Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

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Aug 14, 2019
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We call to be Christ or to follow Christ?
That's not how I meant 'be' Christ. Yeeeeaaaah we re all called to to be God. That's it. I thought all humans empty themselves and put on divine nature. Everybody knows that right?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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That's not how I meant 'be' Christ. Yeeeeaaaah we re all called to to be God. That's it. I thought all humans empty themselves and put on divine nature. Everybody knows that right?
So you believe every catholic is God?
 

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
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I am not miss that post, but I don't believe It.
A Lot of what Alberto say was prove to be true.
Example sex party happen in vatican, he say in the '60 and to my recall his book Print in 1972

Read this link, this news paper was publish in April 2019. It was No body believe him.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...ed-clergy-undercover-in-the-vatican-1.7087409
Oh I believe there were sex parties at the Vatican historically. Ever hear of the Pornocracy? Even RCC's admit there have been some wicked men that were either the pope or around the pope. Rome used to have brothels just for priests in Luther's time. But Alberto never knew about anything like that in his day because he was never a priest. In fact he can't even get his story right about when exactly he was ordained! What we do have is a recorded interview with a former supervisor in the CRC. If what he said was false then Alberto could have sued him for defamation/slander. Want to know why that didn't happen? Because Alberto would have been subject to discovery like any other litigant and that would have exposed him.

 

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
207
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Ccc841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

You not aware Accusing catholic

Ccc 841 state muslim God is catholic God.
Muslim don't believe trinity At all but God that don't believe trinity is also catholic God.


The chapter Al-Ikhlas (The Unity) was revealed at Makkah. It is so named because the belief in the Unity of Allah has been purified of all kinds of shirk (polytheism) and a clear explanation of it has been given. In this chapter, too, a comprehensive elucidation of the Unity of Allah has also been provided.

Sudah all ikhlas 112

3. "He begets not, nor is He begotten.2
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Yes I am aware. And Rome is wrong on that point. And its points of doctrine like this that are far more dangerous that one of Alberto's fantasies.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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Oh I believe there were sex parties at the Vatican historically. Ever hear of the Pornocracy? Even RCC's admit there have been some wicked men that were either the pope or around the pope. Rome used to have brothels just for priests in Luther's time. But Alberto never knew about anything like that in his day because he was never a priest. In fact he can't even get his story right about when exactly he was ordained! What we do have is a recorded interview with a former supervisor in the CRC. If what he said was false then Alberto could have sued him for defamation/slander. Want to know why that didn't happen? Because Alberto would have been subject to discovery like any other litigant and that would have exposed him.

Do,you Know When Alberto rivera work at Texas?

The police don't have sufficient evidence.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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How do you know that the Gospel you believe is the Gospel handed down from Paul?
We have his witness working in our earthen bodies of death.. It witnesses to our new born again spirit Not the witness of men like Peter who committed blasphemy against the Son of man the apostle Jesus. (was forgivable until the Son of man disappeared out of sight. )

its the same Spirit that worked in Peter revealing who he was in Mathew 16 . Not of flesh and blood the witness of corrupted mankind.

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:9-10 King James Version (KJV) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him (not Peter) a liar; because he believeth not the record (sola scriptura) that God gave of his Son.

The witness of all things written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura the Sacred witness) Not the witness of the fathers as a law unto themselves as oral tradition of men. . . who must lord it over the faith of the non venerable pew sitters .

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God (not Peter) without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
 
Mar 28, 2016
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In case you missed it the first time.

Yep, another fraud. Here is a Cornerstone Magazine's expose:

https://web.archive.org/web/20051202084221/http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?228

And from Christianity Today,
NEWS

Jack Chick’s Anti-Catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud

A comic book produced by a fundamentalist publisher named Jack Chick is causing an uproar among Roman Catholics. It purports to be the true story of a Jesuit priest named Alberto Rivera, who was raised and trained in a Spanish Jesuit seminary, and whose job was to infiltrate and destroy Protestant churches. The comic book, titled Alberto, says the reason Protestant churches don’t speak out against Catholicism the way they should is that they are infiltrated by Jesuits.

The comic book has been so popular that Chick has published a sequel, Double Cross, which claims to be the true story of how the priest rescued his sister from a convent in England, where she was a nun, and where she was bleeding to death from flagellation and other mistreatment. The sequel also alleges that Kathryn Kuhlman was a secret agent of Rome and claims that Jim Jones, the leader of the Jonestown cult, was secretly a Jesuit.

