Is baptism required for salvation?

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B

Baptistrw

Guest
#1
Just curious to see what people on here think!
 
M

mommygrace

Guest
#2
NO...we are saved by grace through faith.
Not by works of righteousness.
Jesus referred to Baptism as a work of righteousness.
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#3
in a word...No
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
I think you might be asking the wrong question.

These verses indicate Baptism is a common experience to all believers. It doesn't appear optional.

Romans 6 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

Ephesians 4 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Colossians 2: 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Baptism seems closely linked to being saved..

Mark 16: 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Acts 2: 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."


Others verses say salvation is merely by grace and through faith, not of any work.


Ephesians 2:
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

James calls on believers to have works as evidence of their faith.

James 2: 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


The man who died on the cross next to Jesus was heaven bound and he wasn't baptized.


Luke 23:
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]" 43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."


So i would say baptism is a sign of obedience that shows faith is at work in you. It's a vital part of our Christian experience. So the question isn't, "Is baptism required?" The real question is, "Why would an obedient heart changed by grace not seek to be baptized?"

And in extreme circumstances where someone can't be baptized, I'd say God takes that in to consideration and lets the person get to heaven.
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#5
I agree with you Still. The unbaptized will never be more than disobedient Christians. It is the first step of obedience after salvation by grace through faith.
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#6
Baptism is not required for salvation, but it is a command to the saved.
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#7
Agreed onwings...
 
R

roaringkitten

Guest
#8
Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Titus 3:5, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

1 Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

1 Corinthians 1:15-17, “I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, that no man should say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel….”


In Mark, God clearly defines one's UNBELIEF as what makes a person unsaved. In Titus, God clearly states that works of righteousness do not save anyone. Peter clearly shows that the ANSWER of a good conscience toward God saves us! The answer, being FAITH in Jesus Christ! In 1st Corinthians Paul tells us that baptism is NOT even part of the gospel message!

In conclusion, water baptism declares to the world that we belong to Jesus, and is a step AFTER one's salvation.....Water baptism has no part in salvation at all......Read the scriptures and see that Jesus tells those he preached to, to focus on the OBJECT of one's faith(Jesus Christ himself!!!! Not the ritual!
 
H

hersecretrefuge

Guest
#9
I really agree with everyones answers ahaha. :)
 
M

Mel

Guest
#10
WE ALL GODS CHILDREN.

HALLELUJAH
 
May 30, 2008
133
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#11
According to the following scripture, I believe Jesus dosent have the keys to salvation coz He left with peter to open for all. in Mat 16. says
Mathew 16.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
MATTHEW 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

MATTHEW 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Then Jesus in His teaching and address to the Apostles He never left the Issue of baptism out

Mark 16: 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Then the man who was Given the Keys to the salvation when he came to open on the day of Pentecost he declared for your sins to be remitted first you must be baptized and its in the name (1)of JESUS CHRIST not Titles

Acts 2: 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

And Even when paul came on the scene he asked the Disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19: 1-6 which baptism were ye baptized since you havent received the Holy ghost and he ordered them to be baptised again to receive Him.

Acts 19
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
ACTS 19:2
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

ACTS 19:3
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

ACTS 19:4
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

ACTS 19:5
5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

ACTS 19:6
6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied


Believing on this grounds I personally went to the waters baptised in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
May 30, 2008
133
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#12
According to the following scripture, I believe Jesus dosent have the keys to salvation coz He left with peter to open for all. in Mat 16. says
Mathew 16.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
MATTHEW 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
MATTHEW 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then Jesus in His teaching and address to the Apostles He never left the Issue of baptism out

Mark 16: 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Then the man who was Given the Keys to the salvation when he came to open on the day of Pentecost he declared for your sins to be remitted first you must be baptized and its in the name (1)of JESUS CHRIST not Titles

Acts 2: 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off
 

RoboOp

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 4, 2008
1,424
548
113
#13
Good answer, 1still_waters.

My answer:

I wouldn't say a person absolutely can't get to heaven without being baptized, but I will say that in the scriptures, under normal circumstances, all new believers were immediately baptized. And I do mean immediately. In fact, we don't see any "sinner's prayer". Instead, we see immediate baptism -- and the baptism seems to be the way that they showed their repentance, or called on the Lord. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved", right? Look how Paul called on the Lord. He was told "and now why do you delay? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name." Yes, it's the "calling on His name" that saved him, but how did he call on His name? Through or duing his baptism. Peter said in Acts 2, when they were pierced to the heart and asked "what shallwe do?": "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, for the forgiveness of your sins". Again, the baptism seems to be their means of repentance (not a repeat-after-me sinner's prayer). The same Peter later writes in his epistle, "and now baptism saves you -- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience", or equivalently, baptism saves you, not the actual washing of the water, but the repentance that you make through/during baptism. Nowadays a lot of people who witness just make people do a "sinner's prayer", and later teach about baptism and schedule it for weeks or months later. But in the scriptures, it seems that their baptism was the normal means by which they showed/expressed their repentance (e.g., "appealing to God for a good conscience", or "calling on His name"). I know a lot of people do sincerely call on the Lord in a sinner's prayer and do experience God (and are born again) long before their scheduled baptism. But in the scriptures it's not quite like that. And I've seen too many people (like my in-laws) repeat after someone who came to their house to "lead them to the Lord" in a sinner's prayer, and then there's absolutley no change in their life. Years later, still worshipping Mary and following all the heresy of the Catholic church. And my point is that in the case of my in-laws, there was no invitation to show their repentance through baptism, even when the sea was right there literally 30 yards away. If they were invited to show their repentance and acceptance of Christ by immediately being baptized in His name right there across the street from their house -- which would have been a clear public renunciation of the Catholicism right there before all their Catholic neighbors -- they probably would have declined, and it would have been more apparent that no, they didn't really accept the gospel.

