Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

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Sep 4, 2012
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#1
Here's another well written article on eternal security. I really like this guy. He's a clear communicator and knows his subject well.

link > Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional? | Apologetics Index

1) God created mankind with free will and in spite of the corruption of mankind in the fall, this ability to choose freely remains.

2) This free will is exercised in the faith choice that passively receives grace. If one changes their faith choice they no longer receive grace.

3) The faith involves justification and sanctification. Faith is evidenced by a godly lifestyle and is inseparable from it as a result of the life changing work that faith receives. Those who rebel against God in a hardened and persistent manner depart from the faith and are no longer Christians.

4) The promises God makes concerning the believer are an assurance that He will not change His saving choice but not a declaration that He will make our faith choice for us in perpetuity.

5) None of the descriptions of believers or their life in Christ speaks of unconditional security.

6) God says that Christians can fall away and He repeatedly warns us not to do so.

We need not live in dread that one day we will slip and “lose” God’s free gift. The New Testament is realistic in observing that we will not achieve sinless perfection until we are glorified with Christ in the next life. This, however, should be of no comfort for those who depart from the faith. Christians are sternly warned not to turn their back on the savior and reject Him through leaving the faith that received Him and His grace to begin with. Only those who continue in the faith continue to receive saving grace.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#2
Romans 5:6-9
King James Version(KJV)

6.)For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7.)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8.)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9.)Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,392
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#3
Here's another well written article on eternal security. I really like this guy. He's a clear communicator and knows his subject well.

link > Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional? | Apologetics Index
1) God created mankind with free will and in spite of the corruption of mankind in the fall, this ability to choose freely remains.

2) This free will is exercised in the faith choice that passively receives grace. If one changes their faith choice they no longer receive grace.

3) The faith involves justification and sanctification. Faith is evidenced by a godly lifestyle and is inseparable from it as a result of the life changing work that faith receives. Those who rebel against God in a hardened and persistent manner depart from the faith and are no longer Christians.

4) The promises God makes concerning the believer are an assurance that He will not change His saving choice but not a declaration that He will make our faith choice for us in perpetuity.

5) None of the descriptions of believers or their life in Christ speaks of unconditional security.

6) God says that Christians can fall away and He repeatedly warns us not to do so.

We need not live in dread that one day we will slip and “lose” God’s free gift. The New Testament is realistic in observing that we will not achieve sinless perfection until we are glorified with Christ in the next life. This, however, should be of no comfort for those who depart from the faith. Christians are sternly warned not to turn their back on the savior and reject Him through leaving the faith that received Him and His grace to begin with. Only those who continue in the faith continue to receive saving grace.
I guess this is a really good point. about free will and all.

Except the phrase is NOT found in the Bible. The reason it is not found in the Bible, is that it puts man in charge of his own salvation. That means everything he says and does can either earn him or lose his salvation. Very sad that a mortal, sinful person is in charge of their own salvation. I'm so glad I don't have to worry about that nonsense.

But if you believe God is sovereign and you actually read the Bible, fortunately, we don't have "free will" where salvation is concerned, and we can trust what God says in both the Old and New Testaments, that he will "never leave or forsake us"

"He will not leave you or forsake you.” Deut. 31:6; Hebrews 13:5
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#4
That's why I always bring up ez18, Heb6, Heb10.. Folks insist otherwise. Scripture is plain if one would read it to read it and let it teach, not read to pick and choose what will compliment false belief.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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#5
........Only those who continue in the faith continue to receive saving grace.
The conclusions in the OP agree with 2 Peter 1 and the warnings not to neglect our part of sanctification, lest we fall. Fall from what? Each reader should let the Lord make certain what that chapter is about. Ignoring Peter's sermon nullifies any belief of other scriptures that promotes automatic or unconditional eternal life.

Exodus 2:7 begins a great promise from God, the basis for willingness of his people to leave Egypt under leadership of Moses. God's people followed, but because of falling back, forsaking faith, all but two of them died in the Sinai wilderness, not receiving the promise. The Old Testament presents many more reports of backsliding resulting in the fall into sin.

The grace of God is provided by way of the shed blood of Jesus, his Son. The only way we can benefit from that grace is to believe the gospel of Christ and repent of sin, and change our mind to follow the Way of salvation. That means to forsake the "Old Man" ways, then accept the responsibilities of the "New Man" Christ makes us to be through faith.
 