Both magazines are saturated with anti-Catholic slurs and unsavory innuendo. The most astonishing charge is that the name of every Protestant is kept in a computer file in the Vatican, and that the Catholic church is preparing for a twentieth-century Inquisition.

The Catholic church is understandably upset. Its Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, based in Milwaukee, has asked the state attorney general’s office in California, where the magazines are published, to investigate Chick Publications for false advertising and consumer fraud. The attorney general’s office recently declined to do so.

Many Protestant bookstores carry small, comic-book-like Bible tracts published by Chick, as well as his earlier, full-size comics on Christian subjects. The Alberto magazine, however, has caused such a fuss that many bookstores have refused to sell it. To counteract that pressure. Chick published a special tract that he distributes free, in which he says Catholic propaganda teams pressure bookstore owners to remove Alberto, and that only a few “totally committed” gospel bookstores still dare to carry it.

A year ago, Alberto Rivera himself issued a sworn statement defending the allegations. He declared in part that, “Alberto is a true and actual account and I will face a court of law to prove the events actually took place.”

He may get his chance. This reporter’s investigation shows that not only was Rivera not a Jesuit priest, but also that he had two children during the time he claimed to be living a celibate life as a Jesuit. Neither, it seems, does he have a sister in England who was a nun. Rivera has been sought by police for writing bad checks in Hoboken, New Jersey, and for stealing a credit card in Florida. Those revelations taint the credibility of the fantastic stories Rivera tells in the comic books.

Alberto Rivera, also known as Alberto Romero, is a native of the Canary Islands. He has traveled widely and has been associated with numerous Christian organizations and churches, including several in California. He is being sued in a Los Angeles court at the present time by a man who said that Rivera, on behalf of the Hispanic Baptist Church which he started, borrowed $2,025 with which to invest in property, but never purchased the land. When the man asked for his money back, he received a receipt acknowledging his “contribution” of $2,025. . .



Metz, G., Clapp, R., Hopkins, J. M., Shuster, W. G., & Minnery, T. (1981). Jack Chick’s Anti-catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud. Christianity Today, 25(5), 354–356.

yes I am aware. Rome is correct in her confession of the Holy Trinity but wrong on her application. And I would add there are many a catholic that reject that teaching. There are whole bodies that reject modern Rome like the SSPX or the SSPV. The later I was a member of.
How many Catholics reject the teaching that a queen of heaven entity called Mary alone received the fullness of Christ grace as born again , and the rest receive a unknown remnant . And they must continue to work by suffering even after taking their last breath of oxygen for another unknow remnant of time .With no end to their faith in view . It would appear to be the lying wondering doctrine never coming to faith, Christ's in us. .


The Bible informs us their must be heresies as private interpretation or personal commentaries among the denominations. And informs us they are not judgeable save the one that do deny the fullness of Christ grace doing despite to the grace by which men are born again .

Why the queen of heaven alone?

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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113
H.G. Wells, noted historian, in his book, "Crux Ansata," states:
Page 105 - "Roman Catholicism is a broken and utterly desperate thing, capable only of malignant mischief in our awakening world."
Page 155 - "I think that it stands for everything most hostile to the mental emancipation and stimulation of mankind. It is the completest, most highly organized system of prejudices and antagonisms in existence. Everywhere in the world there are ignorance and prejudice, but the greatest complex of these, with the most extensive prestige and the most intimate entanglement with traditional institutions, is the Roman Catholic Church. It presents many faces towards the world, but everywhere it is systematic in its fight against freedom."

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=answer-to-critics-of-alberto-rivera-by-houston
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
We have his witness working in our earthen bodies of death.. It witnesses to our new born again spirit Not the witness of men like Peter who committed blasphemy against the Son of man the apostle Jesus. (was forgivable until the Son of man disappeared out of sight. )

its the same Spirit that worked in Peter revealing who he was in Mathew 16 . Not of flesh and blood the witness of corrupted mankind.

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:9-10 King James Version (KJV) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him (not Peter) a liar; because he believeth not the record (sola scriptura) that God gave of his Son.

The witness of all things written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura the Sacred witness) Not the witness of the fathers as a law unto themselves as oral tradition of men. . . who must lord it over the faith of the non venerable pew sitters .

