Is Catholocism bad?

ikecantle · Jan 5, 2019

Hello umzza,

I came from a Catholic background as my entire family is Catholic. I went to Catholic schools for my primary and secondary education. Many of my friends are Catholics and I love Catholics. For your reference, I’ve provided three helpful resources that can help you answer your question:

Catholicism: Crisis of Faith

Tell Catholics the Truth—by Mike Gendron

The Gospel According to Rome:
https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Rome-Comparing-Tradition/dp/1565071077

May God’s Spirit work in your heart and guide you into ALL truth as He gives you discernment. Grace and peace to you, umzza.

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

crossnote said:

Catholicism is a Jewish religion, Protestantism is a European religion.

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

Hevosmies said:

You just proved my point that I made in this post: https://christianchat.com/threads/is-catholocism-bad.181857/post-3812755 (Check it out)

You are one of these two guys that I knew of. Who read the early church fathers, concluded they said things similar to catholicism and then got convinced it was original Christianity.

Do you see the problem with this? You are using EXTRA-BIBLICAL writings (that survived the era of catholic tyranny) to prove the catholic church is the one true church. So you are using things outside of the bible to prove things outside of the Bible.

I have read the early church fathers and Luther is MUCH MORE in line with them than the Roman catholics! Nobody prayed to mary or saints among the ECFs nor in their writings.

https://carm.org/list-of-roman-catholic-false-teachings

When we go to the SCRIPTURES catholicism is easily debunked:

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" -Exodus 20:3 (their statue bowing of Mary, etc debunked)

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." -Matthew 23:9 (their priesthood debunked)

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." —Matthew 6:7 (Rosary debunked)

"there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." [1 Timothy 2:5] (prayers to Mary and saints debunked, only ONE mediator)

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." -1 Timothy 4:1-3 (Sound familiar? Priests cant marry and you cant eat meat on certain days, CATHOLICISM DEBUNKED)

The problem is that the Church Fathers interpreted the Bible as Catholics, so Protestant interpretations are alien to them.

The Church Fathers venerated Mary, called her Immaculate, ever virgin, and Ark of the Covenant.

Catholic understanding of Scripture is on a far higher plain, because it is the tradition of The Holy Spirit handed down, and not the mental meanderings of the traditions of men that flowed after Luther.

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

You believe what they say that sola scriptura is not biblical?
Sola = alone

Scriptura = bible

How in the world sola scriptura not biblical.

To me, people can say what ever they want, If It is not reasonable, why I buy.

They say protestant terible, up to them, but my savior is Jesus, protestant is human, some are good some are bad,

But because of love I have to tell them. Catholic run by devil.

Pope promote one world government and It is Lucifer government.

https://prophecyinthenews.com/world...-new-world-order-to-the-wests-cultural-elite/

You want to build a bridge? Bridge between God and Lucifer?

Are you hate them? If you love them you have to tell them that they religion work for the devil.

You say they not only base oN the bible, but bible + Magisterium

Let be reasonable, bible + Magisterium

Mean must inline with the bible

And inline with Magisterium

How about the fact they Magisterium not inline with the bible?

Let not hate them by say they worship the Lord

Let love them, tell them the truth, they work for the devil

They think they work for the Lord, they are victim. Love them, give them the right information, Will you?

The intelligent man knows the Bible is not scriptural, and understanding this concept, he realises that the Bible is not the only authority.

People make assumptions from illogical foundations balanced on prejudiced positions.

They needs to be deeper and more honest thinking.

blue_ladybug · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

GOD WROTE the bible.. so HOW is it not scriptural? Likewise, GOD IS the ONLY authority. So HOW can there be more than ONE authority???

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

blue_ladybug said:

Deeper thinking required.

Sketch · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

No, I don't believe that, But they do. That's the point.
It does little good to quote the Bible to anyone that doesn't believe it is the final authority.
They put Church Tradition above the Bible.

Sketch · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

No, I am referring to our Christian brothers and sisters who were raised Catholic.
If we go running after them waving a Bible and screaming "devil, devil, devil..."
they aren't going to listen to us. It only serves to prove that everything they have heard about us is true.

Sketch · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

That\s exactly what I am promoting here. An open respectful dialogue.
They are actually interested to talk to us when we do that.
I like to ask honest questions and challenge their thinking.
I learn more about them every time I do. And they learn more about us and what we believe. (and why)

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Sketch said:

Yep, love mean want them go to heaven, Jesus is the only way. Jesus mean the teaching of Jesus, not Magisterium.

To love, mean tell the truth.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Sketch said:

The point here is to understand we can not believe 2 thing that oppose each other in the same time.

We can not believe that say not to bow a statue, not pray to the death, and believe Magisterium that per It to bow before statue. That ilogic.

1. To much Eat is not healthy

2' to much Eat is healthy

How you believe both.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

Let me quote the definition of scriptural from Merriam webster dictionary

scriptural adjective
scrip·tur·al | \ˈskrip(t)-sh(ə-)rəl \
Definition of scriptural
: of, relating to, contained in, or according to a sacred writing
especially : BIBLICAL

How you say bible is not scriptural when scriptural mean biblical or bible base or according to the bible

Can you say constitution is not constitutional

Can you say constitution not according to constitution?

Simple Logic brother.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Sketch said:

Good, so, they do not believe bible is final authority

It mean they believe other as final authority.

Bible containt Jesus teaching, apostle teaching inspired by Holy Spirit.

