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You are very astute in the Word of God and I am not attempting to teach but share. For anyone that is a believer and do not have the Holy Spirit must believe to receive it. One cannot complete the requirement according to the Word for entering into the kingdom of God.
Everything you state concerning the Holy Spirit is correct but we would be remiss to ignore the importance of the “water baptism”. It is a principle and a commandment for entering into the kingdom of God. Please consider the following scriptures that say “water baptism” continues after the cross:
Acts 19:1-8
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
8And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, arguing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Verses 5-6 categorically negate assertions that water was only up to John’s baptism before the cross and after the cross is no longer required. Notice that in the 8th verse, Paul continues to the synagogue and preached the same thing concerning the kingdom of God.
Now consider Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…
The 47th verse says it all, water baptism is required and is commanded.
Great scriptures that you provided.
Everything you state concerning the Holy Spirit is correct but we would be remiss to ignore the importance of the “water baptism”. It is a principle and a commandment for entering into the kingdom of God. Please consider the following scriptures that say “water baptism” continues after the cross:Acts 19:1-8
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
8And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, arguing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Verses 5-6 categorically negate assertions that water was only up to John’s baptism before the cross and after the cross is no longer required. Notice that in the 8th verse, Paul continues to the synagogue and preached the same thing concerning the kingdom of God.
Now consider Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…
The 47th verse says it all, water baptism is required and is commanded.
Great scriptures that you provided.
I think not, now I would and have been water Babtized and have not gone against it beiing done, I am only dividing the word as it is said in scripture in context.
Do you agree that water Babtism of John and that the Babtism of the Holy Ghost are two types of Babtism?
So which Babtism saves?
Water Babtism starts one on a path of trying to do waht is right and finds out that he can't make it, trying toplease God and others in the process and not always, but one a lot of times are most miserable behind closed doors, not wanting anyone to see their fraities, They want to look good in front of others all the time, and hopefully find a friend that won't get on an intercom ansannounce one's Failures, you know cause I believe so well in front of others.
Thus being no born again life in that individual, only famking it as if they have it. Been there done that. So each here please have an ear and hear what the Spirit is saying to you personally
God does just love you, and now respond to that!!!!! Quit trying to initiate a good well bred life, we are the creation not the creator. God wants respondersto God's love, not initiators to create a love to one's liking
Love you all
One is not a believer apart from the Holy Spirit. It is the entrance of the Holy Spirit that makes us a new creature in Christ.
Everything you state concerning the Holy Spirit is correct but we would be remiss to ignore the importance of the “water baptism”. It is a principle and a commandment for entering into the kingdom of God. Please consider the following scriptures that say “water baptism” continues after the cross:
Acts 19:1-8
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
8And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, arguing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Verses 5-6 categorically negate assertions that water was only up to John’s baptism before the cross and after the cross is no longer required. Notice that in the 8th verse, Paul continues to the synagogue and preached the same thing concerning the kingdom of God.
Now consider Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…
The 47th verse says it all, water baptism is required and is commanded.
Great scriptures that you provided.
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Received you the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
8And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, arguing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Verses 5-6 categorically negate assertions that water was only up to John’s baptism before the cross and after the cross is no longer required. Notice that in the 8th verse, Paul continues to the synagogue and preached the same thing concerning the kingdom of God.
Now consider Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord…
The 47th verse says it all, water baptism is required and is commanded.
Great scriptures that you provided.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If all you state is true, why then does Paul baptize John's disciples, why did Peter baptize Cornelius and all his household? Water Baptism is a requirement and a commandment. It is a principle of being "Saved", "Born Again", "New Birth Experience". After the being "Born Again" we build up to the Spiritual matters, all that you present here. Afterwards, we grow in the Spirit. We as believers must be born again, if we do not, then we are just uncommitted believers hanging around Jesus and the Saints for benefits without commitment. If you love Jesus as you confess, then obey what he has written in the Word and do not worry about understanding it first. "Do you love Jesus?" I know that you do. As a CC friend, get "water baptized in Jesus' name" and enjoy the full benefits of being "Born Again". If it does nothing for you, then all that can happen is you got a free bath.
Scales Fall Away That We All May See
Scales Fall Away That We All May See
Works of flesh or works of God waht is better since God the Father according to Christ is the only one good.
I can'tsay exactly why they did, Iwould only be conjecturing to the reason.