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God (not Peter) without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Gnostics said the same thing. God is found internally. like them you say the visible witness established by Jesus among men and given his authority isn't necessary because the authority of God is found internally (sola Scriptura). in that way you deny the incarnational characteristic of the Body of Christ like the Gnostics.
 

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
207
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28
Northern Kentucky
How many Catholics reject the teaching that a queen of heaven entity called Mary alone received the fullness of Christ grace as born again , and the rest receive a unknown remnant . And they must continue to work by suffering even after taking their last breath of oxygen for another unknow remnant of time .With no end to their faith in view . It would appear to be the lying wondering doctrine never coming to faith, Christ's in us. .


The Bible informs us their must be heresies as private interpretation or personal commentaries among the denominations. And informs us they are not judgeable save the one that do deny the fullness of Christ grace doing despite to the grace by which men are born again .

Why the queen of heaven alone?

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
How is that relevant to the post?

You are critical of Rome for all the wrong reasons. It's not the Marian dogmas that are the problem, there are a symptom. The biggest issue with Rome is that she denies the sufficiency of scripture. While you deny what it says about Jesus.
 

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
207
86
28
Northern Kentucky
Do,you Know When Alberto rivera work at Texas?

The police don't have sufficient evidence.
Here's the entire article from Christianity Today:

NEWS

Jack Chick’s Anti-Catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud

A comic book produced by a fundamentalist publisher named Jack Chick is causing an uproar among Roman Catholics. It purports to be the true story of a Jesuit priest named Alberto Rivera, who was raised and trained in a Spanish Jesuit seminary, and whose job was to infiltrate and destroy Protestant churches. The comic book, titled Alberto, says the reason Protestant churches don’t speak out against Catholicism the way they should is that they are infiltrated by Jesuits.

The comic book has been so popular that Chick has published a sequel, Double Cross, which claims to be the true story of how the priest rescued his sister from a convent in England, where she was a nun, and where she was bleeding to death from flagellation and other mistreatment. The sequel also alleges that Kathryn Kuhlman was a secret agent of Rome and claims that Jim Jones, the leader of the Jonestown cult, was secretly a Jesuit.

Both magazines are saturated with anti-Catholic slurs and unsavory innuendo. The most astonishing charge is that the name of every Protestant is kept in a computer file in the Vatican, and that the Catholic church is preparing for a twentieth-century Inquisition.

The Catholic church is understandably upset. Its Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, based in Milwaukee, has asked the state attorney general’s office in California, where the magazines are published, to investigate Chick Publications for false advertising and consumer fraud. The attorney general’s office recently declined to do so.

Many Protestant bookstores carry small, comic-book-like Bible tracts published by Chick, as well as his earlier, full-size comics on Christian subjects. The Alberto magazine, however, has caused such a fuss that many bookstores have refused to sell it. To counteract that pressure. Chick published a special tract that he distributes free, in which he says Catholic propaganda teams pressure bookstore owners to remove Alberto, and that only a few “totally committed” gospel bookstores still dare to carry it.

A year ago, Alberto Rivera himself issued a sworn statement defending the allegations. He declared in part that, “Alberto is a true and actual account and I will face a court of law to prove the events actually took place.”

He may get his chance. This reporter’s investigation shows that not only was Rivera not a Jesuit priest, but also that he had two children during the time he claimed to be living a celibate life as a Jesuit. Neither, it seems, does he have a sister in England who was a nun. Rivera has been sought by police for writing bad checks in Hoboken, New Jersey, and for stealing a credit card in Florida. Those revelations taint the credibility of the fantastic stories Rivera tells in the comic books.

Alberto Rivera, also known as Alberto Romero, is a native of the Canary Islands. He has traveled widely and has been associated with numerous Christian organizations and churches, including several in California. He is being sued in a Los Angeles court at the present time by a man who said that Rivera, on behalf of the Hispanic Baptist Church which he started, borrowed $2,025 with which to invest in property, but never purchased the land. When the man asked for his money back, he received a receipt acknowledging his “contribution” of $2,025.

Just Who Is Jack Chick?

The small, comic-book-style Bible tracts published by Chick Publications are sold by the thousands in bookstores around the country, as are Chick’s larger, full-color comics that deal with decidedly unfunny topics. Among the subjects he targets are the occult, the theory of evolution, modern translations of the Bible, and all branches of Christianity except fundamentalism.

