Is believing in the Trinity necessary for salvation? (POLL!)

[RevelationMan]

this seems odd and heretical never heard of this.

From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. - Rev 4:5

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I think he's likely referring to the phrase "the seven Spirits of God" as found in Revelation 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 (which some suggest refers back to Isaiah 11:2).


[oops, I see he beat me to it, lol]

 

[crossnote]

Indirectly, ...yes.
To deny the Trinity is equivalent to denying the plain revelation of Scripture.
It would be most difficult to be saved by denying the Scriptures as God's Word.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Eziekiel 8 clearly teaches what unholy things people did 2500 years ago. When the temple was destroyed and Nebuchadnezzar II ruled, or more specific what happend after that.
People have become so polluted by the baylonian captivity so they were crying for Tammuz on the streets!

If you dont know who Tammuz is here is a video who explains it.

"He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD’S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women WEEPING FOR TAMMUZ."
Eziekiel 8:13-14

They did even greater abominations, with their faces toward the east they worshipped the sun (Nimrod). Today that worship it's repackaged and goes under the name Islam.

"Between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they WORSHIPPES THE SUN TOWARD THE EAST."
Ezikekiel 8:16

The next thing that happend is that Ezikekiel mark everyone in the FORHEAD who dosent take part of all abominations, and when they march out of the city they slay everyone who havent recived the mark in their forheads.

"{9:4} And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, AND SET A MARK UPON THE FORHEAD OF THE MEN THAT SIGH AND CRY FOR ALL THE ABOMINATIONS that be done in the midst thereof.
And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: SLAY UTTERLY OLD AND YOUNG, both maids, and little children, and women: BUT COME NOT NEAR ANY MAN UPON WHOM IS THE MARK; AND BEGIN AT MY SANCTUARY. "
Ezekiel 9:4-6


"And because of all this we make a SURE COVERNANT, and write it; and our princes, Levites, and priests, SEAL unto it."
Nehemiah 10:38

Nehemiah 11:1-29
"NOW THOSE THAT WAS SEALED WERE, Nehemiah, the Tirshatha, the son of Hachaliah, and Zidkijah, etc etc. And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinim, AND ALL THAY THAT HAD SEPERATED THEMSELFS FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE LANDS UNTO THE LAW OF GOD, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding; they clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God’s law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to OBSERVE and do all THE COMMANDMENTS of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;"

Jeremiah co existed with Ezekiel and Nehemia and he wrote this.

"And thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a WHORE’S FOREHEAD, thou refusedst to be ashamed. "
Jeremiah 3:2-3

A whore’s forehead? Babylon is the whore and ppl hade become Babylon and worshiped the gods from Babylon and was not ashamed by it. Only those who followed Yahooahs law the ten commandments was sealed in their forheads with hes name and was saved.

This story feels familiar. And it does so because it is also included in the New Testament

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"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, HAVING THE SEAL OF THE LIVING GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, HURTNOT THE EARTH, NEITHER THE SEA, NOR THE TREES TILL WE HAVE SEALED THE SEARVANTS OF OUR GOD IN THEIR FORHEADS."
Revelation 7:2-3
"And it was commanded them that they should NOT HURT the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but ONLY those men which have NOT THE SEAL OF GOD in their FOREHEADS"
Revelation 9:4

The angels are not alowed to hurt anything on earth until the servents of Yahooah are sealed in their forheads.And after that they are comanded to only hurt those how dont have the seal of Yahooah.

So what is the seal of Yahooah? If you look at the story from the old testament, is only those how keep the ten commandments and abstain from Babylonian fornications how are sealed.

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD"
Revelation 14:11-12

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, HAVING HES FATHERS NAME WRITTEN IN THEIR FOREHEADS."
Revelation 14:1

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; AND HES NAME SHALL BE IN THEIR FORHEADS.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."
Revelation 22:3-5

Onlt those who keep the ten commandments are saved, and when you do keep them you get a spiritual seal with hes name in you forhead.

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"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her FOREHEAD was A NAME IS WRITTEN, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Revelation 17:3-5

"And there followed another angel, saying, BABYLON IS FALLEN, is fallen, THAT GREAT CITY BECAUSE SHE MADE ALL NATIONS DRING OF THE WINE OF THE WRATH OF HEAR FORNICATION.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his FORHEAD, OR IN HIS HAND.
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God"
Revelation 14:8-10

Today we parallel the story from the old testament, almost everyone have forsaken the ten commandments, and are following the traditions of men and are by that partakes of Babylon. And when we do a spiritual name is written in our forheads and that name is BABYLON!

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that NO MAN MIGHT BUY AND SELL, SAVE HE THAT HAD THE MARK, OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, OR THE NUMBER OF HES NAME. Here is WISDOM. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
Revelation 13:16-18

Wisdom is knowledge of the scripture and without it you cant find what the mark is.
Back then when you keep the sabbath you dident work and you also dident buy or sell anything you dident even carry money around on the sabbath day. If you keep the ten commandments you also keep the sabbath and if you do you dont buy and sell on Yahooahs holy days. Thats why the sabbath commandments is the only commandment begin with REMEMBER the sabbath day to keep it holy, he know that we would forget it.