RobbyEarl

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2016
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#6
eternal security is true and should be taught as long as your faith is in the work of the cross. this false doctrine of unconditional security is what i said false.
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#7
That's why I always bring up ez18, Heb6, Heb10.. Folks insist otherwise. Scripture is plain if one would read it to read it and let it teach, not read to pick and choose what will compliment false belief.
Hebrews was written to believers. Until you understand and apply that to your study of it you will never understand it correctly.
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#8
eternal security is true and should be taught as long as your faith is in the work of the cross. this false doctrine of unconditional security is what i said false.
[h=1]2 Timothy 2:13[SUP] - [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.[/h]
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#9
That's why I always bring up ez18, Heb6, Heb10.. Folks insist otherwise. Scripture is plain if one would read it to read it and let it teach, not read to pick and choose what will compliment false belief.
Try listening to some verse by verse by J. Vernon McGee and see if his teaching makes sense to you. Context is very important to understanding Hebrews. I hope you'll listen. This is all audio and he covers the whole bible on this site. You can pick certain passages or listen to the whole chapter of any book in the bible.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/mcgee_j_vernon/Hbr/Hebrews.cfm
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#10
But if you believe God is sovereign and you actually read the Bible, fortunately, we don't have "free will" where salvation is concerned, and we can trust what God says in both the Old and New Testaments, that he will "never leave or forsake us"

"He will not leave you or forsake you.” Deut. 31:6; Hebrews 13:5
That verse was spoken specifically to Joshua who had proven himself to be fully faithful. For the fuller context, let's look at this passage which shows that the same is conditioned by obedience. Maybe someone else can find similar scripture to this.

But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. Deuteronomy 4:29-31
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#11
I think we need to actually think about what is said.

Is ETERNAL security conditional?

If it is conditional, It is not eternal.

Eternal means forever, Never-ending, without end, If you are given something, and it never ends, and the owner says it is yours forever, It means he paid for it in full (in fact jesus said made this claim when he hung on the cross, when he said "it is finished" literally interpreted from the Greek tetelesti as "paid in full" then there is nothing you can do to lose it. You can;t even give it back, Because it is yours, righteous person who is honorable and loving would never take it back, Because it is yours.. (especially something so important as eternal life)

Sometimes if we just set aside our biases, and think about what we are saying, the answer will be right in front of us.

 
Nov 22, 2015
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#12
Hebrews 10 has been so mis-interpreted because they have failed to take the context into consideration. If we take a text out of it's context - that text will con you. The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews and talking about the temple sacrifices vs. Christ's sacrifice.

Here is a 22 minute video that explains out Hebrews 10 in context.

[video=youtube;IJ0i7NEYufo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0i7NEYufo[/video]
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#13
That verse was spoken specifically to Joshua who had proven himself to be fully faithful. For the fuller context, let's look at this passage which shows that the same is conditioned by obedience. Maybe someone else can find similar scripture to this.
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. Deuteronomy 4:29-31

Similarly here as well

Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD,
hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

David had said the following to Solomon his son

1 Chr 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind:for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Whereas here in Hebrews its written

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief,
in departing from
the living God.

As departing from the LORD is mentioned here also

Jerm 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed,
And they depart from
me shall be written in the earth,
because
they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.


 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,183
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#14
Hebrews was written to believers. Until you understand and apply that to your study of it you will never understand it correctly.
to add a bit to this if I could, all the N.T. letters were written to believers. not pagans. believers.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#15
I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#16
In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE.

Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

In context, we see in verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.


 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#17
Is grace conditional or unconditional? If you believe it is conditional how can it be grace? If you believe it's conditional how can you be saved?
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#18
Similarly here as well

Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD,
hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

David had said the following to Solomon his son

1 Chr 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind:for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Whereas here in Hebrews its written

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief,
in departing from
the living God.

As departing from the LORD is mentioned here also

Jerm 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed,
And they depart from
me shall be written in the earth,
because
they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.



Hebrews 3:12 in context is talking about the Jews not believing in the Lord Jesus as their Messiah. Brethren is a term used by all Jewish people to each other. This can be seen in Peter and Paul in the book of Acts in multiple places - Acts 2:39 is an example.

The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people ( both believers and non-believers in Christ - remember these letters would be read in the synagogues and meeting places ) and exhorting them to believe in Christ's sacrifice for sin and not to rely on the temple sacrifices.

That's why Hebrews is comparing the priesthood of Christ with Aaron - the temple sacrifices, how Jesus' blood was so much better then the blood of bulls and goats. The author is trying to get the Jews to choose Jesus as their only faith for salvation and not the Old Covenant.

Thank God we have a New Covenant build upon better promises and of Jesus' blood which speaks of better things then the Old Covenant.

We can take scriptures from the Old Covenant and say anything we want but we have a New Covenant now. We must filter all scripture through the finished work of Christ. The cross and resurrection of our Lord changed everything!

Here is an example of quoting an Old Covenant scripture and it is scary IF we don't take into consideration the finished work of Christ for our salvation.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


Looks like we all are doomed! Of course we are not - Jesus trumps this scripture.

All things in the scriptures are truly stated but not all things are a statement of truth. There is a greater truth in what Jesus did for us to obtain an eternal salvation.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#19
In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE.

Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

In context, we see in verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.


Amen...verse 39 shows the difference between the true believers and the unbelievers.

I believe the willful sin in Hebrews 10 is the continuous rejecting of Christ as their Messiah. The only sin talked about in the book of Hebrews before this is said - is the sin of unbelief as Hebrews chapter 3 and 4 talk about
.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#20


Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


Looks like we all are doomed! Of course we are not - Jesus trumps this scripture.

All things in the scriptures are truly stated but not all things are a statement of truth. There is a greater truth in what Jesus did for us to obtain an eternal salvation.
So that wasn't Jesus who spoke to Moses?
 
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