But that reallydoes not matter when the facts are shown as to what John the Babtiust said that he must decrease and Christ must increase, the he (John) only Babtised with water, but Christ with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
Itis also clear that there is onlt one Faith one Lord and one Babtism.
John said it is the Holy Ghost from Christ and with fire
Acts 1:5 says
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
This was about ten days before the Pentecost where tihs took place and allthings yet were not clear as to what stays and what goes.
Now if anyone wishes to do two Babtism or just one that is actually between God and that person that God has recieved and I am not going to judge anyone on this, each decides for themself between them and god personally
[h=3]Romans 14:1-12[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]The Weak and the Strong[/h]14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. [SUP]2 [/SUP]One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
not to put a wrench in the ointment or anything Tintin, I know you believe, yet how many use this today as a way to decieve others? I was not born yestrerday and I thank God for showing me these things, hopefully to show others to please have sincereity in wanting to serve the living God, and not masquerade playing Church to fleece the flock,as Iahve seen done by others and others very hurt over it, and in essence amny times hurts the very Gospel of God
Ithnk god this is not you Tintin and as well many others coming here to learn about the depth of God's LOVE
Where sin abounded Grace abounded much more, but the purpose of this is not to use this grace as a liscence to harm anyone else, rather to appreciate and have a heart of compassion to all and for all having the reception of the Holy Ghost where one can recieve God's typeof Love 1 cor 13:4-13 best describes this type and no flesh can do this type without being born again.
The differance between water and Spirit Babtism.
Thanks Tintin, hope to not have caused any descrephancies Brother, just used your post
Ithnk god this is not you Tintin and as well many others coming here to learn about the depth of God's LOVE
Where sin abounded Grace abounded much more, but the purpose of this is not to use this grace as a liscence to harm anyone else, rather to appreciate and have a heart of compassion to all and for all having the reception of the Holy Ghost where one can recieve God's typeof Love 1 cor 13:4-13 best describes this type and no flesh can do this type without being born again.
The differance between water and Spirit Babtism.
Thanks Tintin, hope to not have caused any descrephancies Brother, just used your post
Roger, there was no water in Judas' house in Straight street. And the word does not mention the WATER BAPTISM there,,, It says that Paul should be FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT... how does God fill with Holy Spirit, by dunking a fleshly body in WATER? And when is a person BAPTIZED IN CHRIST? Did Jesus become WATER?
Boy can people twist Scripture to suit their doctrine... Filling of THE HOLY GHOST is the BAPTISM OF HOLY GHOST, is THE ENTERING INTO GOD, is THE BORN OF GOD... IS the SALVATION of God...
All saved PEOPLE END UP IN GOD, and GOD IN THEM... Show me ONE Water baptism where this has happened... EVEN AFTER JESUS WAS BAPTIZED WITH WATER the HOLY SPIRIT DESCENDED.... Not even JESUS found the Holy Spirit in the WATER!
Come on people WAKE UP and stop trying to sell WATER as a saving matter! IT IS NOT!!! Water only stop the thirst for a while... BUT THE LIVING WATER is FOREVER!!!
Boy can people twist Scripture to suit their doctrine... Filling of THE HOLY GHOST is the BAPTISM OF HOLY GHOST, is THE ENTERING INTO GOD, is THE BORN OF GOD... IS the SALVATION of God...
All saved PEOPLE END UP IN GOD, and GOD IN THEM... Show me ONE Water baptism where this has happened... EVEN AFTER JESUS WAS BAPTIZED WITH WATER the HOLY SPIRIT DESCENDED.... Not even JESUS found the Holy Spirit in the WATER!
Come on people WAKE UP and stop trying to sell WATER as a saving matter! IT IS NOT!!! Water only stop the thirst for a while... BUT THE LIVING WATER is FOREVER!!!
Some things to notice here.... There were no water in the house, no big swimming pools or even baths... And PAul was to be FILLED with the HOLY GHOST... Like EPh 4 says... ONE BAPTISM.... SPIRIT BAPTISM... Look what the Bible teach..
ONE FATHER, ONE SPIRIT, ONE BAPTISM... If I am baptized into Christ, it is GOD BAPTIZING ME WITH THE HOLY GHOST (Christ Jesus) Then this is so true..
FATHER ABOVE ME, FATHER IN ME, FATHER THROUGH ME... WOW!!!! God above me, God in me, and God through me... SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD BAPTISM TO ME....