This guy is getting his understanding of Christianity from Alexander Hislop's book Two Babylons.

Dozens of cults basically derive their teachings from the same source, whether Black Hebrew Israelite, Jehovah's Witnesses, Armstrongites, etcetera.

The claim is that the Roman Catholic Church is nothing more than the Babylonian Mystery Religion, and that Protestants are nothing more than slightly refined Roman Catholics.

From that point, they go on to reject the Trinity and core Christian teachings.

A lot of them are Sabbath and festival observers, and some reject the deity of Jesus Christ.

I used to be caught up in these nutty teachings myself. Then, I actually studied the doctrine of the Trinity and realized that it is true.

By the way, Christians are monotheists and believe there is one God yet three Persons. God is a multi-personal being. Paganism teaches polytheism generally. So, the claims of folks like this are simply ridiculous.

I have studied their persuasional techniques, and it is plain to see that they are basically doing the will of Satan and employing deceptive logic in order to make their claims. The particular cultist may not understand what he is doing, but he is following a deception technique that was developed by the founder of his cult.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Irrelevant:

Historically there is no such thing as a "pagan trinity",
and this post of your does nothing to prove it in the slightest.


All Christians, and all Jews, know that ancient Israel fell into idolatry for a time, and they were punished for it by God.

This has NOTHING to do with this thread about the Trinity.


The verses you posted do not prove, or even allude to, your assertion of a "pagan trinity."

There was never a "pagan trinity"; it never existed historically - it was invented in the 1850's by Alexander Hislop.


I'll repost my previous post on this, which you seemed to miss.



===========================

cc4,

Your profile says you are NOT a Christian,.
We should expect you to favor theories that support a non-christian position... even if those theories are provably false.


The so-called "pagan trinity":


1. The "pagan trinity" of Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz never existed historically, and there is absolutely no proof of it.

2. This "pagan trinity" was never heard of until Alexander Hislop simply asserted it, out of thin air, in his book in the 1850's.

3. Hislop created this theory by simply fabricating connections out of thin air, and stitching nonsense together... much in the way Dan Brown wrote the Da Vinci Code - he just sat down with some poor historical literature, arbitrarily selected a few odd bits and pieces, and used his vivid imagination to connect it all together into a wild story.

4. It IS possible to sit down and go over each of Hislop's errors, and prove they are fabricated and unfactual. This takes a bit of time, but the information is readily available.

5. Furthermore, modern archaeology has PROVEN, beyond any doubt, that this whole theory couldn't possibly be true.
In the historical cuneiform records of the kings of Assyria (which could not be read in Hyslop's time) both Semiramis and Ninus (presumed erroneously by Hislop to be Nimrod) FAIL TO APPEAR. Semiramis and Ninus, the foundation stones of Hislop's theory, DO NOT APPEAR in the historical lists of Assyrian kings... they aren't there. They aren't real. They didn't exist!

Hyslop's theory of the "pagan trinity" was based on characters that NEVER EXISTED!

Semiramis and Ninus also fail to appear in any other ancient cuneiform writings, or in any Mesopotamian literature. They just aren't there. Hislop relied solely on much later sources, which are full of errors, and which actually contradict the authentic primary sources we can now decipher. Hislop used these late sources, which were wrong and full of errors, to just haphazardly "connect dots" and conjecture his way to wild conspiracy theories.

Hislop was so sloppy that he didn't even stick faithfully to those later sources which were full of errors... he actually pieced THOSE together in ridiculous ways, making wild conjectures. So at the last, Hyslop's work was nothing but wild conjectures based on bad data... conjectures on top of conjectures.


Atheists take this nonsense, that has been thoroughly debunked, and they just repeat it over and over.
Why?
Because it supports their cause.

.

I wish I'd read this before formulating my response. You are dead on.

I used to be part of a group that taught some of the same garbage.

I will add that Ralph Woodrow used to teach this Babylonian Mystery Religion stuff based on Hislop's Two Babylons, but he recanted after learning that Hislop was a dolt. He published a second booklet that refutes his former belief system in this manner.

You know, Hislop was actually a Christian but he despised the Roman Catholic Church. He didn't realize that his poorly informed rhetoric would be used against Protestantism as well.

Here's a link to the booklet Woodrow authored to correct the record:

http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/assets/books/babylon.html

I would add Armstrongites, Hebrew Roots Movement, and Black Hebrew Israelites to your list of people using Hislop's materials.


Armstrongites have several "denominations" including United Church of God, Restored Church of God, and Living Church of God. They will be broadcasting podcast episodes in the months leading up to Christmas and Easter promoting these goofy teachings, as they do every year.