Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?
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This is true. No denomination today can trace themselves back to the early church, that is a fact. I know Catholics and Orthodox love to try to pull that, even some Baptists ive seen that being pulled, but the best we can do today is go by what the Scriptures state. There really arent that many different ways to view it as people make it seem, I can understand differences in eschatology and things, but other than that, its clear cut what the bible teaches 99% of the time.
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Interesting theory. Thank you for articulating it. My contention is this , Bishops are successors of the Apostles. Their charism given to them by the laying on of hands. A conduit of contact back to the original Apostles. A conduit in which the Holy Spirit operates. For a transfer from apostolic succession to man of sin to occur I would think the power of the Holy Spirit would have to be overcome by the power of Satan.
Interesting theory. Thank you for articulating it. My contention is this , Bishops are successors of the Apostles. Their charism given to them by the laying on of hands. A conduit of contact back to the original Apostles. A conduit in which the Holy Spirit operates. For a transfer from apostolic succession to man of sin to occur I would think the power of the Holy Spirit would have to be overcome by the power of Satan.
If the reader is not understanding the cultural relevance, context, intended audience, discerning between metaphor, simile, and literalism properly, and misunderstanding nuances lost in language translation then the Bible becomes a very complicated book.
Given there is so much to take in to really understand the intended messages of Bible writers, most people probably aren't prepared to be teachers of the Bible. The Bible actually warns against many people being teachers. I think that there are colleges singularly devoted to teaching people to try to understand the Bible is a testament to the Bible's complexity.
If that wasn't enough, imagine needing to pray for divine intervention to help understand the Bible when people are studying or casually reading it. Yes, many people pray for help to understand the Bible.
So that's how we've gotten to the point where there are many doctrines, theologies, interpretations of the Bible.
Mark 9:38-41 (ESV)
38John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39but Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40For the one who is not against us is for us. 41For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
Given there is so much to take in to really understand the intended messages of Bible writers, most people probably aren't prepared to be teachers of the Bible. The Bible actually warns against many people being teachers. I think that there are colleges singularly devoted to teaching people to try to understand the Bible is a testament to the Bible's complexity.
If that wasn't enough, imagine needing to pray for divine intervention to help understand the Bible when people are studying or casually reading it. Yes, many people pray for help to understand the Bible.
So that's how we've gotten to the point where there are many doctrines, theologies, interpretations of the Bible.
Mark 9:38-41 (ESV)
38John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39but Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40For the one who is not against us is for us. 41For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
Isaiah 22
will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and no one shall shut; he shall shut, and no one shall open.
Matt 16
Iwill give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and no one shall shut; he shall shut, and no one shall open.
Matt 16
Iwill give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
After more careful though I have narrowed down when the True Church of Rome was turned into the apostate (2nd Beast) Church of the Roman Empire (1st Beast).
The murdering of Christians and in Roman Empire stopped with the Edict of Milan in 313AD set by Constantine the Great. So Constantine seems to be a good guy, but he was not. He did stop the persecutions and legalized Christianity but then he governed over it. Constantine was an instrument of the Beast and was used to change the tactics of the 1st beast of Rev to the tactics of the 2nd beast of Rev. And the tactics of the 2nd beast of revelation were even more sinister and effective in controlling Christianity than murder.
The accession of Constantine was a turning point for early Christianity. After his victory, Constantine took over the role of patron of the Christian faith. He supported the Church financially, had an number of basilicas built,
He was not a christian (not baptized) and corrupted the church with his money and powers. So althrough he seemed like a good guy he was an agent of the Devil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
Constantine built the old St. Peters Basilica over the tomb of st. peter, and made it a temple or shrine to the apostle Peter, the so called first pope, a false christ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_St._Peter's_Basilica
So the faith was corrupted here as well. Constantine called together the Council of Nicaea which was the first ecumenical council of many, which changed and usurped God's Word. These ecumenical councils are the adding to God's Word.
The Visions of Constantine (which were false visions from Satan)
According to legend, on Oct. 27, the day before the two armies would battle outside of Rome near the Milvian Bridge, Constantine had a vision instructing him to fight in the name of Christ, with his soldiers’ shields bearing the symbol of Christ. The symbol was either a cross or the labarum, an intersection of the chi (X) and rho (P), the letters of Christ.
“He saw with his own eyes the trophy of a cross of light in the heavens, above the sun, and bearing the inscription, CONQUER BY THIS. At this sight he himself was struck with amazement, and his whole army also, which followed him on this expedition, and witnessed the miracle,” wrote Eusebius.
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news...ntine-Has-Christian-Vision-Before-Battle.html
Bishops of Rome under Constantine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops_of_Rome_under_Constantine_the_Great#Popes_under_Constantine
Constantine corrupted Pope (Bishop of Rome) Miltiades by giving him a palace.
Miltiades (311–314) was pope at the time of Constantine's victory, and Constantine gifted to Miltiades the Lateran Palace, ... Turning to Constantine was a strange move because he had not yet been baptized,
Julius I[edit]
The influence of Constantine would help solidify a strong role for the Roman emperor in the selection process (of Pope): Constantine chose Julius I (337–352) for all intents and purposes, and his son Constantius II exiled Pope Liberius and installed Felix II (an Arian) as his successor.[1]
CONCLUSION:
So the Bishop of Rome was completely corrupted with the creation of the Roman [Empire] Catholic Church by Constantine the Great. Notice how the world calls Constantine, "The Great". That should be our first clue.