Jack Chick himself remains something of an enigma because he talks little with reporters. One reporter was able to reach him by telephone about the Alberto controversy: he stated he had never met a more godly man than Alberto Rivera. He said he knows Rivera’s story is true because he “prayed about it.” He also said he expects his own life to be ended by assassins.

His secretary recently discussed him briefly with a Los Angeles Times reporter. She described him as “mid-50ish” and a Baptist, and she said that Chick Publications is run for profit. According to the Times, he is a former illustrator for an aircraft company, and started drawing Bible illustrations years ago on his kitchen table.

The secretary said: “We have no ministers on our staff at all. We do have two who are research consultants.… He [Chick] is strictly an artist and publisher. He’s never been to a seminary or had Bible training, but he wanted to be a missionary years ago.” An official statement says that Jack Chick “experienced rebirth through Jesus Christ at age 24” and he developed “the ministry of Chick Publications as time passed.”

The Catholic church denies Rivera’s most important claim, that he was a priest. To substantiate the claim, the Alberto comic book carries a picture of an official-looking document from the Archbishopric of Madrid-Alcala in Spain, dated September 1967. It identifies Rivera as a priest and gives him permission to travel abroad in his ministry’. There is no other church documentation, such as an ordination certificate, shown in the book. An individual in California, who grew suspicious of Rivera in 1973, wrote to the archdiocese office in Madrid-Alcala to ask if Rivera were really a priest. The response was that no diocese in Spain had any record of Rivera as a priest. The archbishop’s office concluded that he was not a priest, and that the travel document, which was little more than a form letter, was “acquired by deceit and subterfuge” to enable Rivera to get a passport.

The sequel. Double Cross, devotes its first nine pages to a description of how Alberto flew to London and contacted an Anabaptist church, whose people helped him rescue his dying sister Maria from her convent. Actually, the person he contacted was not an Anabaptist, but Delmar Spurling of the Church of God of Prophecy. Spurling said in an interview that Rivera did not rescue his sister, because she wasn’t a nun but rather a maid working in a private London home.

Rivera claims to have numerous degrees, including a master’s in psychology and at least three doctorates, but he has provided documentation for none of them. He attended a seminary, the Seminario Biblico Latinoamericano in Costa Rica, with an acquaintance from his home town of Las Palmas, in the Canary Islands, but he did not graduate from the seminary.

The acquaintance, Plutarco Bonilla, a respected Christian leader in Latin America, said Rivera never finished high school and that he was in the seminary’s program for non-high school graduates. A letter from the school said he was expelled for “continual lying and defiance of seminary authority.” The known chronology of his life does not allow time for him to have achieved the academic status he claims. Kenneth Wishart, a California minister, once pressed Rivera about his degrees: Rivera said they came from a diploma mill in Colorado, but the place was not identified. Roland Rasmussen of the Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California, also asked Rivera to substantiate some of his claims by submitting to a lie detector test. Rivera agreed; three times appointments were made for him, but all three times he failed to appear.

Although Rivera claims to have been raised and trained in a Spanish Jesuit seminary, his home town friend. Bonilla, said Rivera was living at one point with a woman in Costa Rica named Carmen Lydia Torres. (Alberto says Rivera was sent to Costa Rica to destroy a seminary and that a woman named Carmen was with him, posing as his girlfriend. The seminary was not named.)

Rivera later stated on an employment form that he and Torres were married in 1963. Their son, Juan, was born in Hoboken, New Jersey, in 1964, while Rivera was working for the Christian Reformed Church there. Juan died in El Paso in July 1965, after his parents had fled New Jersey leaving numerous debts and a warrant for their arrest on bad check charges. The couple had two other children, Alberto and Luis Marx. The first two children were born during the time Alberto claimed to be a Jesuit priest in Spain.

In October 1967, Rivera went to work at the Church of God of Prophecy headquarters in Tennessee, and began collecting money for a college in Tarassa, Spain. When the Church of God of Prophecy wrote the college to ask if Rivera was authorized to receive donations for the college, it received a reply stating the college had given him a letter to collect funds only during the month of July. The college later discovered that while “he claimed to be a Catholic priest … he had never been one.” The college reported that he left debts he had acquired in the name of the parish of San Lorenzo, and that Spanish police were seeking him for “authentic swindles and cheats.” Finally, they said that no funds had ever reached the college from Rivera. In a letter to the U.S. Department of Justice, Charles Hawkins of the Church of God of Prophecy said Rivera’s bank had contacted them because he had written a check on a closed account.

. . .