Even Jesus did not get the Holy Spirit in the WATER... But AFTER the water the Holy Spirit came dwn on Him... There is no SAVING in water... NONE!!! The salvation and the SEAL is in the SPIRIT BAPTISM... ONE BAPTISM... Water does not save, it only gives the thirst a go for a while... BUT THE LIVING WATER.... The Spirit of God... The TRUTH... THE WORD.... WOW! That saves and sanctify and fills and NEVER THIRST AGAIN...
ONE FATHER, ONE SPIRIT, ONE BAPTISM... If I am baptized into Christ, it is GOD BAPTIZING ME WITH THE HOLY GHOST (Christ Jesus) Then this is so true..
FATHER ABOVE ME, FATHER IN ME, FATHER THROUGH ME... WOW!!!! God above me, God in me, and God through me... SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD BAPTISM TO ME....
Even Jesus did not get the Holy Spirit in the WATER... But AFTER the water the Holy Spirit came dwn on Him... There is no SAVING in water... NONE!!! The salvation and the SEAL is in the SPIRIT BAPTISM... ONE BAPTISM... Water does not save, it only gives the thirst a go for a while... BUT THE LIVING WATER.... The Spirit of God... The TRUTH... THE WORD.... WOW! That saves and sanctify and fills and NEVER THIRST AGAIN...
Cornelius... Why naptize a man with water, if God already baptized the man with Spirit... that seemed wrong, and it was... Simon Peter often forsaked his vision for the Jews sake.. He and Paul had words about that....
That is why Simon said that they would allow only Paul to teach the Gentiles... AS GOD INTENDED... This is part of a lesson for us...
Do not mess with what God says... It is not right.
That is why Simon said that they would allow only Paul to teach the Gentiles... AS GOD INTENDED... This is part of a lesson for us...
Do not mess with what God says... It is not right.
John 4overhim telling her that he is the Messiah, the living water
John7,disputes over him as whether he is the Messiah by the people and it says afterword’sof the living waters being in him and we can receive them, but as of yet
37 On thelast and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, asScripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 Bythis he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet beenglorified.
Eph 5:26....That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
By the word,who is the word? Christ yes and Christ is also what? The living water and thisis after he has been sanctified in the Spirit and has washed us those thatbelieve in the Spirit
Instructionsfor Christian Households
21 Submit toone another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives,submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For thehusband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body,of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wivesshould submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands,love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle orany other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands oughtto love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care fortheir body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to hiswife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but Iam talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also mustlove his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
JOHN17:17.... Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jesuspraying to his Father securing all things a part of him completing the work that he was sent to complete, this isto you Cobus, me, and all that will come to belief in Christ seeing his workthat he did for us all, just awaiting one to believe and thus receive, drinkinghis living water, being washed in his Spirit, God's Spirit and thus walking bythe Spirit immersed in the Spirit, drinking Christ's blood as our totalcovering, the angel of death has passed over us because Christ has given uslife by his life, and we have died to self by the death and come alive by thelife.
And thecontext of 17 goes all the way through 19 where in 19:30 of John he yells"IT IS FINSHED" And what is finished is what he came to do, and thenafter the resurrection and explaining things further to the disciples hangingaround for forty days he says wait forwhat the Holy Ghost to come why? Because Cobus you or Ior anyone cannot trulydo the work of God without the Holy Ghost as our lead and we follow
No HolyGhost no born again life!!!!!!!!!!!!! Water Baptism does not dothis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only God does and this is provided to all that believe in thefull Gospel, the death, the burial, and most importantly the resurrection,where new life is received, not earned ever.
If anyonecould earn this then there would never have been a need for Christ, and ifanyone can earn this today after the cross then that person would not needChrist since they would be self-righteous
John7,disputes over him as whether he is the Messiah by the people and it says afterword’sof the living waters being in him and we can receive them, but as of yet
37 On thelast and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, asScripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 Bythis he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet beenglorified.
Eph 5:26....That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
By the word,who is the word? Christ yes and Christ is also what? The living water and thisis after he has been sanctified in the Spirit and has washed us those thatbelieve in the Spirit
Instructionsfor Christian Households
21 Submit toone another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives,submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For thehusband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body,of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wivesshould submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands,love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle orany other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands oughtto love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care fortheir body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to hiswife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but Iam talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also mustlove his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
JOHN17:17.... Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jesuspraying to his Father securing all things a part of him completing the work that he was sent to complete, this isto you Cobus, me, and all that will come to belief in Christ seeing his workthat he did for us all, just awaiting one to believe and thus receive, drinkinghis living water, being washed in his Spirit, God's Spirit and thus walking bythe Spirit immersed in the Spirit, drinking Christ's blood as our totalcovering, the angel of death has passed over us because Christ has given uslife by his life, and we have died to self by the death and come alive by thelife.