The murdering of Christians and in Roman Empire stopped with the Edict of Milan in 313AD set by Constantine the Great. So Constantine seems to be a good guy, but he was not. He did stop the persecutions and legalized Christianity but then he governed over it. Constantine was an instrument of the Beast and was used to change the tactics of the 1st beast of Rev to the tactics of the 2nd beast of Rev. And the tactics of the 2nd beast of revelation were even more sinister and effective in controlling Christianity than murder.
The accession of Constantine was a turning point for early Christianity. After his victory, Constantine took over the role of patron of the Christian faith. He supported the Church financially, had an number of basilicas built,
He was not a christian (not baptized) and corrupted the church with his money and powers. So althrough he seemed like a good guy he was an agent of the Devil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
Constantine built the old St. Peters Basilica over the tomb of st. peter, and made it a temple or shrine to the apostle Peter, the so called first pope, a false christ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_St._Peter's_Basilica
So the faith was corrupted here as well. Constantine called together the Council of Nicaea which was the first ecumenical council of many, which changed and usurped God's Word. These ecumenical councils are the adding to God's Word.
The Visions of Constantine (which were false visions from Satan)
According to legend, on Oct. 27, the day before the two armies would battle outside of Rome near the Milvian Bridge, Constantine had a vision instructing him to fight in the name of Christ, with his soldiers’ shields bearing the symbol of Christ. The symbol was either a cross or the labarum, an intersection of the chi (X) and rho (P), the letters of Christ.
“He saw with his own eyes the trophy of a cross of light in the heavens, above the sun, and bearing the inscription, CONQUER BY THIS. At this sight he himself was struck with amazement, and his whole army also, which followed him on this expedition, and witnessed the miracle,” wrote Eusebius.
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news...ntine-Has-Christian-Vision-Before-Battle.html
Bishops of Rome under Constantine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops_of_Rome_under_Constantine_the_Great#Popes_under_Constantine
Constantine corrupted Pope (Bishop of Rome) Miltiades by giving him a palace.
Miltiades (311–314) was pope at the time of Constantine's victory, and Constantine gifted to Miltiades the Lateran Palace, ... Turning to Constantine was a strange move because he had not yet been baptized,
Julius I[edit]
The influence of Constantine would help solidify a strong role for the Roman emperor in the selection process (of Pope): Constantine chose Julius I (337–352) for all intents and purposes, and his son Constantius II exiled Pope Liberius and installed Felix II (an Arian) as his successor.[1]
CONCLUSION:
So the Bishop of Rome was completely corrupted with the creation of the Roman [Empire] Catholic Church by Constantine the Great. Notice how the world calls Constantine, "The Great". That should be our first clue.
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Every one is born lost. they must be saved. now when it is established a succession of men, like a position of bishop, all it takes is for one unsaved man to fall within the line of succession to corrupt the whole succession forward.
this is why absolutely you cant have this continuing succession of position of power. There is only one teacher, one priest, one king... that is Jesus Christ of Nazerath.,
The succession of the Bishop of Rome was doomed to fall into Satan's hands. And God foresaw this and told us this in Rev 13. God is in control. God remains soveriegn..
this is why absolutely you cant have this continuing succession of position of power. There is only one teacher, one priest, one king... that is Jesus Christ of Nazerath.,
The succession of the Bishop of Rome was doomed to fall into Satan's hands. And God foresaw this and told us this in Rev 13. God is in control. God remains soveriegn..
The Apostles chose successors and the laying on of hands confers the gift of teaching and preserving the faith.
Paul wrote this to his successor Timothy.
2 Timothy
6
For this reason I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands;
Timothy 4
14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders.[f]
The Apostles chose a successor to replace Judas.
An apostolic succession is scripture.
Paul wrote this to his successor Timothy.
2 Timothy
6
For this reason I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands;
Timothy 4
14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders.[f]
The Apostles chose a successor to replace Judas.
An apostolic succession is scripture.
The house of David is a shadow of the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is better understood as a relationship rather than a place.
Jesus gave them directly to Peter since Peter was the first to proclaim the Faith moved by the Holy Spirit.
All bishops have keys. It means they loose and bind as Jesus described to Peter.
Jesus gave them directly to Peter since Peter was the first to proclaim the Faith moved by the Holy Spirit.
All bishops have keys. It means they loose and bind as Jesus described to Peter.
These are very good questions.
If this were true then salvation becomes a game of tag.
For example, what if some of those who are laying on of hands are fakers and frauds?
I surmise that this gift was just for Timothy in this case. I will look more closely later and comment more if I see something else.
They did choose Mathias, but they chose Mathias before they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, their actions in choosing Mathias were in error. They did not have the proper guidance nor the authority.
Search through scripture and look to see if any Apostles chose an Apostolic successor after having received the Holy Spirit? I believe the answer to this question is No. Therefore, apostolic succession would not be scriptural.
If this were true then salvation becomes a game of tag.
For example, what if some of those who are laying on of hands are fakers and frauds?
I surmise that this gift was just for Timothy in this case. I will look more closely later and comment more if I see something else.
They did choose Mathias, but they chose Mathias before they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, their actions in choosing Mathias were in error. They did not have the proper guidance nor the authority.
Search through scripture and look to see if any Apostles chose an Apostolic successor after having received the Holy Spirit? I believe the answer to this question is No. Therefore, apostolic succession would not be scriptural.