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Mar 28, 2016
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My claim is different because Catholics are Catholics, they aren't Christians. They are not the same. I don't confess to a priest, I don't go by what the pope says. Muslims follow the Koran and do what it says.

Yes, another written authority other than the Bible alone. All the pagan religions of the world have another written source that makes the Bible without effect. They went out from us because they were not of the us. . . . that the Bible describes as new creatures.

Sola scriptura is the reforming authority in any generation. Catholics like the Muslims have another authority (a law of the fathers) as mere commandment of men other than all things written in the law and prophets. The last new prophet was John .

Without their own written law it they would have no followers .catholic have there CCC m Muslim the Quran .Same MO different fleshly fathers.

Catechism of The Catholic Church verse #80 (Thus sayeth the fathers)
www.ucatholic.com/catechism/80-2
80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."
 
Mar 28, 2016
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That's exactly what the Muslims say about alleged terrorists being Muslims. "Real Muslims wouldn't have done that". How is your claim any different to theirs?

Real Muslims that follow the Quran or real Muslims that follow the scriptures? Can't serve two masters. Which one?
 
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Fighting Islam is not about its theology but how they live.
Their idiology is an allegiance to a belief system about the concept of truth.
Dealing with people who think like this, there is little point arguing logically, but
rather at a pure life level.
They live according to their theology or lack of it. We bring the gospel the new tongue believer speak.

As Christians we do not wrestle against flesh and blood. As Muslims that have no faith that comes from hearing God. They must wrestle against flesh and blood. The things seen the temporal .To include some dirt in a place called Jerusalem looking to the temporal rather than the eternal land

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which "are seen" are temporal; but the things which "are not seen" are eternal.
 
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Amen no man can serve two masters as teaching authorities.
Jesus actually used that phrase to explain that one couldn't serve God and Mammon (money). Whilst it is true that one could not follow both the Quran and Holy Scripture, I'm not aware of why anyone would even try.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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And you are doing exactly the same. You are focusing on the so-called shortcomings of the Islamic lifestyle (e.g. alleged lack of freedom of women), but ignoring the shortcomings of the Western lifestyle (e.g. massive divorce rate and children without parents because of this same so-called freedom). The gospel message isn't about which lifestyle is better. It is that we are all sinners, on the wide road to Hell, unless we accept Jesus' sacrifice of His own perfect blood for us. And we are all sinners - whether it's that we beat our wife, or that we divorced our husband, or that we were committed unholy jihad against our neighbour - we are all in need of Christ for forgiveness. Its absolutely unhelpful trying to argue the higher moral ground of the Western lifestyle, when in the view of most fair-minded people, the Muslim culture has the higher moral ground (so far as works go).

1. Not alleged, Muslim majority countries are known for this. Do you ever look outside your own small world?! Ever hear of honor killings? Well known around the world how abusive and horrifically these women are treated under Islam. Course it doesn't matter to you, you're not a wom



2, Not arguing the higher moral ground of Western lifestyle. We're talking about the Christian lifestyle and calling out a false religion. A violent false religion and a dangerous one.

3. Fair minded, maybe in your view. But to anyone with an ounce of common sense and knowing the history of Islam your statement on their moral code is ludicrous. Utterly false.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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Oh please. And how often is MGM promoted in the US and many Western countries, and its even legalised and recommended by doctors. Even if Muslims do practice FGM (which most don't), at least this is giving equal rights to men and women, and practicing MGM and FGM equally. The hypocritical West (at least the US) prohibits it for females, but allows it for males.
You talk about divorce as if it is a right, rather than an evil to be avoided at all costs.


Bolded part is an outright lie.

In a 2013 UNICEF report covering 29 countries in Africa and the Middle East, Egypt had the region's highest total number of women that have undergone FGM (27.2 million), while Somalia had the highest percentage (prevalence) of FGM (98%)


As a result of immigration, FGM has also spread to Europe, Australia, and the United States, with some families having their daughters undergo the procedure while on vacation overseas. As Western governments become more aware of FGM, legislation has come into effect in many countries to make the practice a criminal offense. In 2006, Khalid Adem became the first man in the United States to be prosecuted for mutilating his daughter.

