Is believing in the Trinity necessary for salvation? (POLL!)
- Thread starter Hevosmies
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I know it says at Revelation 1:5, "and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead etc. Jesus Christ is the first-born from the dead who did not die again like Nicodemus for example. Or to put it another way Jesus Christ was the first-born from the dead in a PERMANENT way thereby defeating death.
Now, I know your name is revelationman but why are you so focused on the Book of Revelation? Is your post in reference to the last days and prophecy of what is going to happen? Just asking. Btw, can you please tell me who told you about the angel of the Lord? Or better yet which verses are you referring to as the angel of the Lord? Is it Revelation?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now, I know your name is revelationman but why are you so focused on the Book of Revelation? Is your post in reference to the last days and prophecy of what is going to happen? Just asking. Btw, can you please tell me who told you about the angel of the Lord? Or better yet which verses are you referring to as the angel of the Lord? Is it Revelation?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Maybe the following article will clear things up a little bit. https://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-working-out-their-salvation/
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
That is because if you believe in spiritual things, you have already been born again of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The natural man, before he is born of the Holy Spirit cannot discern spiritual things 1 Cor 2:14. Believing in spiritual things is a product of being already born of the Holy Spirit, not the cause of being born again.
I can help with that.
Yeshua ben Yahweh, His Full name
Yeshua ben Yahweh, His Full name
I sometimes say Yeshua, sometimes Jesus, and in my native language it's a completely different transliteration.
I just don't like when people get legalistic about names, like it's some invocation spell. God uses plenty of names for Himself in the Bible.
This question can't be answered. We are enabled to fully know the Nature of God. We are limited. How can God be three yet one we can not comprehend. Yet Pride thinks it can. We have enough for righteous living and appropriate worship. created does not dictate the Creator. Jesus is the only way the only life and the only truth. If you don't have him and you agree with or not the Trinity you are not saved. God is not in awe of your intellectual knowledge.
Aint that something that ALL Bible based groups even the heretical ones agree: FATHER is God.
The "debate comes from the SON mostly. You got three "views" I have found:
-Jesus is God (The orthodox version, believed by MOST churches PROTESTANT and CATHOLIC)
-Jesus is the son of God, first born and first created being (the JW version, also some think He is Michael the archangel)
-Jesus is the son of God, fully human and came into being in Bethlehem (Unitarian view, very few hold to this one and they got some explaining to do TO ME as to HOW is not praying to and worshiping a glorified human NOT idolatry?)
Within the Jesus is God camp you got one REALLY dumb belief which is: the ONENESS people who say Jesus IS the Father, which thats probably the most ridicilous view possible, I mean, to say the Son is the same person as the Father is just SOMETHING ELSE! Where do people come up with this stuff?
I personally believe that Jesus is God (John 1:1) who became flesh (John 1:14). I do try my best to avoid "THE GODMAN" and "God the Son" terms because they are not biblical and the GODMAN sounds like a batman villain! I do understand what people mean, they mean Jesus is human and divine. I GOTCHA.
What makes it all so tricky is that while the OT CLEARLY links all these LORD texts to Jesus, at th same time the New Testament has Jesus saying things like "I go to MY GOD" and quotes the Shema, without mentioning anything to the Jew He is discussing with about no trinity! And thats where the problem comes in: Because the Bible never ever teaches on the trinity, or speaks about it, we are left to DEDUCE and ADD two and two together. One thing Bible DOES talk about is MONOTHEISM, there is only ONE GOD. But then we got John 1:1 that COMPLETELY contradicts it, right on its face, you got a second God hanging out there thats called Word, WHATS GOING ON HERE!? And thats where the NECESSITY of the trinity comes in. You need to reconcile Son being deity and Father being deity while maintaining ONE GOD. Thats how I believe the teaching came about.
Not gonna lie I wish it was as simple today as it was in OT times, one God, LORD, thats it, nothing complicated and no need to talk about "mysteries" or "well God is so vast we cant really figure it out" well in the OT they could! IT was this one God the God of Israel no persons no forms no modes just one God.
I get mad trying to figure it out BECAUSE: One of the most COMMMON questions i get from unbelievers is the TRINITY, they always ask about it, muslims especially
The "debate comes from the SON mostly. You got three "views" I have found:
-Jesus is God (The orthodox version, believed by MOST churches PROTESTANT and CATHOLIC)
-Jesus is the son of God, first born and first created being (the JW version, also some think He is Michael the archangel)
-Jesus is the son of God, fully human and came into being in Bethlehem (Unitarian view, very few hold to this one and they got some explaining to do TO ME as to HOW is not praying to and worshiping a glorified human NOT idolatry?)
Within the Jesus is God camp you got one REALLY dumb belief which is: the ONENESS people who say Jesus IS the Father, which thats probably the most ridicilous view possible, I mean, to say the Son is the same person as the Father is just SOMETHING ELSE! Where do people come up with this stuff?
I personally believe that Jesus is God (John 1:1) who became flesh (John 1:14). I do try my best to avoid "THE GODMAN" and "God the Son" terms because they are not biblical and the GODMAN sounds like a batman villain! I do understand what people mean, they mean Jesus is human and divine. I GOTCHA.
What makes it all so tricky is that while the OT CLEARLY links all these LORD texts to Jesus, at th same time the New Testament has Jesus saying things like "I go to MY GOD" and quotes the Shema, without mentioning anything to the Jew He is discussing with about no trinity! And thats where the problem comes in: Because the Bible never ever teaches on the trinity, or speaks about it, we are left to DEDUCE and ADD two and two together. One thing Bible DOES talk about is MONOTHEISM, there is only ONE GOD. But then we got John 1:1 that COMPLETELY contradicts it, right on its face, you got a second God hanging out there thats called Word, WHATS GOING ON HERE!? And thats where the NECESSITY of the trinity comes in. You need to reconcile Son being deity and Father being deity while maintaining ONE GOD. Thats how I believe the teaching came about.
Not gonna lie I wish it was as simple today as it was in OT times, one God, LORD, thats it, nothing complicated and no need to talk about "mysteries" or "well God is so vast we cant really figure it out" well in the OT they could! IT was this one God the God of Israel no persons no forms no modes just one God.
I get mad trying to figure it out BECAUSE: One of the most COMMMON questions i get from unbelievers is the TRINITY, they always ask about it, muslims especially