is Christ able to bear the cross?

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pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
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#41
By Roman law a new comer was under the scrutiny of the Roman guards. The Roman guards forced there authority on new comers to carry their shields sometimes their armor to clean the streets anything they saw fit to show and boast that Rome was in charge.

In the case of compelling one to carry the cross was to expedite the crucifixion of Christ.
Jesus being beaten as badly as he was was also bleeding out to the point of death.
The order was to crucify . The soldiers saw fit to order the man to carry the cross.
Also preparation for the Passover had begun The city was crowded , the guards were needed for crowd control.

Some believe that the place where Christ was crucified was also the place where Abraham offered up his son Isaac.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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#42
suppose God is too tired or too distressed to intercede for your sin tomorrow.

is that an issue?
No, because Jesus is back where he came from,

it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power 1Cor.15:43
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#43
sermon after sermon i have heard explains that the Son of God was too weak to carry the cross, that the exact representation of God manifest in the flesh did not have the strength to shoulder what should have been our burden.

the text doesn't actually say this.

why was Simon compelled to carry Christ's cross?
what is the significance?
hey posthuman ... here are my thoughts on the matter:

In Matthew 27:32 and Mark 15:21, we read that Simon of Cyrene was compelled to carry the cross. In Luke 23:26 we read the cross was laid on Simon of Cyrene.

However in John 19:16-17 we read Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha


So, in my thinking, it appears there are two aspects in the "cross" of Jesus ...

There is the physical implement upon which Jesus was nailed. This "cross" was carried by Simon of Cyrene under compulsion.

There is the spiritual cross which could only be borne by the Lord Jesus Christ. This cross was the burden of Jesus alone. No one could carry this "cross" for Him or with Him. He had to do this on behalf of all of mankind.


I believe that if salvation of mankind was dependent upon Jesus carrying the physical cross, He would have and could have done so. The fact that Simon of Cyrene was compelled by man / allowed by God to carry the cross leads me to believe that Jesus carrying the physical cross was not a requirement for salvation of mankind.



Another thought I had was that criminals guilty of crime would carry their cross to the place of hanging. This would be a "walk of shame" as they walk through the crowd of bystanders.

Jesus was innocent of any crime. His trial was a sham and a farce. Additionally, there was absolutely no sin in Him. So, while Jesus had to walk to golgotha / Calvary, God spared Him the additional shame of having to carry the cross. And while Simon of Cyrene was an innocent bystander, he was not without sin. All of Adam's descendants are represented in Simon of Cyrene carrying that cross.




 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,422
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#44
Some believe that the place where Christ was crucified was also the place where Abraham offered up his son Isaac.
That is pretty interesting.

Along with David burying Goliaths head there as well.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,962
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#46
you really think Genesis 3:15 & the typology of David as a figure of Christ sounds like a fairy tale?
What was posted certainly sounded like a fairy tale. David is a type of Christ, but let's not get carried away.
You believe God was too weak and emotional to bear our burden?
You would really have to seriously distort what I said to come up with this notion.

AS for the rest of your responses, it would appear that you really do not understand this subject, and when you are given biblical responses, you refuse to accept them, and try to distort what is being presented.

So just to make it very brief, Christ did not use His divine powers or His divine authority to minimize or avoid his sufferings. At the same time, He decided upon the exact moment of His death, and before that He finished His redemptive work on the cross. No man took His life from Him.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#47
You would really have to seriously distort what I said to come up with this notion.
I think it's a pretty much literal direct conclusion of the majority tradition you parroted.
You said God was in too weak of a state because of what man did to Him, and you appealed to emotional distress you assume Him to have been further handicapped by.

Still waiting for you to give any kind of response at all as to the meaning of these things - unless the only meaning you are able to perceive at all is this supposed inability of God to bear the tree? That He tried and failed?
Even if your thinking goes no further on the matter, you have failed to address the central issue of what the spiritual significance of this event is.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#48
He decided upon the exact moment of His death, and before that He finished His redemptive work on the cross. No man took His life from Him.
Do you believe that Simon bearing this burden is a result of Jesus's inability to carry it Himself or because of Christ's conscious and deliberate will?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#49
So just to make it very brief, Christ did not use His divine powers or His divine authority to minimize or avoid his sufferings
IOW you again state that Jesus could not bear the weight of the cross because His flesh was too weak and His emotional state too upset.

Do you really see no issue with a view in which Jesus Christ, the LORD God Almighty, tries to do something and finds Himself not up to the task?

Lucky for us Simon was there to save our Savior, I guess.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#50
Jesus told each of you to bear your own cross and follow Him -- did Jesus ever speak of 'His own cross' ?

He spoke of the cup He had to drink and the baptism with which He must be baptized -- did He say "the cross He must pick up and bear"? where? because that would teach us what it means that this man from a far country named Simon was compelled to pick up a cross and follow Jesus outside the city, where He lay that burden down and Christ covered it with His blood.

whose cross was that, exactly?
did Jesus die for His own sins? did He die for Simon the Cyrene's?


Matthew, Mark and Luke record Simon being taken from the road and compelled to pick up a certain cross.
John 19:17 says "
He bearing his cross went forth into a place called 'of the skull'"


what is our cross?
what is Christ's? is His cross not us, following after Him, bearing our own?
He finds the lost sheep and puts it on His shoulder, rejoicing, carrying it home -- right?


so did this happen because Jesus tried and failed. . ? because Christ made an attempt and found Himself unable?
or did this happen because this was exactly His will and nothing in the universe could stop it from taking place exactly like this?
could angels or princes, any powers, height or depth, or anything in all creation have kept Simon from this thing?
what really made those soldiers coerce this North African man to carry this burden from the courthouse to Calvary?
whose will was it?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#51
gazagates.jpg
"Samson und die Tore von Gaza" -- Martin Luther
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#52
Ah so! This perspective gathers added supported when one considers that translating, 'Simon from Cyrene' as 'hearing (listening) from 'the wall' reiterates the invitation extends to those outside(rs)!
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,192
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#53
yes; i imagine the mountains are also clouds. why would they be different?
What ever works .Twinkle twinkle little star .I see as bear or is it a lion? Wait the dish ran away with the spoon . The dragon hot in pursuit.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,192
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#54
I believe Jesus was severly injured before beimg crucified. I don't know why you would have a problem with the Lord not being able to continue carryinhg the cross. Jesus felt humger and I think needed sleep, so what's the prob?

It was not the unseen Lord that carried the cross .He could of said be cast into the sea. But rather displayed his obedience of the father working in Him to both will and do the good pleasure of God.

Jesus did not do His own will like any apostle as a prophet .The power worked from inside his earthen corrupted body of flesh Just as it works in us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The verse applies to Jesus the apostle just as it does his brother and sisters other apostles (Christians) .
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
913
471
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#55
It was not the unseen Lord that carried the cross .He could of said be cast into the sea. But rather displayed his obedience of the father working in Him to both will and do the good pleasure of God.

Jesus did not do His own will like any apostle as a prophet .The power worked from inside his earthen corrupted body of flesh Just as it works in us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The verse applies to Jesus the apostle just as it does his brother and sisters other apostles (Christians) .
I have no problem believing Jesus felt what humans feel in a physical sense.