Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Paul wrote this to his successor Timothy.
2 Timothy
6
For this reason I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands;
Timothy 4
14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders.[f]

About 1 Timothy 4:

1 Timothy 4:1-10 speaks to all of us believers,
But
1 Timothy 4:11-16 speaks only to Timothy.

It can be very tricky to get scripture correctly and this is why there is no way around this most important truth:

One must Repent and Believe on [the true] Christ Jesus to be saved. Once saved you are given the gift of the Holy Spirit that will guide you correctly through the scriptures.

Without this most important step you will walk in error through the scriptures.

 

[Jackson123]

The house of David is a shadow of the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is better understood as a relationship rather than a place.
Jesus gave them directly to Peter since Peter was the first to proclaim the Faith moved by the Holy Spirit.
All bishops have keys. It means they loose and bind as Jesus described to Peter.

Did isiah 22 mention Peter?

You say key mean to lose and bind and jesus give it to Peter

And you say it mean every bishop have that power

So you believe Jesus give that power to Peter or every bishop?

 

[Benadam]

They did choose Mathias, but they chose Mathias before they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, their actions in choosing Mathias were in error. They did not have the proper guidance nor the authority

The Apostolic charism is received in the upper room.

John 20

When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them;

That was before they chose a replacement. Right? It would also explain the Apostles including of the Holy Spirit in the choice

 

[Jackson123]

Mat 18
1.At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 18 Jesus talk to his disciple, not only Peter.

Somthenpower to bindbis for every believer

 

[Benadam]

Did isiah 22 mention Peter?

You say key mean to lose and bind and jesus give it to Peter

And you say it mean every bishop have that power

So you believe Jesus give that power to Peter or every bishop?

He said that to Peter only. Signifying Peters authority over the power of the keys which is given to all of them.

 

[Benadam]

Mat 18
1.At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 18 Jesus talk to his disciple, not only Peter.

Somthenpower to bindbis for every believer

Do you have the authority to do this?

1 Cor. 5:5

you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.


Thats Paul exercising the authority to loose. Excommunication is loosing a bond.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

The Apostolic charism is received in the upper room.

John 20

When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them;

That was before they chose a replacement. Right? It would also explain the Apostles including of the Holy Spirit in the choice

But Thomas wasn't there with them in John 20:22

And in John 20:24-29 when Jesus does appear to Thomas, there is no indication that Thomas received the Holy Spirit here.

In John 20:22 Jesus breathes on them the promise of the Holy Spirit before his ascension, but he does not actually deliver to them the Holy Spirit at this time.

Consult with Luke 24:49-53
Consult with Acts 1:4-5

You will then see in the rest of Acts 1 and Acts 2 that the apostles received the Holy Spirit after Jesus's Ascension and after they had selected Mathias.

Therefore they selected Mathias as Apostle without proper guidance and authority. They were absent from the presence of the LORD.

 

[Jackson123]

He said that to Peter only. Signifying Peters authority over the power of the keys which is given to all of them.

Mat 18 Jesus also give that power to His disciples not only Peter

No body can fool Jesus with status, just because one bishop doesn't mean close to Him and has that power.

 

[Jackson123]

Do you have the authority to do this?

1 Cor. 5:5

you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.


Thats Paul exercising the authority to loose. Excommunication is loosing a bond.

So not only Peter ?

And Paul ask people in chorinth to exercise the power of bind and lose.

 

[Benadam]

But Thomas wasn't there with them in John 20:22

And in John 20:24-29 when Jesus does appear to Thomas, there is no indication that Thomas received the Holy Spirit here.

In John 20:22 Jesus breathes on them the promise of the Holy Spirit before his ascension, but he does not actually deliver to them the Holy Spirit at this time.

Consult with Luke 24:49-53
Consult with Acts 1:4-5

You will then see in the rest of Acts 1 and Acts 2 that the apostles received the Holy Spirit after Jesus's Ascension and after they had selected Mathias.

Therefore they selected Mathias as Apostle without proper guidance and authority. They were absent from the presence of the LORD.

It here is no doubt that the power from on high was received at Pentecost.
That doesn't mean that nothing happened in the upper room. If it did nothing I don't think Jesus would have bothered doing it. I believe it disposed their heart to as He said 'receive' the Holy Spirit. That would make an in road for the Holy Spirit for a closer relationship. Perhaps.

 

[Benadam]

So not only Peter ?