The United Nations has called for elimination of the practice by 2030.



More abuse and suicides in the West, because in Islam, the family is important. (In true Christian societies, this is likewise true, but there are not many truly Christian societies left in the West). I don't think child marriages are prohibited by scripture.

The woman is not. She has no rights. Yes, they married younger in the OT but not before puberty. Nor were they forced to marry a man much older than themselves who regularly abuse them as is the case in Islam with Sharia Law. All kinds of testimony to this from woman coming out of that hell.



Christians risk their lives speaking in the West. Their jobs and money are stolen for quoting scripture. Western culture is just as bad as Islamic culture, in this respect.

Stats, not opinions, would be great.



But at least in Islamic culture, the punishment is generally for doing evil, not for doing right (e.g. quoting scripture)
No culture is perfect, but I don't believe they have the same rape, unfaithfulness, divorce problems that we have in the West. This seems like a small price to pay to do away with these evils.

A woman would be killed in an Islamic country if she tried to divorce. Nearly impossible under Sharia Law. So she must live with the abuse. Will speak on the rape issue in next post.


I'm certainly not a pro-muslim propagandist.

Could have fooled us


But the value of Christianity is *not* the Western lifestyle. The Western lifestyle is depraved. The value of Christianity is salvation through Christ, and this is what should be focused on when discoursing with Muslims, not the illusory greatness of the West.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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No culture is perfect, but I don't believe they have the same rape, unfaithfulness, divorce problems that we have in the West


Denmark, "Crime rates broken down by nationality in Denmark show that individuals from Muslim countries make up eight of the top nine places on the list.In addition, 2012 figures show that Somalis were sentenced for crimes, including innumerable sexual assaults, almost ten times more often than those with Danish citizenship. Indeed, more than half of all convicted rapists in Denmark have an immigrant background, according to official statistics, despite the fact that immigrants and their descendants account for less than 10 percent of the population.

Norway, "Something else that Muslim immigration appears to have brought to Norway is what some here call "a rape epidemic.Recent police statistics showed that in the capital city of Oslo, 100 percent of assault rapes between strangers were committed by immigrant, non-Western males. And nine out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women...And Spitznogle [Kristin Spitznogle is a therapist who has counseled some of the rape victims] has been attacked in the Norwegian media for saying what many will not: that the assault rape problem is primarily Muslim men raping non-Muslim women. And any woman who does not dress modestly and wear the Muslim headscarf could be considered by some Muslim men to be "fair game."

Sweden, "Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000 is six times higher than the United States. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women will be raped...Sweden has imported huge numbers of Muslim immigrants with catastrophic effect...Sweden's population grew from 9 million to 9.5 million in the years 2004-2012, mainly due to immigration from "countries like Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia".Muslims represented in as many as 77 percent of the rape cases and a major increase in rape cases paralleling a major increase in Muslim immigration, the wages of Muslim immigration are proving to be a sexual assault epidemic by a misogynistic ideology...In Stockholm this summer there was an average of 5 rapes a day.


United Kingdom, "In 2012, it emerged that over a thousand mostly white young girls in the northern England town of Rotherham were systematically groomed, trafficked, beaten and sexually abused by rape gangs consisting of mainly Pakistani Muslim men. A report released earlier this month confirmed that the local Labour government council and the police covered up this horror because they were afraid of being characterized as racist or politically incorrect."


So much for superior morals.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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Unfortunately, I think it is you who need to see the medical facts. FGM is the removal of the clitoral hood from the clitoris. MGM is the removal of the foreskin from the penis. Both folds of skin serve the same purpose. Both leave the boy or girl capable of sexual reproduction, but both have a high likelihood of doing damage to his or her future sexual pleasure, and that of his future wife, or her future husband. The mutilations are equivalent..
First there is more than one type of FGM. There are three forms of FGM: the partial or total removal of the clitoris; the partial or total removal of the clitoris and labia minora; the narrowing of the vaginal orifice...A hole remains the size of a match head for urination which commonly leads to pain and frequent infection.

