Is Calvinism the truth?

[Hazelelponi]

God describes those under sin's curse in Romans 3:9-18 - read it, it's not a good look.

Loraine Boettner explained thusly:

This doctrine of total inability which declares that men are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1 etc) does not mean that all men are equally bad, nor that any man is as bad as he could be, nor that anyone is entirely destitute of virtue, nor that human nature is evil in itself, nor that man's spirit is inactive and much less does it mean that the body is dead.

What is does mean is that since the fall, man rests under the curse of sin, that he is actuated by wrong principles, and that he is wholly unable to love God, or to do anything meriting salvation. His corruption is extensive, but not necessarily intensive.

It is in this sense that man, since the fall, is utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, wholly inclined to all evil. He possesses a fixed bias of the will against God, and instinctively and willingly and turns to evil. He is an alien by birth, and a sinner by choice. The inability under which he labors is not an inability to exercise volition, but an inability to be willing to exercise holy volitions. And it is this phase of it which led Luther to declare that ‘free will’ is an empty term, whose reality is lost; and a lost liberty, according to my grammar, is no liberty at all.

- Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination

 

[FreeGrace2]

What is called Calvinism is just reformed theology. While Calvin is respected as a teacher in his time, his teachings aren't special, or even specific to the theology.

Even if everything taught or said by Calvin was wiped from historical record today what is known (rather mockingly I might add) as Calvinism would still exist as it is today because Calvin isn't where we get our beliefs from, it's beliefs based directly on Scripture which is also backed up by the Early Church Father's (otherwise known as ECF).

In short, reformed theology is Christianity. It's Lutheran, it's Presbyterian it's reformed Baptist - it's just our Christian faith.

Please read posts 67 and 68, where I address each of the 5 points of Calvinism, with Scripture. It took 2 posts because of the 1,000 word limit.

To learn more, the initiative must be your own. No one can spell it out in a few posts.

I study the Bible by using the Berean method. When I hear or read a claim or statement from someone, I replace the name "Paul" and put in that person's name, and then I search the Scriptures daily to see if what "that person" said is true.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God describes those under sin's curse in Romans 3:9-18 - read it, it's not a good look.

Loraine Boettner explained thusly:

This doctrine of total inability which declares that men are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1 etc) does not mean that all men are equally bad, nor that any man is as bad as he could be, nor that anyone is entirely destitute of virtue, nor that human nature is evil in itself, nor that man's spirit is inactive and much less does it mean that the body is dead.

What is does mean is that since the fall, man rests under the curse of sin, that he is actuated by wrong principles, and that he is wholly unable to love God, or to do anything meriting salvation. His corruption is extensive, but not necessarily intensive.

It is in this sense that man, since the fall, is utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, wholly inclined to all evil. He possesses a fixed bias of the will against God, and instinctively and willingly and turns to evil. He is an alien by birth, and a sinner by choice. The inability under which he labors is not an inability to exercise volition, but an inability to be willing to exercise holy volitions. And it is this phase of it which led Luther to declare that ‘free will’ is an empty term, whose reality is lost; and a lost liberty, according to my grammar, is no liberty at all.

- Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination

Read posts 67 and 68.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Acts 7.

Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw o the glory of God, and Jesus standing p at the right hand of God.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Thanks for your input.
One thing I can't get my head around is the Calvinists' idea of Compatiblist Freedom.
It instinctively seems to me that if God ultimately determines everything, including what we think, desire, etc., how do we have any freedom? Even if we desire certain things, we seemingly aren't ABLE to desire anything different!

God does not predestine his elect's every action. God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination, because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

This is why God choose a bigger portion of mankind to give to his Son, and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children, by paying for their sins on the cross, and securing them their eternal inheritance.

The inspired word of God is not written to the non-elect, informing them on how to get saved eternally, but is written, especially, to his elect as instructions on how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

None of his elect obey his instructions to a jot and tittle, only Christ could do that. When they do not obey him, he chastens them to bring them to repentance.

By their disobedience, they lose their fellowship with God, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin.

