is Christ able to bear the cross?

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Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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#21
Bearing his cross is more than carrying the wood he was nailed to. Jesus carried his cross daily and expected his followers to do the same, because the cross isn't God's punishment against mankind. It's mankind's punishment against God.

the world....hated me....Jn.15:18
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,195
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#22
this image is pretty obviously photoshopped. someone has manipulated it, painting dark blobs on the rock face.



here is a view from a greater distance:

View attachment 219524
Someone is in the business of selling lying wonders. Its easy today a click of the mouse. Rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal .Reminds me of a parable below. Seeing things not there and not seeing that are.(no mixing faith no rest in their labor)

Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. Proverb 23
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#23
While His injuries were undoubtedly very great, the suffering for sins within His holy soul was even greater.
You believe God was too weak and emotional to bear our burden?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#24
While on Kibbutz Mishmar HaNegev in 1972-73, I was able to make sev eral dtrips throughout Israel and occupied Jordan. On one of these visits, to Jerusalem, I vised Gologotha, and it does resemble a skull, and those phtos brought it all back. Above is where our Savior was crucified, and below, in a grave hewn out of one large rock formation is the tombe. It had a clot carved out of the very stone of the crypt for the sstone to roll shut, or opne for that matter. I was allowed to go in, and on the one wall to my right was what looked to be a slightly hollowed out ledge, again out of the same stone . It was rectangular, and I do believe it is where our Lord was put to rest, though death could not keep Him.

Now it may be I am wrong about it, but I do not believe so. The photos above seem asuthentic.
Brother

Do you remember what David did with Goliath's head?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#25
I vised Gologotha, and it does resemble a skull, and those phtos brought it all back. Above is where our Savior was crucified, and below, in a grave hewn out of one large rock formation is the tombe. It had a clot carved out of the very stone of the crypt for the sstone to roll shut, or opne for that matter.
So the holes that look like eyes were carved by men? They are tombs, and would have had stones in front of them?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,488
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#26
I always thought them to be natural formations within the rock strata eroded by lots of time,water and wind. The water could have been escaping groundwater during the rainy seasons, but you would have to ask someone who has actually studied the stratigraphy and history of the mount.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,488
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#27
Brother

Do you remember what David did with Goliath's head?
After he severed it? I do not know exactly, I think it may have been put up on display for all to see on his own spear.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#28
After he severed it? I do not know exactly, I think it may have been put up on display for all to see on his own spear.
1 Samuel 17:54
And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armament in his tent.

i believe the cross was on the exact spot that Goliath's head was buried.

Gol-Goliatha
The seed of the serpent's head crushed by the foot of The Seed of the Woman
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#29
Bearing his cross is more than carrying the wood he was nailed to. Jesus carried his cross daily and expected his followers to do the same, because the cross isn't God's punishment against mankind. It's mankind's punishment against God.

the world....hated me....Jn.15:18
what does it mean then that He didn't carry it to Calvary?
and why didn't He? by His own decision? by His supposed inability? by the will of the Romans having been imposed on Him?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,629
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#30
Christ was fully human. Therefore He suffered physically as a man. Does that answer your question?

Christ was also fully divine. Thus He dismissed His spirit after He finished His work of redemption. When He cried "It is finished!" with a loud voice, that was a cry of victory. Therefore He chose His moment of death.
I don't believe we can separate the two natures of Christ any more than we can separate the fact that the Scriptures are fully divine yet fully employing human agencies.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
913
471
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#31
what does it mean then that He didn't carry it to Calvary?
and why didn't He? by His own decision? by His supposed inability? by the will of the Romans having been imposed on Him?
I believe Jesus was severly injured before beimg crucified. I don't know why you would have a problem with the Lord not being able to continue carryinhg the cross. Jesus felt humger and I think needed sleep, so what's the prob?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#32
1 Samuel 17:54
And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armament in his tent.

i believe the cross was on the exact spot that Goliath's head was buried.