Metz, G., Clapp, R., Hopkins, J. M., Shuster, W. G., & Minnery, T. (1981). Jack Chick’s Anti-catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud. Christianity Today, 25(5), 354–357.
 

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
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part 2

A Put-up-or-shut-up Call

Our Sunday Visitor, a Catholic national newspaper, is offering a $10,000 reward to anyone who can prove that certain specified charges made in Alberto are true. The editor of the paper, Richard McMunn, said Chick has dredged up anti-Catholic lies that have been around a long time.

“Significantly,” said McMunn, “his [Chick’s] market is not limited to America’s so-called Bible Belt, but from coast to coast people in all walks of life are flocking to Christian bookstores … to buy these pieces of trash. Even more amazing is the fact that many are indeed believing what they read.

… The sad thing is that Chick’s lies are so hard to refute. They are so huge and monstrous that Catholics can only respond that the charges are purely and simply false.”

In 1969, two arrest warrants were issued for him in Florida. One was for the theft of a BankAmericard: the criminal division of the Bank of America reports that he charged over two thousand dollars on the credit card. The second warrant was issued for unauthorized use of an automobile. Rivera abandoned the vehicle in Seattle, and went from there to southern California, where he started a number of organizations: the Agapesofia Oikoumene (described as a “liberation” center for priests, nuns. Jews, and Communists), the Catholic Apostolic Church, the Hispanic Baptist Church of Oxnard, and an organization called the Antichrist Information Center.

In the comic book, Alberto, Rivera said he finally came to the point where he no longer could do the work for which he had been trained by the Jesuits, and he publicly turned against the Catholic church. He was taken by church officials to a sanitarium in Barcelona used for “insane priests,” was put in a padded cell for days without food or water, and was given shock treatments. At that point, according to the comic book, he turned to Christ and became a genuine Christian. He was suddenly released from the sanitarium and left the Catholic church.

But his later accounts of his conversion are contradictory. While speaking at the Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California, Rivera pinpointed his conversion as March 20, 1967, after three months in the sanitarium, and said he immediately defected from the Catholic church. Five months later, however, he gave a newspaper interview in his home town of Las Palmas, in which he was still promoting Catholicism. He said in the interview that he was doing ecumenical work for the Catholic church in Tarrassa, Spain, during the previous six months, from February to August of 1967. According to Alberto, he was in the sanitarium during that time.

Rivera, who now lives in California, was asked for an interview to discuss the discrepancies in his tale, but he posed so many restrictions before he would agree, that a legitimate interview was not possible. He did say that any wrongdoings prior to his conversion to Christ in 1967 were done under the orders of the Catholic church, and that any wrongdoings since his conversion are fabrications by conspirators.

Gary Metz

Metz, G., Clapp, R., Hopkins, J. M., Shuster, W. G., & Minnery, T. (1981). Jack Chick’s Anti-catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud. Christianity Today, 25(5), 354–357.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Here's the entire article from Christianity Today:

NEWS

Jack Chick’s Anti-Catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud

A comic book produced by a fundamentalist publisher named Jack Chick is causing an uproar among Roman Catholics. It purports to be the true story of a Jesuit priest named Alberto Rivera, who was raised and trained in a Spanish Jesuit seminary, and whose job was to infiltrate and destroy Protestant churches. The comic book, titled Alberto, says the reason Protestant churches don’t speak out against Catholicism the way they should is that they are infiltrated by Jesuits.

The comic book has been so popular that Chick has published a sequel, Double Cross, which claims to be the true story of how the priest rescued his sister from a convent in England, where she was a nun, and where she was bleeding to death from flagellation and other mistreatment. The sequel also alleges that Kathryn Kuhlman was a secret agent of Rome and claims that Jim Jones, the leader of the Jonestown cult, was secretly a Jesuit.

Both magazines are saturated with anti-Catholic slurs and unsavory innuendo. The most astonishing charge is that the name of every Protestant is kept in a computer file in the Vatican, and that the Catholic church is preparing for a twentieth-century Inquisition.

The Catholic church is understandably upset. Its Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, based in Milwaukee, has asked the state attorney general’s office in California, where the magazines are published, to investigate Chick Publications for false advertising and consumer fraud. The attorney general’s office recently declined to do so.

Many Protestant bookstores carry small, comic-book-like Bible tracts published by Chick, as well as his earlier, full-size comics on Christian subjects. The Alberto magazine, however, has caused such a fuss that many bookstores have refused to sell it. To counteract that pressure. Chick published a special tract that he distributes free, in which he says Catholic propaganda teams pressure bookstore owners to remove Alberto, and that only a few “totally committed” gospel bookstores still dare to carry it.

A year ago, Alberto Rivera himself issued a sworn statement defending the allegations. He declared in part that, “Alberto is a true and actual account and I will face a court of law to prove the events actually took place.”

He may get his chance. This reporter’s investigation shows that not only was Rivera not a Jesuit priest, but also that he had two children during the time he claimed to be living a celibate life as a Jesuit. Neither, it seems, does he have a sister in England who was a nun. Rivera has been sought by police for writing bad checks in Hoboken, New Jersey, and for stealing a credit card in Florida. Those revelations taint the credibility of the fantastic stories Rivera tells in the comic books.

Alberto Rivera, also known as Alberto Romero, is a native of the Canary Islands. He has traveled widely and has been associated with numerous Christian organizations and churches, including several in California. He is being sued in a Los Angeles court at the present time by a man who said that Rivera, on behalf of the Hispanic Baptist Church which he started, borrowed $2,025 with which to invest in property, but never purchased the land. When the man asked for his money back, he received a receipt acknowledging his “contribution” of $2,025.

Just Who Is Jack Chick?

The small, comic-book-style Bible tracts published by Chick Publications are sold by the thousands in bookstores around the country, as are Chick’s larger, full-color comics that deal with decidedly unfunny topics. Among the subjects he targets are the occult, the theory of evolution, modern translations of the Bible, and all branches of Christianity except fundamentalism.

Jack Chick himself remains something of an enigma because he talks little with reporters. One reporter was able to reach him by telephone about the Alberto controversy: he stated he had never met a more godly man than Alberto Rivera. He said he knows Rivera’s story is true because he “prayed about it.” He also said he expects his own life to be ended by assassins.

His secretary recently discussed him briefly with a Los Angeles Times reporter. She described him as “mid-50ish” and a Baptist, and she said that Chick Publications is run for profit. According to the Times, he is a former illustrator for an aircraft company, and started drawing Bible illustrations years ago on his kitchen table.

The secretary said: “We have no ministers on our staff at all. We do have two who are research consultants.… He [Chick] is strictly an artist and publisher. He’s never been to a seminary or had Bible training, but he wanted to be a missionary years ago.” An official statement says that Jack Chick “experienced rebirth through Jesus Christ at age 24” and he developed “the ministry of Chick Publications as time passed.”

The Catholic church denies Rivera’s most important claim, that he was a priest. To substantiate the claim, the Alberto comic book carries a picture of an official-looking document from the Archbishopric of Madrid-Alcala in Spain, dated September 1967. It identifies Rivera as a priest and gives him permission to travel abroad in his ministry’. There is no other church documentation, such as an ordination certificate, shown in the book. An individual in California, who grew suspicious of Rivera in 1973, wrote to the archdiocese office in Madrid-Alcala to ask if Rivera were really a priest. The response was that no diocese in Spain had any record of Rivera as a priest. The archbishop’s office concluded that he was not a priest, and that the travel document, which was little more than a form letter, was “acquired by deceit and subterfuge” to enable Rivera to get a passport.

The sequel. Double Cross, devotes its first nine pages to a description of how Alberto flew to London and contacted an Anabaptist church, whose people helped him rescue his dying sister Maria from her convent. Actually, the person he contacted was not an Anabaptist, but Delmar Spurling of the Church of God of Prophecy. Spurling said in an interview that Rivera did not rescue his sister, because she wasn’t a nun but rather a maid working in a private London home.

Rivera claims to have numerous degrees, including a master’s in psychology and at least three doctorates, but he has provided documentation for none of them. He attended a seminary, the Seminario Biblico Latinoamericano in Costa Rica, with an acquaintance from his home town of Las Palmas, in the Canary Islands, but he did not graduate from the seminary.

The acquaintance, Plutarco Bonilla, a respected Christian leader in Latin America, said Rivera never finished high school and that he was in the seminary’s program for non-high school graduates. A letter from the school said he was expelled for “continual lying and defiance of seminary authority.” The known chronology of his life does not allow time for him to have achieved the academic status he claims. Kenneth Wishart, a California minister, once pressed Rivera about his degrees: Rivera said they came from a diploma mill in Colorado, but the place was not identified. Roland Rasmussen of the Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California, also asked Rivera to substantiate some of his claims by submitting to a lie detector test. Rivera agreed; three times appointments were made for him, but all three times he failed to appear.

Although Rivera claims to have been raised and trained in a Spanish Jesuit seminary, his home town friend. Bonilla, said Rivera was living at one point with a woman in Costa Rica named Carmen Lydia Torres. (Alberto says Rivera was sent to Costa Rica to destroy a seminary and that a woman named Carmen was with him, posing as his girlfriend. The seminary was not named.)

Rivera later stated on an employment form that he and Torres were married in 1963. Their son, Juan, was born in Hoboken, New Jersey, in 1964, while Rivera was working for the Christian Reformed Church there. Juan died in El Paso in July 1965, after his parents had fled New Jersey leaving numerous debts and a warrant for their arrest on bad check charges. The couple had two other children, Alberto and Luis Marx. The first two children were born during the time Alberto claimed to be a Jesuit priest in Spain.

In October 1967, Rivera went to work at the Church of God of Prophecy headquarters in Tennessee, and began collecting money for a college in Tarassa, Spain. When the Church of God of Prophecy wrote the college to ask if Rivera was authorized to receive donations for the college, it received a reply stating the college had given him a letter to collect funds only during the month of July. The college later discovered that while “he claimed to be a Catholic priest … he had never been one.” The college reported that he left debts he had acquired in the name of the parish of San Lorenzo, and that Spanish police were seeking him for “authentic swindles and cheats.” Finally, they said that no funds had ever reached the college from Rivera. In a letter to the U.S. Department of Justice, Charles Hawkins of the Church of God of Prophecy said Rivera’s bank had contacted them because he had written a check on a closed account.

. . .


Metz, G., Clapp, R., Hopkins, J. M., Shuster, W. G., & Minnery, T. (1981). Jack Chick’s Anti-catholic Alberto Comic Book Is Exposed as a Fraud. Christianity Today, 25(5), 354–357.
Thanks, I don't know who tell the truth, but I notice some of what Alberto say about vatican come true. I Will make more research.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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That's not how I meant 'be' Christ. Yeeeeaaaah we re all called to to be God. That's it. I thought all humans empty themselves and put on divine nature. Everybody knows that right?
I never know that human call to be God. Than It Will be millions of God

What I know is some pope claim to be God oN earth and this is antichrist.

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c. 3)
 
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So you believe every catholic is God?
No. That's what you were distorting my comment about being Christ in the world to mean. I guess that's how one can seem to have an argument when they don't.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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How is that relevant to the post?

You are critical of Rome for all the wrong reasons. It's not the Marian dogmas that are the problem, there are a symptom. The biggest issue with Rome is that she denies the sufficiency of scripture. While you deny what it says about Jesus.
And what what might that be that you say I deny what it says about Jesus ?

Marian dogmas show what kind of government Catholisicim is under.
 
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never know that human call to be God. Than It Will be millions of God
Well now4
Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c. 3)
That's divine authority for ya. I would expect the Church today to claim such since it did in the beginning. You don't believe that the religion of Christ has authority to do what Christ said it could. The problem you have with the Catholic Church is that it acts too much like a Church would with God as it's founder.
 
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Marian dogmas show what kind of government Catholisicim is unde
That opinion keeps you ignorant about Christ.
Mary MAGNIFIES the LORD.

To think that Scriptures tell us that Jesus' mother would be called Blessed from generation to generation. That is by definition a tradition of recognizing the holiness of Mary. You continue a tradition of abuse towards Jesus' mother.
 
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Gnostics said the same thing. God is found internally. like them you say the visible witness established by Jesus among men and given his authority isn't necessary because the authority of God is found internally (sola Scriptura). in that way you deny the incarnational characteristic of the Body of Christ like the Gnostics.
Gnostic, how did you come to that conclusion? Because I do not glory in corrupted flesh and blood?

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Who delivered the corrupted flesh and blood of the Son of man?

I don't think the earthen corrupted flesh of mankind is evil .Nothing is evil it itself save the evil one. Its dead but not evil. Dead things simple have not power .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Peter who blasphemed the Son of man the apostle Jesus is not evil it was the evil one working in him. Our Holy Father gave Jesus the apostles word to rebuke that evil spirit of the antichrists'. Jesu had no power of his own that could . He in effect moved form within said to Peter get behind me not seen .Walk by faith not by sight.