His elect are born into this world by natural birth as "dead in sins" as a result of Adam's sinfulness, but sometime during their lives, God quickens them to a new spiritual life, putting the Holy Spirit within them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

These people that were cut to the heart had not been born again, and given a new heart that can be pricked to feel guilty of breaking God's spiritual laws. The Jews, at Pentecost, is a good example of how the new spiritual heart of those who have been born again, responds. Peter preached the same sermon to these born again Jews, as Steven preached to those that had not been reborn, and still had the hard stony heart, that could not be pricked, and they gnashed on him with their teeth, while the born again Jews that were pricked to the heart, said, to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what must we do?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

These people that were cut to the heart had not been born again, and given a new heart that can be pricked to feel guilty of breaking God's spiritual laws. The Jews, at Pentecost, is a good example of how the new spiritual heart of those who have been born again, responds. Peter preached the same sermon to these born again Jews, as Steven preached to those that had not been reborn, and still had the hard stony heart, that could not be pricked, and they gnashed on him with their teeth, while the born again Jews that were pricked to the heart, said, to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what must we do?

but they were presented the Gospel and reacted. you and i reacted with hunger and submission. those in Verse 54 reacted in rebellion according to their denial of the Truth that Stephen presented.

 

[VCO]

HUSH, we do not want to get Calvinism vs Arminian ARGUING, started all over again. We middle of the road Evangelicals, BURIED that smelly corpse of the Calvinism vs Arminian AGRUING back in the 70s.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

God does not predestine his elect's every action. God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination, because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

This is why God choose a bigger portion of mankind to give to his Son, and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children, by paying for their sins on the cross, and securing them their eternal inheritance.

The inspired word of God is not written to the non-elect, informing them on how to get saved eternally, but is written, especially, to his elect as instructions on how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

None of his elect obey his instructions to a jot and tittle, only Christ could do that. When they do not obey him, he chastens them to bring them to repentance.

By their disobedience, they lose their fellowship with God, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin.

His elect are born into this world by natural birth as "dead in sins" as a result of Adam's sinfulness, but sometime during their lives, God quickens them to a new spiritual life, putting the Holy Spirit within them.

"God does not predestine his elect's every action."

HUSH, we do not want to get Calvinism vs Arminian ARGUING, started all over again. We middle of the road Evangelicals, BURIED that smelly corpse of the Calvinism vs Arminian AGRUING back in the 70s.

Whatever you think and whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue, the debate is alive and kicking. I don't know if you're familiar with James White.

 

[John146]

God does not predestine his elect's every action. God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination, because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

This is why God choose a bigger portion of mankind to give to his Son, and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children, by paying for their sins on the cross, and securing them their eternal inheritance.

The inspired word of God is not written to the non-elect, informing them on how to get saved eternally, but is written, especially, to his elect as instructions on how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

None of his elect obey his instructions to a jot and tittle, only Christ could do that. When they do not obey him, he chastens them to bring them to repentance.

By their disobedience, they lose their fellowship with God, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin.

His elect are born into this world by natural birth as "dead in sins" as a result of Adam's sinfulness, but sometime during their lives, God quickens them to a new spiritual life, putting the Holy Spirit within them.

The men mentioned here are not some elect group but simply men.

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[John146]

God does not predestine his elect's every action. God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination, because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

This is why God choose a bigger portion of mankind to give to his Son, and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children, by paying for their sins on the cross, and securing them their eternal inheritance.

The inspired word of God is not written to the non-elect, informing them on how to get saved eternally, but is written, especially, to his elect as instructions on how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

None of his elect obey his instructions to a jot and tittle, only Christ could do that. When they do not obey him, he chastens them to bring them to repentance.

By their disobedience, they lose their fellowship with God, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin.

His elect are born into this world by natural birth as "dead in sins" as a result of Adam's sinfulness, but sometime during their lives, God quickens them to a new spiritual life, putting the Holy Spirit within them.

If God chose you before the foundation of the world, there would never be a time when you were a child of wrath. (He’s a child of wrath, but not really. I already chose him.) There would never be a time where God doesn’t know you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God does not predestine his elect's every action.

I've asked you multiple times to quote any verse that clearly shows that election is to salvation.

God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination

This may be the greatest reason Calvinism is not biblical. The entire purpose of the gospel is so that men can choose to live with God forever or not.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

This proves that even the gospel is a free choice.

because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

Sure, do quote Rom 3:10, and IGNORE the context for that quote from the OT. So I will show the others who read this thread what that context actually is.

Rom 3-
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

This is a direct quote from Pst 14-
1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Psa 53;1-3 says the exact same thing.

So, whe Paul quoted these verses, they refer to atheists, which the Bible calls FOOLS. They don't seek God.