In the 29 countries in Africa and the Middle East where FGM is widely performed, hygiene is poor. There is no anaesthetic and sterilised equipment is often replaced with rusting blades, which can lead to haemorrhaging, shock, septicaemia and tetanus. If the victim survives, she may be left infertile, or suffer complications during childbirth, cysts and recurrent urinary tract infections. FGM, which can include the narrowing of the vaginal opening, is proven to increase the probability of newborn death during childbirth.

Absolutely no comparison to circumcision. FGM is done entirely for the mans pleasure, no benefit whatsoever to the girl. Testimony of the agony and pain these women have suffered and continue to suffer is easily found. Lifelong suffering. There is a reason it is called mutilation.

Circumcision is done around the world for medical, religious and cultural reasons.

There are no medical reasons for FGM to be performed.


The arguments for practicing FGM are the same as MGM - her future husband will prefer it, it makes her body look better, it's cleaner, it's healthier, it's part of her religion, it would be weird not to have it done, all the other girls have it done etc. Both sets of arguments are false, but the arguments are the same. As for the Jews practicing circumcision, they changed the procedure from what Abraham did almost 2 millenia ago, so it is a mutilation now (ripping off the adhering skin, rather than simply trimming away the excess).

It compares in no way to FGM. Could care less if they get rid of it but do not compare it to mutilation of girls held down and forced into lifelong suffering for a mans pleasure.


It is cultural, the same as MGM is cultural.

It's child abuse,plain and simple.


That is why it is not practiced by all Muslims, and why even some Christians or non-religious folk have had their girls circumcised. Same as why MGM is now often rejected by Jews - who put their children above religion, but why it is practiced in other cultures whose religion doesn't require it.

Stats I posted shows where it is performed, Muslim countries.

The same statement applies to MGM. For some men, it seems to have little difference, or they may even be pleased it was done. For some, it is devastating, and their lives are ruined, or have committed suicide over it. Women who have undergone FGM are often the ones equating FGM to MGM.

No woman who's testimony I have seen compares the two. But if some do it has no bearing on the facts. I find no stats on suicide in this instance.

It seems you can't do this in Wetern countries now, either. But the fact remains that in Islamic countries, freedoms are more often constrained for the right reasons (to my understanding). The Muslims believe a lie, hence their prohibition on what they consider blasphemy. The Western nations have no gods but themselves, and so are happy to entertain most blasphemies (actual or alleged).

Merely your opinion.


Are you saying the internet doesn't exist in Islamic countries? It makes no sense to attribute the internet to the West's depravity. The internet was created due to man's creativity, not his depravity, so I don't understand how you believe this to be a Western benefit.

But the core issue is that they believe the truth to be a lie, not that they don't care what the truth is. It is more evil to know the truth and reject it, than to never have known it.[/QUOTE]



Unfortunately, I think it is you who need to see the medical facts. FGM is the removal of the clitoral hood from the clitoris. MGM is the removal of the foreskin from the penis. Both folds of skin serve the same purpose. Both leave the boy or girl capable of sexual reproduction, but both have a high likelihood of doing damage to his or her future sexual pleasure, and that of his future wife, or her future husband. The mutilations are equivalent.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Jesus actually used that phrase to explain that one couldn't serve God and Mammon (money). Whilst it is true that one could not follow both the Quran and Holy Scripture, I'm not aware of why anyone would even try.
Yes it is used that way but can apply to a teaching authority as masters .

The Quran uses scripture to draw men in "come together" and then like the Catholic CCC they make the scripture to no effect by the oral tradition of the false prophet Mohamed or the Catholic fathers and their false prophecy . Below is the MO for any pagan religion trying to get its foot in the door of the law of God the Bible.

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80 -
www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/80.htm
80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, "come together" in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful