Is Christmas paganism?

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StandTro

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2016
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#1
Question: Should we celebrate Christmas or we should not celebrate because it's paganism?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#2
The Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume II (1943-1973), Christmas:
‘‘In the Roman world, the Saturnalia was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25th was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian Mystery god, Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year houses were decorated with greenery and lights and gifts were given to children. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites... Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian.’’

The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica, Winter solstice:
“Also called hibernal solstice, the two moments during the year when the path of the Sun in the sky is farthest south in the Northern Hemisphere (December 21 or 22) and farthest north in the Southern Hemisphere (June 20 or 21). At the winter solstice the Sun travels the shortest path through the sky, and that day therefore has the least daylight and the longest night. According to the astronomical definition of the seasons, the winter solstice also marks the beginning of the season of winter, which lasts until the vernal equinox (March 20 or 21 in the Northern Hemisphere, or September 22 or 23 in the Southern Hemisphere). After the solstice, the days get longer, and the day has thus been celebrated in many cultures as a time of rebirth.”

The extrabiblical evidence from the first and second century is equally spare: There is no mention of birth celebrations in the writings of early Christian writers such as Irenaeus (c. 130–200) or Tertullian (c. 160–225). Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) goes so far as to mock Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as “pagan” practices—a strong indication that Jesus’ birth was not marked with similar festivities at that place and time. As far as we can tell, Christmas was not celebrated at all at this point.

Clearly there was great uncertainty, but also a considerable amount of interest, in dating Jesus’ birth in the late second century. By the fourth century, however, we find references to two dates that were widely recognized—and now also celebrated—as Jesus’ birthday: December 25 in the western Roman Empire and January 6 in the East (especially in Egypt and Asia Minor). The modern Armenian church continues to celebrate Christmas on January 6; for most Christians, however, December 25 would prevail, while January 6 eventually came to be known as the Feast of the Epiphany, commemorating the arrival of the magi in Bethlehem. The period between became the holiday season later known as the 12 days of Christmas.

The earliest mention of December 25 as Jesus’ birthday comes from a mid-fourth-century Roman almanac that lists the death dates of various Christian bishops and martyrs. The first date listed, December 25, is marked: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae: “Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea.”3 In about 400 C.E., Augustine of Hippo mentions a local dissident Christian group, the Donatists, who apparently kept Christmas festivals on December 25, but refused to celebrate the Epiphany on January 6, regarding it as an innovation. Since the Donatist group only emerged during the persecution under Diocletian in 312 C.E. and then remained stubbornly attached to the practices of that moment in time, they seem to represent an older North African Christian tradition.

The Encyclopedia Britannica 1949, article "Christmas", says--
"CHRISTMAS (the 'Mass of Christ') --- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD) mentions several speculations on the date of Christ's birth, and condemns them as superstitious --- The exact day and year of Christ's birth have never been satisfactorily settled. When the Fathers of the Church in AD 340 decided upon a date to celebrate the event, they wisely chose the day of the Winter Solstice, which was firmly fixed in the minds of the people, and which was their MOST IMPORTANT FESTIVAL." ( Meaning that the population had already been celebrating a winter festival that was not Christian, ed.)

International Sandard Bible Encyclopedia
The Christmas date, December 25, is first met with in the West in the 4th century (the eastern date was January 6), and was then possibly borrowed from a pagan festival. December, in the winter season, seems unlikely, as unsuitable for the pasturing of flocks (Lu 2:8), though this objection is perhaps not decisive (Andrews, Conder). A more probable date is a couple of months earlier.

The New International Dictionary of the Christian Church
(J. D. Douglas, ed.; Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1974), p. 223.
"The Christmas tree...recapitulates the idea of tree worship...gilded nuts and balls symbolizing the sun...all the festivities of the [heathen] winter solstice have been absorbed into Christmas Day...the use of holly and mistletoe to the Druidic ceremonies; the Christmas tree to the honours paid to Odin's sacred fir...." (p. 236). [Festivals, Holy Days, and Saints' Days,] 3All of the traditional Christmas trappings = Saturnalia’s Celebration and Saturnalia Decoration! (A pagan holly-day displeasing to God)

The World Book Encyclopedia
: "The ancient Romans held year-end celebrations to honor Saturn, their harvest god; and Mithras, the god of light. Various peoples in northern Europe held festivals in midDecember to celebrate the end of the harvest season. As part of all these celebrations, the people prepared special foods, decorated their homes with greenery, and joined in singing and gift giving. These customs gradually became part of the Christmas

Jeremiah 10:1-5, “Hear the word which YHWH speaks concerning you, O house of Israyl. This is what YHWH says: Do not learn the way of the heathen and do not be deceived by the signs of heaven; though the heathen are deceived by them For the religious customs of the peoples are vain; worthless! For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, so that it will not move; topple over. They are upright, like a palm tree, but they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not give them reverence! They cannot do evil, nor is it in them to do righteousness!”

Deuteronomy 12:29-, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods, saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods."
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#3
We shouldnt as we go by the pagan calender.
if we followed and celebrated it by the jewish calender, yes its ok. i personally dont celebrate any days (Christmas,easter,halloween,...) and feel great :p
 
Sep 1, 2018
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#4
One of the main problems with Christmas is that the Bible does not say when he was born; but one fact is clear, Jesus was not born in December.

Consider the weather conditions at that time of the year in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. The Jewish month of Chislev (corresponding to November/December) was a month with cold and rainy weather. The month after that was Tebeth (December/January). It saw the lowest temperatures of the year, with occasional snows in the highlands.

The Bible writer Ezra shows that Chislev was indeed a month known for cold and rainy weather. After stating that a crowd had gathered in Jerusalem “in the ninth month [Chislev], on the 20th day of the month,” Ezra reports that people were “shivering . . . because of the heavy rain.” Concerning weather conditions at that time of the year, the congregated people themselves said: “It is the rainy season. It is not possible to stand outside.” (Ezra 10:9, 13; Jeremiah 36:22) No wonder shepherds living in that part of the world made sure that they and their flocks were no longer out of doors at night when December came around!

The Bible reports, however, that shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks on the night of Jesus’ birth. In fact, the Bible writer Luke shows that at that time, shepherds were “living out of doors and keeping watch in the night over their flocks” near Bethlehem. (Luke 2:8-12) Notice that the shepherds were actually living out of doors, not just strolling outside during the day. They had their flocks in the fields at night. Does that description of outdoor living fit the chilly and rainy weather conditions of Bethlehem in December? No, it does not. So the circumstances surrounding Jesus’ birth indicate that he was not born in December.
God’s Word tells us precisely when Jesus died, but it gives little direct indication as to when he was born. This brings to mind King Solomon’s words: “A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth.” (Ecclesiastes 7:1) It is not surprising, then, that the Bible provides many details about Jesus’ ministry and death but few details about the time of his birth.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#5
One of the main problems with Christmas is that the Bible does not say when he was born; but one fact is clear, Jesus was not born in December.

Consider the weather conditions at that time of the year in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. The Jewish month of Chislev (corresponding to November/December) was a month with cold and rainy weather. The month after that was Tebeth (December/January). It saw the lowest temperatures of the year, with occasional snows in the highlands.

The Bible writer Ezra shows that Chislev was indeed a month known for cold and rainy weather. After stating that a crowd had gathered in Jerusalem “in the ninth month [Chislev], on the 20th day of the month,” Ezra reports that people were “shivering . . . because of the heavy rain.” Concerning weather conditions at that time of the year, the congregated people themselves said: “It is the rainy season. It is not possible to stand outside.” (Ezra 10:9, 13; Jeremiah 36:22) No wonder shepherds living in that part of the world made sure that they and their flocks were no longer out of doors at night when December came around!

The Bible reports, however, that shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks on the night of Jesus’ birth. In fact, the Bible writer Luke shows that at that time, shepherds were “living out of doors and keeping watch in the night over their flocks” near Bethlehem. (Luke 2:8-12) Notice that the shepherds were actually living out of doors, not just strolling outside during the day. They had their flocks in the fields at night. Does that description of outdoor living fit the chilly and rainy weather conditions of Bethlehem in December? No, it does not. So the circumstances surrounding Jesus’ birth indicate that he was not born in December.
God’s Word tells us precisely when Jesus died, but it gives little direct indication as to when he was born. This brings to mind King Solomon’s words: “A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth.” (Ecclesiastes 7:1) It is not surprising, then, that the Bible provides many details about Jesus’ ministry and death but few details about the time of his birth.
Flock had to be tended winter or not otherwise wild animals would've killed them. So your point is not conclusive.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#6
My question to those who strongly oppose celebrating Christmas and view it as paganism:

"Do you condemn those who celebrate the birth of Christ during Christmas?"
 
Sep 1, 2018
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#7
Flock had to be tended winter or not otherwise wild animals would've killed them. So your point is not conclusive.

This conclusion is corroborated by another detail in Luke’s Gospel account: “In those days a decree went forth from Caesar Augustus for all the inhabited earth to be registered; (this first registration took place when Quirinius was governor of Syria;) and all people went traveling to be registered, each one to his own city.”—Luke 2:1-3.

Augustus probably ordered this registration as a census in order to gather information for use in connection with taxation and military conscription. To comply with the order, Mary, despite being heavy with child, accompanied her husband, Joseph, on the journey of some 90 miles [150 km] from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Now think about it. Does it seem likely that Augustus—a ruler who rarely interfered with local government—would require a people who were already inclined to revolt to make such a long trip in winter?
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,912
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#8
I would choose not to celebrate it because the commercialism is utterly ridiculous. My wife on the other hand continues to “celebrate” in attempt to perpetuate merriment of Christmases past. Since our children are already overpriviledged it just ends up being an expensive day. I would rather not mingle this pagan celebration with the birth of Christ. It’s disrespectful.
 
Sep 1, 2018
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#9
I would choose not to celebrate it because the commercialism is utterly ridiculous. My wife on the other hand continues to “celebrate” in attempt to perpetuate merriment of Christmases past. Since our children are already overpriviledged it just ends up being an expensive day. I would rather not mingle this pagan celebration with the birth of Christ. It’s disrespectful.

I totally agree---the commercialism in itself turns me away from it. I understand how many though have that festivity culturally embedded into their lives, but the meaning of what it is about has been adulterated.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#10
This conclusion is corroborated by another detail in Luke’s Gospel account: “In those days a decree went forth from Caesar Augustus for all the inhabited earth to be registered; (this first registration took place when Quirinius was governor of Syria;) and all people went traveling to be registered, each one to his own city.”—Luke 2:1-3.

Augustus probably ordered this registration as a census in order to gather information for use in connection with taxation and military conscription. To comply with the order, Mary, despite being heavy with child, accompanied her husband, Joseph, on the journey of some 90 miles [150 km] from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Now think about it. Does it seem likely that Augustus—a ruler who rarely interfered with local government—would require a people who were already inclined to revolt to make such a long trip in winter?
People just exaggerate so that a narrative stands. It doesn't corroborate with:

Dan 9:25“Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

This is precision prophesy which shows that at the end of the 69th week, messiah was to 'come' which essentially means be born. I would choose anything that is towards the end of the year based on this prophesy.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#11
Question: Should we celebrate Christmas or we should not celebrate because it's paganism?
Unfortunately, much of what goes in 'christendom' is paganism . . . why stop at Christmas? Religious icons such as statues, men called fathers but dress like mothers, etc.

A sad example of paganism can be seen in the Philippines where supplicants crawl on their knees over cobblestone streets and crawl up stone steps just to kiss the feet of an idol that they call Christ, but they really owe their affection and loyalty to the 'queen of heaven.'

Or visit during the Easter season and watch young men allow themselves to be hung on a cross to atone for the sins of the past year. (One of these pagans was shot the very next day trying to break into a house in order to steal their goods).

Paganism abounds in the world's view of Christianity.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,782
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#12
My question to those who strongly oppose celebrating Christmas and view it as paganism:

"Do you condemn those who celebrate the birth of Christ during Christmas?"
Naw but I do tell people why. Its on them and God
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#13
The facts are:

Christmas is around the pagan winter solstice, much like there is a summer solstice still celebarted in many places in Scandinavia for example.
Christmas has santa claus, elves, christmas trees (ba'al trees, check out Jeremiah 10:3-4).

The facts also are:
Christians have been celebrating the birth of Jesus during that time for centuries, and you dont need to have the santas and elves.
Even Easter has pagan things attached to it today (easter eggs, fertility symbols, witches etc.) does that mean we cannot celebrate Easter? No.

My point is, we know Christmas has a lot of pagan junk in it, just like every other holiday, but we dont have to include those in our own personal celebration. That is if we want to celebrate at all, this is an optional thing. Nobody should be condemned for days they celebrate according to the Scriptures:


Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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#14
My question to those who strongly oppose celebrating Christmas and view it as paganism:

"Do you condemn those who celebrate the birth of Christ during Christmas?"
Even though this is the lest likely day He was born on, if thats the celebration I don;t see anything pagan about it. However as soon as one adds in the pagan rituals it becomes pagan... It become using pagan rituals to worship the Messiah... Also I don;t deny there are those, but I have never met anyone who celebrates His birth and does not do the pagan rituals. With all that said there are 7 holidays that YHWH ordained that are in Scripture and 100% about the Messiah and His works, but people will slander you if you celebrate or promote them... Oh well... Yahshua never said the world would love His people...
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,782
1,816
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Germany
#15
Even though this is the lest likely day He was born on, if thats the celebration I don;t see anything pagan about it. However as soon as one adds in the pagan rituals it becomes pagan... It become using pagan rituals to worship the Messiah... Also I don;t deny there are those, but I have never met anyone who celebrates His birth and does not do the pagan rituals. With all that said there are 7 holidays that YHWH ordained that are in Scripture and 100% about the Messiah and His works, but people will slander you if you celebrate or promote them... Oh well... Yahshua never said the world would love His people...
Serioulx..christmas is the day Nimrod was supposedly born again.thatd ancient baal worship.
Most things (Christmas trees,wraths,balls,...) comesI from.that.

Saying Christmas isnt pagan is as ignotant as saying hannukah aint jewish.
Don't lie to yourself.
Sorry for my.rant but i get really upset when things dont get called what they are. I dont care what people do and what not, but excusing, ignoring or lying to yourself is a tool of the enemy.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#16
With all that said there are 7 holidays that YHWH ordained that are in Scripture and 100% about the Messiah and His works, but people will slander you if you celebrate or promote them...
Are you talking about the 7 appointed feasts of the old covenant? - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+23&version=NCV

What about the new covenant?

Oh well... Yahshua never said the world would love His people...
You seem to have a martyr complex. :unsure:
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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#17
Are you talking about the 7 appointed feasts of the old covenant? - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+23&version=NCV

What about the new covenant?

You seem to have a martyr complex. :unsure:
The same religion which created and promotes Christmas also preaches that Passover and the other Holy Feast's the Christ created were part of a covenant He destroyed or removed. My study has shown that the God of the Bible didn't create Christmas, and the God of the Bible didn't remove His Holy Days.

I think a man should listen to the God of the Bible.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#18
Are you talking about the 7 appointed feasts of the old covenant? - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+23&version=NCV

What about the new covenant?

You seem to have a martyr complex. :unsure:
Bu-bu-but..... Shamah how do you respond to what MailmanDan said here? Have you actually read Leviticus 23? Do you not see that these feasts include ANIMAL SACRIFICES and BURNT OFFERINGS? Are you going to obey these today? Or are you only going to partially celebrate these feasts?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#19
The same religion which created and promotes Christmas also preaches that Passover and the other Holy Feast's the Christ created were part of a covenant He destroyed or removed. My study has shown that the God of the Bible didn't create Christmas, and the God of the Bible didn't remove His Holy Days.

I think a man should listen to the God of the Bible.
So your study (or your disdain for the Roman Catholic church) has led you to attack Christmas and also to remain under the old covenant? Do you condemn believers who celebrate the birth of Christ during Christmas? You sound like a frustrated man who is having a very difficult time making the transition from the old covenant into the new covenant. :unsure:
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#20
The same religion which created and promotes Christmas also preaches that Passover and the other Holy Feast's the Christ created were part of a covenant He destroyed or removed. My study has shown that the God of the Bible didn't create Christmas, and the God of the Bible didn't remove His Holy Days.

I think a man should listen to the God of the Bible.
I don't celebrate Christmas myself because i don't think it adds or reduces anything in my walk with God. This are very trivial things that people choose to waste time on. Examples:

The sun has been worshiped - can a believer busk in the sun? will they be busking in some other god's/idol's rays?
The moon has been worshiped- can a believer even walk at night under the moon's light?
Mon/Tue/Wed/Thur/Frid/Sat/Sun. Days of the week have pagan origins/ named after pagan gods- can a believer toss away the calendar?

2017AD/2018AD/2019AD. Every time you welcome a new year, you are actually commemorating the so called the birth of Jesus because AD stands for 'the year of our Lord'. Can a believer do away with this kind of system?

So why Christmas and not every other/ so many other things in our life time that are associated with pagans?