This is why God choose a bigger portion of mankind to give to his Son

And the Bible refutes this statement.

Matt 7-
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The inspired word of God is not written to the non-elect

Again, the Bible refutes your words.

John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

The words "that you may" is in the subjunctive mood in the Greek, meaning potential. In Calvinism's claims, there are no potentials.

 

[John146]

God allows all mankind to make their own choice on how they want to live their lives here on earth, but God does not allow mankind to choose his own eternal destination, because God, by his foreknowledge saw that none of mankind would seek him, no, not one.

Having your cake and eating it too...

 

[Snacks]

“For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” To me, this verse refutes calvinism.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matt 7-
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

All of the people who enter both gates are born again children of God. The wide gate are those children of God who have not been revealed the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross, and are teaching false doctrines.

Those who enter the straight gate are children of God who have been revealed the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross, and the life that the narrow way leads to is not eternal life, but that good and abundant life that God has offered to his obedient children as they live here in this world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Only his sheep can hear his voice and believe.(John 10).

 

[jaybo]

All of the people who enter both gates are born again children of God. The wide gate are those children of God who have not been revealed the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross, and are teaching false doctrines.

Those who enter the straight gate are children of God who have been revealed the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross, and the life that the narrow way leads to is not eternal life, but that good and abundant life that God has offered to his obedient children as they live here in this world.

That isn't the case. Jesus was talking to the Jews (and maybe some Gentiles); there were not yet any Christians. Your claim that the wide gate are those children of God who have not been revealed the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross, and are teaching false doctrines has no Scriptural basis.

 

[jaybo]

Only his sheep can hear his voice and believe.(John 10).

Again, this has no Scriptural basis. If only His sheep can hear His voice then nobody would ever be saved.

Matthew 10:16-18, " But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

But I ask, have they not heard? Yes, they have: Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."

(Bold font is from the OT, underline is my emphasis.)

Clearly one must first hear the Gospel and then believe.

 

[Evmur]

God wants willing Followers. until i wanted to be with Him, i was of no use to further His Kingdom.

I think Peter was better than me and he walked and talked with the Lord physically.
"I'll follow You Lord. if everyone else forsakes You I will never forsake you, I will die for You"

how did that work out?

"Peter son of Jonah agape Me?"
"You know I love You like a brother"
"Peter son of Jonah agape Me?"
"Peter son of Jonah do you even like Me?"

Poor old Peter, poor old US, us humans ... we ain't got it, we know we love Him but it's never good enough. We don't have the capacity.

Thank God since the Holy Spirit came He poured HIS love into our hearts.

 

[Evmur]

yes brother Paul’s saying you used to be a slave to sin , but Paul’s explaining now you are free but don’t use your freedom to serve sin , use your freedom to serve God

Paul’s always talking about the old man before Christ , and the new whos born again in Christ

one was a slave to sin the other knows the truth and is made free we have to let go of the slave and embrace the freedom and chi live man is made for Adam had freedom and choice also but Satan enslaved them in sin and death by corrupting thier mind and heart

Jesus and the gospel came to set us free of that slavery and dominion of Satan over man. Your speaking of the sinner he’s talking about the transformation of our Will that sets us free in the light

Consider these to passages from Jesus and paul his witness

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now paul speaking to those who heard it Notice how Informative it is if we can accept it I’m going to make bold all the instructions that are giving the believer a choice if they accept what’s there

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ( an informed choice presented )

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12-18, 20-22‬

we were made free by Jesus , given a choice by Jesus to repent , believe and be free and me to choose salvation rather than damnation. When we stand before the lord in judgement according to our deeds we’re not going to be able to say “ lord I was enslaved by satan I had no choice in the things I did wrong the devil made me do it “

Or even worse “ lord every sin I ever did was because you gave me no choice you made me do it “

we’re going to have to give our own account of what we’ve done because en we hear the truth that’s exactly wha ya giving us the choice to be saved or choose the world instead

as we hear more of the gospel it’s creating freedom from sins mastery over mankind it’s offering us the truth that can do this it’s actually why we preach and share the gospel

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

we don’t have to be slaves to sin anymore Jesus is offering us freedom and righteousness to follow after and let him redeem us

I totally agree with this, hundred %

... but folks is saying they were already free [will] bit of a slap in the face that.

if we had freewill there would be no need for the cross.