That mean they not consider Jesus and Holy spirit as final or high authority.

That imply they do not believe Jesus is God.

They may state Jesus is God, but in the same time It prove they teach Jesus not final authority/not God.

It prove Lie.

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

Sketch said:

Just to clarify. They don't actually put Church tradition above the Bible.

Sacred Tradition has another name to a Catholic, it's called The Tradition of The Holy Spirit.

It was this Tradition of the Catholic Church that determined the Canon of Scripture in Catholic Councils.

We know that the Bible is not scriptural, there is no book which lists all the books that belong in the Bible. That list or " canon " came from Catholic Tradition. It's what the Catholic Church does a lot of, it canonises things.

So when Protestants pick up a bible, they mostly unknowingly are relying on Catholic Tradition, every book in Protestant bibles was selected by Catholic councils using sacred tradition.
Protestants reject the tradition that gave the world the Bible, and strangely accept the Catholics inspired determination of the Bible.

If they trust this one inspired tradition of the Catholic Church, why do they not trust the Catholic Church's inspired interpretation of it.

" Without the Catholic Church, we would have no Bible " Professor Peter Flint, Protestant translator of the Dead Sea scrolls.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

Just to clarify. They don't actually put Church tradition above the Bible.

Sacred Tradition has another name to a Catholic, it's called The Tradition of The Holy Spirit.

It was this Tradition of the Catholic Church that determined the Canon of Scripture in Catholic Councils.

We know that the Bible is not scriptural, there is no book which lists all the books that belong in the Bible. That list or " canon " came from Catholic Tradition. It's what the Catholic Church does a lot of, it canonises things.

So when Protestants pick up a bible, they mostly unknowingly are relying on Catholic Tradition, every book in Protestant bibles was selected by Catholic councils using sacred tradition.
Protestants reject the tradition that gave the world the Bible, and strangely accept the Catholics inspired determination of the Bible.

If they trust this one inspired tradition of the Catholic Church, why do they not trust the Catholic Church's inspired interpretation of it.

" Without the Catholic Church, we would have no Bible " Professor Peter Flint, Protestant translator of the Dead Sea scrolls.

Matthew, mark, Luke John, Paul etc wrote bible are they catholic?

If so, why they not teach pray to Mary?

Why they not teach to bow before statue?

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

Just to clarify. They don't actually put Church tradition above the Bible.

Sacred Tradition has another name to a Catholic, it's called The Tradition of The Holy Spirit.

It was this Tradition of the Catholic Church that determined the Canon of Scripture in Catholic Councils.

We know that the Bible is not scriptural, there is no book which lists all the books that belong in the Bible. That list or " canon " came from Catholic Tradition. It's what the Catholic Church does a lot of, it canonises things.

So when Protestants pick up a bible, they mostly unknowingly are relying on Catholic Tradition, every book in Protestant bibles was selected by Catholic councils using sacred tradition.
Protestants reject the tradition that gave the world the Bible, and strangely accept the Catholics inspired determination of the Bible.

If they trust this one inspired tradition of the Catholic Church, why do they not trust the Catholic Church's inspired interpretation of it.

" Without the Catholic Church, we would have no Bible " Professor Peter Flint, Protestant translator of the Dead Sea scrolls.

To me If without Jesus we Would have No bible.

You say catholic do not put tradition above bible, than you say tradition determined bible

Who is higher the one who determined or product of their determination?

To me God determined bible.

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

I'll make logic even simpler for you.

What book in the bible lists what books belong in the Bible?

If the bible is your sole authority and it is not self determining, some external authority determined the Bible for you.

That external authority was the Catholic Church, that's why I trust its interpretation of its Book.

The Bible is a Catholic Book, determined by Catholics for Catholics, that's why I don't trust all the conflicted interpretations of the traditions of men in Protestantism. None of them determined the bible, and which one of those conflicted interpretive human traditions is true anyway. Each privately interprets its own human traditions.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

I do not believe bible catholic authority. Bible is God authority.

Bible exist before catholic.

Bible say not bow before statue.

Catholic bow before statue.

https://christiannews.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Bergoglio-compressed.jpg

That mean catholic against bible

How bible catholic authority when catholic against bible?

Lambster · Jan 5, 2019

Jackson123 said:

Which has greater authority, the spoken word of God or the written word of God?

The answer is, both are of the same force.

When the Gospel was preached and explained before there was even any writings, people received the Gospel through their ears. That's why " Bible alone " believers aren't like the earliest Christians who had no New Testament writings to reference and no bible, they only had what was preached to them by the Catholic Church.
Catholics are the only pre bible Christians, because it was they who determined the canon of the Bible.

Most people over the first 1800 years of the Catholic Church were illiterate anyway, they received the Gospel by the preaching of the Catholic Church.

The spoken word of God is The Tradition of The Holy Spirit handed down in the teaching and preaching of the Catholic Church. This Sacred Tradition not only determined the canon of scripture, telling us what was indeed scripture, it also taught us the true interpretation of the scripture.

Jackson123 · Jan 5, 2019

Lambster said:

If the spoken word of God not inline with the written word of God, than one must be Lie.

The written word say not bow to statue, I give you link, pope bow before statue.

The written word must be standart now. It was Jesus and all prophet and apostle teach the word.

Some apostle wrote a letter, Jesus speak than His follower documenteted His teaching, they are not liar, they wrote this document Honestly, we call this document bible.

Any tradition against this document, I call It demonic.

Is Catholocism bad?

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