And thecontext of 17 goes all the way through 19 where in 19:30 of John he yells"IT IS FINSHED" And what is finished is what he came to do, and thenafter the resurrection and explaining things further to the disciples hangingaround for forty days he says wait forwhat the Holy Ghost to come why? Because Cobus you or Ior anyone cannot trulydo the work of God without the Holy Ghost as our lead and we follow
No HolyGhost no born again life!!!!!!!!!!!!! Water Baptism does not dothis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only God does and this is provided to all that believe in thefull Gospel, the death, the burial, and most importantly the resurrection,where new life is received, not earned ever.
If anyonecould earn this then there would never have been a need for Christ, and ifanyone can earn this today after the cross then that person would not needChrist since they would be self-righteous
S
Okay I think this is more of a language issue. I answered the question you asked me to the best of my abilities. What you said to me seems incorrect you said "THEY DID THIS FOR OUR BENEFIT" to which I gave my thoughts on the matter following what appeared to be your logic. And now you say my words are from Satan? Is this how you deal with anyone that disagrees with you? The lesson you were trying to make is that a person can not sin after receiving the Holy Spirit which I don't agree with. You asked for an example and I provided one. I'm truly sorry if my answers and questions offend you. I am constantly learning and testing my knowledge of His word so I ask a lot of questions. Usually I feel safe challenging people's viewpoints among brother and sisters and I realize that you have studied more than I have but when people say things like "Oh the things I could teach you" (that may be an approximation of the actual post but close) It throws up a red flag that a person is either overly excited to tell me how wrong I am or they want to show me how they are so gifted that I need to listen to them.
If you no longer want to speak with me that is your right. I am always open to all comments no matter if I agree with them or not. I mean you no harm or disrespect brother I'm just stating opinions answering and asking questions.
Also even by your interpretation of the passage he still was in sin after receiving the Holy Spirit.
In Christ,
SeekingJC
If you no longer want to speak with me that is your right. I am always open to all comments no matter if I agree with them or not. I mean you no harm or disrespect brother I'm just stating opinions answering and asking questions.
Also even by your interpretation of the passage he still was in sin after receiving the Holy Spirit.
In Christ,
SeekingJC
thanks home.
but i asked if you would clarify your assertion that baptism by fire was in anyway in Romans 6, by actually showing it in the text, since you appealed to it, without showing where it is:
where is there fire in this passage.
please be precise.
you are making assertions and appealing to scripture.
where is baptism by fire
Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
WHERE does paul say - for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here today in the sin nature flesh and alive to God
if it isn't in there, no need to write back your own thoughts on it.
it's either in there or it isn't.
i don't see it.
but i asked if you would clarify your assertion that baptism by fire was in anyway in Romans 6, by actually showing it in the text, since you appealed to it, without showing where it is:
where is there fire in this passage.
please be precise.
you are making assertions and appealing to scripture.
where is baptism by fire
Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
WHERE does paul say - for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here today in the sin nature flesh and alive to God
if it isn't in there, no need to write back your own thoughts on it.
it's either in there or it isn't.
i don't see it.
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Do you believe we experience no fire in this: James 1:2-3 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."
Is that not a making of an effective use of the same process of reaping and sowing, which for some destroys them, but to others trusting in learning from God through such things saves them ?
Is that not a making of an effective use of the same process of reaping and sowing, which for some destroys them, but to others trusting in learning from God through such things saves them ?
J
Where do you read anywhere in the Bible that baptism is an outward sign? Nowhere. The Bible says in Acts 2:38 "Repent and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSSION OF YOUR SINS." It's for the remission of sins not an outward sign. In I Peter 3:21 it says "For now BAPTISM does now also SAVE us" It saves us, not an outward sign. In Acts every conversion says they were baptized. When Philip taught the Eunuch the Eunuch said in Acts 8:36 "See here is water, what hinders me from being baptized. They stopped the chariot and both went down into the water and Philip baptized him."
Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"
Are we really to understand that Jesus meant by either of these statements that it was his desire to see men destroyed?
