Is Believing/Behaving Correctly a Work/Debt
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So what you are saying is that you do not believe the following verses:
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto...
Jhn 6:50
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Jhn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of...
[the bread... gives life; you are saying otherwise]
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto...
Jhn 6:50
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Jhn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of...
[the bread... gives life; you are saying otherwise]
No, I am not saying otherwise. I am saying that it is Christ who is the bread, so it is only by/in His indwelling that someone can receive life and nourishment - for it is impossible that a dead person can nourish himself. To receive spiritual life - to be born-again - is to be indwelt by Christ (which is the receiving the bread), by/from whom, we believe in Christ, and by believing, we eat of it - spiritually assimilate His gospel. Yet, it is all of/by God, none of it by us.
You are saying that for a dead person to be made alive he must first nourish himself. But it cannot be possible for someone who is dead to do so.
[Col 1:26-27 KJV]
26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[Jhn 6:39, 44-45 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Jhn 6:35 KJV]
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
[Jhn 6:47-48 KJV]
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
You are saying that for a dead person to be made alive he must first nourish himself. But it cannot be possible for someone who is dead to do so.
[Col 1:26-27 KJV]
26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[Jhn 6:39, 44-45 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
[Jhn 6:35 KJV]
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
[Jhn 6:47-48 KJV]
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
John 1 says,
Jhn 1:11
He came unto his own [the Jews/Israel], and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12
But as many as received [active] him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
["eat" the bread = "that a man may eat thereof, and not die" and "if any man eat of this bread, he shall live"]
Jhn 1:11
He came unto his own [the Jews/Israel], and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12
But as many as received [active] him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
["eat" the bread = "that a man may eat thereof, and not die" and "if any man eat of this bread, he shall live"]
This is the work of God, that YOU believe on him whom he hath sent
Yes, God gives the gift of faith - but YOU have to use it to get saved.
Yes, especially when one looks at one verse and ignores the rest of what the Lord says
NO, God's definition of being dead is to be spiritually dead as in being separated from Him.
Physical death is a by product of being separated from God.
Ever read Philippians 4:13 ???
Did you know the Lord' Spirit lives within true Christians and HE can do mighty things thru true Christians?
The false teaches say even after being born again and becoming a new creature in Christ we are still dirty sinners because they are speaking in behalf of the devil and don't know the Lord.
God works thru true Christians to work His will because the Holy Spirit .
He does not work thru those that are just religious that claim to know the Lord but don't.
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Only calvinists think God does everything when a person gets saved and then they claim in error that God does not want everyone to be saved and only selects a few to be saved and then in further error they think of those God selected to be saved they will still be saved even if they lived like the devil in a life of sin and debauchery.
That's what the Baloney Brothers teach!
That's what the Baloney Brothers teach!
People have disagreements about which books should be consider to be Scripture, such as why the Catholic Bible contains 73 books while the Protestant Bible contains 66 books, and with apocrypha that didn't make the cut. For example, there are standards like whether it was written by someone who was close to Jesus, whether it is in use and considered to be authoritative by the church, and whether it is in agreement with the OT, and whether what it teaches is orthodox. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so agreement with the OT is the standard by which we should accept whether something written in the NT is true. So the NT should not be interpreted as saying things that the Bereans would have outright rejected, such as in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law. So there is room for someone read a book, think that it is promoting rebellion against God, and come to the conclusion that they either must have misunderstood it or that they were wrong to consider it to be Scripture without rejecting all of the books of the Bible as Scripture.
I don't think that the book of Hebrews should be rejected as Scripture, but then again, I also don't interpret it as promoting rebellion against God. You should be quicker to think that you must have misunderstood Hebrews than to disregard it as Scripture, but if you insist that you have correctly understood it, then you should be quicker to think that you were wrong to consider to be Scripture than to disregard what God has commanded. The position that all of the books of the Bible are in harmony with each other is contrary to you interpreting Hebrews as speaking against following what is commanded in other books of the Bible and contrary to you interpreting Hebrews in a way that Deuteronomy 13 instructs us to reject.
Those verses should only be interpreted as referring to books that had been written at that time and not to any book that anyone in the future might consider to be Scripture. Furthermore, it says that he delighted in doing the Father's will and had the Mosaic Law on his heart, so your interpretation of Hebrews is also contrary to Psalms 40:6-8.
In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, it refers to sacred writings that Timothy had been acquainted with since childhood, which could only be referring to books of the OT because none of the books had been written at the time of Timothy's childhood. Moreover, everything that Paul described it as being profitable is in regard to our code of conduct, and the code of conduct in the OT is the Mosaic Law, which is why you are interpreting Hebrews as speaking against being profitable for those things.
In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable have twisted to their own destructions, and warns against being carried away by the error of lawless men, so we can be confident that when Paul is correctly understood that he was not speaking against obeying the Mosaic Law. Furthermore, 1 Peter 3:18 encourages to us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to do that in accordance with Psalms 119:29, where he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and Matthew 7:23, where Jesus said that that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.
I don't think that the book of Hebrews should be rejected as Scripture, but then again, I also don't interpret it as promoting rebellion against God. You should be quicker to think that you must have misunderstood Hebrews than to disregard it as Scripture, but if you insist that you have correctly understood it, then you should be quicker to think that you were wrong to consider to be Scripture than to disregard what God has commanded. The position that all of the books of the Bible are in harmony with each other is contrary to you interpreting Hebrews as speaking against following what is commanded in other books of the Bible and contrary to you interpreting Hebrews in a way that Deuteronomy 13 instructs us to reject.
Those verses should only be interpreted as referring to books that had been written at that time and not to any book that anyone in the future might consider to be Scripture. Furthermore, it says that he delighted in doing the Father's will and had the Mosaic Law on his heart, so your interpretation of Hebrews is also contrary to Psalms 40:6-8.
In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, it refers to sacred writings that Timothy had been acquainted with since childhood, which could only be referring to books of the OT because none of the books had been written at the time of Timothy's childhood. Moreover, everything that Paul described it as being profitable is in regard to our code of conduct, and the code of conduct in the OT is the Mosaic Law, which is why you are interpreting Hebrews as speaking against being profitable for those things.
In 2 Peter 3:15-17, it says that Paul is difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable have twisted to their own destructions, and warns against being carried away by the error of lawless men, so we can be confident that when Paul is correctly understood that he was not speaking against obeying the Mosaic Law. Furthermore, 1 Peter 3:18 encourages to us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to do that in accordance with Psalms 119:29, where he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and Matthew 7:23, where Jesus said that that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.
It doesn't "promote rebellion" at all. Your misunderstanding of the gospel is what makes it seem that way. Instead, Hebrews explains
God's salvation - that God's purposed the Mosaic Law solely to illustrate and symbolize that which was always intended by God to be completed in and by Christ and not as an end in itself. The Mosaic Law was earthly, carnal, and temporal with its instruments also being earthly, carnal, and temporal. However, that which it mimicked - the true and eternal - is in the heavens, not the in the earth. The earthly could never be eternal because it was constructed and purified by man not God, but the heavenly is eternal because it was constructed and purified by God, not man.
[Exo 25:9 KJV]
9 According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].
[Exo 25:40 KJV]
40 And look that thou make [them] after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.
[Heb 9:23-24 KJV]
23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
God's salvation - that God's purposed the Mosaic Law solely to illustrate and symbolize that which was always intended by God to be completed in and by Christ and not as an end in itself. The Mosaic Law was earthly, carnal, and temporal with its instruments also being earthly, carnal, and temporal. However, that which it mimicked - the true and eternal - is in the heavens, not the in the earth. The earthly could never be eternal because it was constructed and purified by man not God, but the heavenly is eternal because it was constructed and purified by God, not man.
[Exo 25:9 KJV]
9 According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].
[Exo 25:40 KJV]
40 And look that thou make [them] after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.
[Heb 9:23-24 KJV]
23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
No. Paul was speaking not only against the works of the Mosaic Law but the works of any law that require works for salvation. And as I stated and posted before, the keeping of the Mosaic Law cannot possibly save because sin entered-in BEFORE the Mosaic Law was given. The law of sin and death is that which came out of Adam's transgression. It is also known as the law of works and is embedded within any law that demands our work - yet the following of which actually leads to the second death, not salvation, but which, you insist that we should follow it. That is Satan's law, not God's law. God's law - the law unto eternal life - is anchored solely in His mercy and grace through Christ Jesus and cannot be acquired by any of our works. All of our works are counted by God as filthy rags, and therefore, are unable to make us worthy of salvation.
If anyone thinks they can be justified before God by trying to keep the Mosaic Law, or any other law (for that matter), they remain under God's wrath, not under His grace, and therefore they are in a lot of extremely serious trouble, indeed.
[Isa 64:6 KJV]
6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[Rom 5:19 KJV]
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
If anyone thinks they can be justified before God by trying to keep the Mosaic Law, or any other law (for that matter), they remain under God's wrath, not under His grace, and therefore they are in a lot of extremely serious trouble, indeed.
[Isa 64:6 KJV]
6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[Rom 5:19 KJV]
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work "followed" as a result or consequence "of" their faith. So, work "of" faith does not equate to work "is" faith. There is a distinction between faith “and” works that “follow” as a result of faith.
In John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.
I don't think we should put emphasis on parts of scripture that differentiate it from what it already says.
John 6:28-29 (KJV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
From what Jesus said here without doing further reading it's not clear to me that believing in Jesus is even something we have to work towards, but simply the work of God. I suppose it might take someone a long time before they believe in him though.
John 6:28-29 (KJV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
From what Jesus said here without doing further reading it's not clear to me that believing in Jesus is even something we have to work towards, but simply the work of God. I suppose it might take someone a long time before they believe in him though.
Rev 22:12, has reference to the wicked, those who will taste off the second death, and will be judged out of the other books, not the book of life. God's children are judged as they sojourn here in this world by God's chastening. they will not be judged at the last day, but will be told to come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:33-34) (Eph 1:4)