Gol-Goliatha
The seed of the serpent's head crushed by the foot of The Seed of the Woman
@garee what do you think of this parable? :)

Goliath's fig-leaves and skull buried, like a talent of gold, under the cross; his sword, hid with the priest, swaddled in cloth behind his priestly garment/covering.
the shepherd-king retrieves the sword and hides in Gath, and then The Shepherd conquers death atop the head of the enemy of God's people.


sounds like the gospel, to me :)
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
679
380
63
#33
The Romans crucified men naked. They showed contempt for Jesus by spitting on him, shoving a crown of thorns upon his head, flogging him near to death prior to crucifying him, would have shamed him even in the end by crucifying his naked body.
Simon of Cyrene followed Jesus as he carried his cross. Reminiscent of Jesus' teaching in Matthew 16:24
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Also look to Luke 9 .
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,966
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#34
I don't believe we can separate the two natures of Christ any more than we can separate the fact that the Scriptures are fully divine yet fully employing human agencies.
It is not a question of separating the two natures but understanding how they were manifested. If you believe that Christ was not subject to hunger, thirst, or pain because He is God, then you have a problem. By the same token, if you cannot comprehend that the crucifixion of Christ was totally unique because He was the God-Man, then you also have a problem.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,966
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#35
Goliath's fig-leaves and skull buried, like a talent of gold, under the cross; his sword, hid with the priest, swaddled in cloth behind his priestly garment/covering. the shepherd-king retrieves the sword and hides in Gath, and then The Shepherd conquers death atop the head of the enemy of God's people.
Sounds like a fairy tale.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,195
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#36
@garee what do you think of this parable? :)

Goliath's fig-leaves and skull buried, like a talent of gold, under the cross; his sword, hid with the priest, swaddled in cloth behind his priestly garment/covering.
the shepherd-king retrieves the sword and hides in Gath, and then The Shepherd conquers death atop the head of the enemy of God's people.


sounds like the gospel, to me :)
Looking at mountain formations is like watching the clouds on a sunny day.If a person squints their eyes the imagination has no end. .

What you offered sounds like a mixture of metaphors used in various parables. Its a evil generation that looks to a sign as a wonder . No literal sign was given . Not a skull not a literal mark 666. No need to wonder rather than believing.

Christians walk by faith the unseen eternal. Paganism walks by sight after the temporal. Out of sight out of mind

If we turn to right he is not there or to the left he's gone .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
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#37
Looking at mountain formations is like watching the clouds on a sunny day.If a person squints their eyes the imagination has no end. .

What you offered sounds like a mixture of metaphors used in various parables. Its a evil generation that looks to a sign as a wonder . No literal sign was given . Not a skull not a literal mark 666. No need to wonder rather than believing.

Christians walk by faith the unseen eternal. Paganism walks by sight after the temporal. Out of sight out of mind

If we turn to right he is not there or to the left he's gone .
yes; i imagine the mountains are also clouds. why would they be different?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
8,499
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#38
It is not a question of separating the two natures but understanding how they were manifested. If you believe that Christ was not subject to hunger, thirst, or pain because He is God, then you have a problem. By the same token, if you cannot comprehend that the crucifixion of Christ was totally unique because He was the God-Man, then you also have a problem.
if you imagine Jesus is pathetic & pitiable, i think you have a problem.
if God is too weak & distraught to bear your burden, i think you have a problem.
if God ceases to be God, i think you have a problem.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,629
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#39
It is not a question of separating the two natures but understanding how they were manifested. If you believe that Christ was not subject to hunger, thirst, or pain because He is God, then you have a problem. By the same token, if you cannot comprehend that the crucifixion of Christ was totally unique because He was the God-Man, then you also have a problem.
I believe saying 'because He is the God/man' to both situations you brought up in post #13 is sufficient and it circumvents the problem of separating the Two natures of Christ. They are inseparable in the One Person of Jesus Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,876
8,499
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#40
I believe Jesus was severly injured before beimg crucified. I don't know why you would have a problem with the Lord not being able to continue carryinhg the cross. Jesus felt humger and I think needed sleep, so what's the prob?
suppose God is too tired or too distressed to intercede for your sin tomorrow.

is that an issue?