And Paul ask people in chorinth to exercise the power of bind and lose.

but it's made plain by Paul that it's his authority being exercised. He said this to them right before.
1 cor. 5
3For though absent in body, I am in spirit; and as if present I have already pronounced judgment 4 in

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

It here is no doubt that the power from on high was received at Pentecost.
That doesn't mean that nothing happened in the upper room. If it did nothing I don't think Jesus would have bothered doing it. I believe it disposed their heart to as He said 'receive' the Holy Spirit. That would make an in road for the Holy Spirit for a closer relationship. Perhaps.

Read what John wrote from John 16:1 to John 16:15

Read the different translations of John 16:7
https://biblehub.com/john/16-7.htm

John 16:7 New International Version
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 16:7 Good News Translation
But I am telling you the truth: it is better for you that I go away, because if I do not go, the Helper will not come to you. But if I do go away, then I will send him to you.

John is saying that Jesus must first go away (comma), then he will send the Holy Spirit to them.

So in John 20:22 what Jesus did was symbolic. Because then both Jesus and Holy Spirit would be there together with the disciples at the same time.

The way I am describing this creates no contradiction in Scripture. When you interpret events and meanings from the different scriptures and there is no contradiction between them, then that is the proper way to interpret it then, because no contradiction exists in Scripture.

But if you interpret something which creates contradiction, that means that you are not correctly interpreting scripture. And so what God has done with his scriptures is to make the prophets and apostles testify against one another. And it can only be all true if all their testimonies align.

The way you are currently interpreting creates contradiction in Scripture, because then John is contradicting what Luke wrote in both Gospel of Luke and Book of Acts, and John is also contradicting himself. and so this current interpretation of your has to be ruled out.

 

[Grandpa]

Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Mat 16:16-18)

Looking at the progression of events, it seems to make more sense to link Peter's confession, "“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” to Jesus' declaration 'upon this rock' I will build my Church'.
The Church is built upon that confession.

Along with Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

So both. The Lord Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the Living God and the Father revealing this to His People, being the Rock that the Lord will build His Church.

Trying to make what the Lord said to be about Peter is comical.


And yet, by some peoples opinion, since the Catholic church might be the first church, we should go by their interpretation that the Lord was speaking about Peter... That's a pretty handy interpretation to have. Especially if your church is DESIGNED from the beginning to use Christianity to take advantage of people.

Like telling their people if they give enough money they can buy their way into heaven... The one true church...

 

[crossnote]

Along with Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

So both. The Lord Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the Living God and the Father revealing this to His People, being the Rock that the Lord will build His Church.

Trying to make what the Lord said to be about Peter is comical.


And yet, by some peoples opinion, since the Catholic church might be the first church, we should go by their interpretation that the Lord was speaking about Peter... That's a pretty handy interpretation to have. Especially if your church is DESIGNED from the beginning to use Christianity to take advantage of people.

Like telling their people if they give enough money they can buy their way into heaven... The one true church...

The Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means "outside the Church there is no salvation". The 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church explained this as "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body."

...and of course, we know, according to Rome, who the 'true Church' is...

 

[Jackson123]

but it's made plain by Paul that it's his authority being exercised. He said this to them right before.
1 cor. 5
3For though absent in body, I am in spirit; and as if present I have already pronounced judgment 4 in

So not only Peter, am I correct?

Do you believe Paul Spirit literly out from his body and went to Corinth?

 

[Benadam]

in John 20:22 what Jesus did was symbolic. Because then both Jesus and Holy Spirit would be there together with the disciples at the same time.

You are placing local restrictions on God which to me indicates misunderstanding. There is no contradictions in my interpretation but I do see yours requires reducing the acts of God to having no meaning. His words His breath His act meant nothing because it's just symbolic.

 

[Jackson123]

but it's made plain by Paul that it's his authority being exercised. He said this to them right before.
1 cor. 5
3For though absent in body, I am in spirit; and as if present I have already pronounced judgment 4 in

Paul not say, please use my authority. Paul pronounce judgement as senior in Christ that have more knowledge than people in chorinth

For sure not only Peter have authority to lose and bind. Am I correct?

 

[Benadam]

So not only Peter, am I correct?

Do you believe Paul Spirit literly out from his body and went to Corinth?

I don't think his spirit needed to leave his body to do that.

 

[Benadam]

Paul not say, please use my authority. Paul pronounce judgement as senior in Christ that have more knowledge than people in chorinth

For sure not only Peter have authority to lose and bind. Am I correct?

Yes correct not only Peter. Jesus gave it to all of them.

 

[tourist]

How are they not Christians?

Critical question of this thread.