or not.
Acts 10, shows clearly about the household of Cornelious getting saved by babtism of the holy Ghostbefore any watering was done
[h=3]Acts 10:44-48[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. [SUP]45 [/SUP]The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. [SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, [SUP]47 [/SUP]“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” [SUP]48 [/SUP]So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

even though they were water Babtized afterwords if they had not been would that have made the indwelling of the Holy Ghost Void?