In Thailand I got to share with many students, and teach the Bible to them, and whenever one would finally start to believe in Jesus, I would immediately invite them to go show it at the university swimming pool by being baptised in His name. This practice of mine (strange idea I got from the Bible!) was in stark contrast to the practice of the local Asian churches which actually required new believers to go though all kinds of courses and what not and prove their life and whatever and wait typically one year before they could finally be baptized. I had students extremely discouraged by this unbiblical restriction and so I finally decided to just do things like they did in the Bible. Radical huh? :) But it was good for the students -- this real, physical act showed their sincerity, and made it more real to them that hey something really happened to them (and that something's happening in heaven -- the angel's having a party over one sinner repenting).
 
M

mommygrace

Guest
#14
Good RobOp....the New testament church was not hung up on the world...they desired to identify with Jesus by being baptized as He was Immediately...it was just a matter of course.Now people are so afraid what others will think of them that they are afraid to identify.....If we deny Him He will deny us....most likely refering to salvation but it could also be refering to your fellowship with The Lord....some are saved ..as yet by fire...by the skin of their teeth,,,so to speak. They are scared to walk the walk,,,,so they are with out guidance and answered prayer. Baptism is indeed the first step of obedience...The angels are indeed rejoicing......Keep up the good work!!!God bless you.

Thailand...by the way do know Rick Horn?????works with orphans...in a ministry there..also...Mike Sullivant??????
 
N

next_step

Guest
#15
Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Titus 3:5, “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

1 Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

1 Corinthians 1:15-17, “I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, that no man should say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel….”


In Mark, God clearly defines one's UNBELIEF as what makes a person unsaved. In Titus, God clearly states that works of righteousness do not save anyone. Peter clearly shows that the ANSWER of a good conscience toward God saves us! The answer, being FAITH in Jesus Christ! In 1st Corinthians Paul tells us that baptism is NOT even part of the gospel message!

In conclusion, water baptism declares to the world that we belong to Jesus, and is a step AFTER one's salvation.....Water baptism has no part in salvation at all......Read the scriptures and see that Jesus tells those he preached to, to focus on the OBJECT of one's faith(Jesus Christ himself!!!! Not the ritual!
When did the jews in acts receive the holy spirit? When did the gentiles receive the spirit? How would one understand hebrew? 1. Peter speaks to jews and I dont view it as a picture of the baptism with the spirit. It was necesssary for the jews one time.(I don't know believe it still is) We see this in acts and some of your scriptures even support this. Hebrew is impossible to understand in another way.
 
May 30, 2008
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#16
I wonder really if Peter was speaking toJews for them to be baptised and so that has nothing to us Gentiles then who opened the way of salvation. Peter at Colnelious house asked them to be baptised philip with the Ethiopian Eunach was baptised immedietly he believed.
What gospel is it for Gentiles and for Jews.
Jesus was speaking to multitude of Jews not Gentiles and we take those words as spoken to us.
Most letters of St Paul were to jews church yet we read them as letters to us.
When a gentile woman went to seek healing of her son from Jesus He told her. Math 15: 26 " But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs." refering to Gentiles.

Peter was given the keys to open to all not Jews as Jesus told them in Mathew 28: 19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
He was to open to all nations.

Honestly i think next-step you have missed the point.
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#17
I saw someone use this verse.. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 (KJV)


The word for there is tricky. But when you have a headache, do you take it to give you a headache, or because of a headache? The answer is the latter. And it's the same thing here. People are baptized because of the remission of sins, which they receive when placing faith in Christ.
 
N

next_step

Guest
#18
Read acts. The jews always needed the batism first to receive the holy spirit. The gentiles were baptised after the received the holy spirit. The difference is evident. I could quote it but just have this in mind when you read acts. Its always the same. For us nowdays its a confession and its obedience. But nothing that important or demanded for salvation. But I can't ignore hebrews, acts, 1. Peter 3,14 and the situation of the jews. I want to take the bible for what is acutally said there.

edit: sorry I dont think 1. Peter is just for the jews. I meant the specific scripture
 
Jan 16, 2009
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#19
I was never Baptized but i still dont see the point in it?
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#20
It is the first step of obedience after salvation to identify someone with the death, burial. and resurrection of Christ. It was a command of Christ, so you should probably get it done.
 
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