Doesn't it make better sense that he meant he desired to see the process whereby men would become vexed by and tired of sin beating them up would bring them to the point of becoming willing to humble themselves and listen so they might be saved?
Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"
Are we really to understand that Jesus meant by either of these statements that it was his desire to see men destroyed?
Doesn't it make better sense that he meant he desired to see the process whereby men would become vexed by and tired of sin beating them up would bring them to the point of becoming willing to humble themselves and listen so they might be saved?
It only states Babtism, not water nor Spirit, and I lean to Spirit because that is what John said Christ's Babtism is!!!!!
Matthew 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire
Today Sister we are after the cross after the resurrection and we by believein the death, burial and resurrection are dead to sin and alive to God as what Romans 6 states. I see no other way around this
And again I am not by any means saying no one should get babtized in water I think it a great start inito the begining of understanding this great salvation, starting one on the path to see for themselves how much they need Christ as the Author and finisher of their Faith in him. Salvation though true in its completed form is in the resurrection of Christ where we are born again and so thnkful one has not got time to sin, being so preoccupied in the New Spirit by the same resurrected Christ.
Like a worm that spins a coccoon and one day the coccon breaks and that worm is a butterfly. never ever to be a worm ever again. This Salvation is amazing and I just do not see how anyone could ever want to take advantage of it
Hope this helps
Matthew 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire
Today Sister we are after the cross after the resurrection and we by believein the death, burial and resurrection are dead to sin and alive to God as what Romans 6 states. I see no other way around this
And again I am not by any means saying no one should get babtized in water I think it a great start inito the begining of understanding this great salvation, starting one on the path to see for themselves how much they need Christ as the Author and finisher of their Faith in him. Salvation though true in its completed form is in the resurrection of Christ where we are born again and so thnkful one has not got time to sin, being so preoccupied in the New Spirit by the same resurrected Christ.
Like a worm that spins a coccoon and one day the coccon breaks and that worm is a butterfly. never ever to be a worm ever again. This Salvation is amazing and I just do not see how anyone could ever want to take advantage of it
Hope this helps
does Romans 6 mention baptism with/by fire?
that was the question.
the meaning/application of baptism is determined by the context.
prophecies of fire per judgment:
Isaiah 5:24
Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the LORD Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
and here is a pretty strong argument for baptizing with fire done by The LORD.
the prophecy c.711BC
Isaiah 61:2
He has sent me to tell those who mourn that the time of the LORD's favor has come, and with it, the day of God's anger against their enemies.
NLT
Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to bring good news to the poor;a
he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
ESV
the partial fulfillment of Isaiah:
Luke 4
Jesus Begins His Ministry
14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.
Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.
....
He intentionally did not read this part:
and the day of vengeance of our God.
....
so what is John saying here - about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire?:
Matthew 3
The Preaching of John the Baptist
1Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
“THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
‘MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!’”
4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
sound likes some will be baptized with the Holy Spirit; and some with fire.
doesn't it?
whenever i see people with loud praise bands, and working themselves into ecstatic states calling for FIRE, i just cringe.
that was the question.
the meaning/application of baptism is determined by the context.
prophecies of fire per judgment:
Isaiah 5:24
Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the LORD Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
and here is a pretty strong argument for baptizing with fire done by The LORD.
the prophecy c.711BC
Isaiah 61:2
He has sent me to tell those who mourn that the time of the LORD's favor has come, and with it, the day of God's anger against their enemies.
NLT
Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to bring good news to the poor;a
he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
ESV
the partial fulfillment of Isaiah:
Luke 4
Jesus Begins His Ministry
14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.
Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.
....
He intentionally did not read this part:
and the day of vengeance of our God.
....
so what is John saying here - about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire?:
Matthew 3
The Preaching of John the Baptist
1Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
“THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
‘MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!’”
4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
sound likes some will be baptized with the Holy Spirit; and some with fire.
doesn't it?
whenever i see people with loud praise bands, and working themselves into ecstatic states calling for FIRE, i just cringe.
Fire is not always physical fire. Moses saw a bush that burned but was not consumed. Isaiah had a live coal taken with tongs from the altar and touched his lips to purify him for service to the Lord. The cloven tongues of fire at Pentecost did not consume Peter and the other apostles. So in the figurative sense the Holy Spirit is a cleansing fire administered by the Lord when we are converted by grace through faith.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
