Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
But if you read Dan 12:2 along with that of Jn. 5:29 superficialy one could come to the conclusion you have but read it again it does not say they are raised to life. Sure they are raised but not unto life, just because one sees the word resurrection does not mean they are raised to life. You can look at the rich man and Lazarus as your example but it is a parable. One clue is if it was such great torment then why does God use tormented as in sorrow.
the word "raised" has to be kept in context top who is saying it. John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " Jesus is Speaking .


The realities of hell. And Jesus spoke about them . And they were not parables .

Mat 13:42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 13:50 " and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 25:41 "“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "
Matt 25:46 " “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 " If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. "

When Jesus is speaking HE is the authority on the topic. Jesus said there is a hell , and it is eternal.
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
277
31
28
the word "raised" has to be kept in context top who is saying it. John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " Jesus is Speaking .


The realities of hell. And Jesus spoke about them . And they were not parables .

Mat 13:42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 13:50 " and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 25:41 "“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "
Matt 25:46 " “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 " If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. "

When Jesus is speaking HE is the authority on the topic. Jesus said there is a hell , and it is eternal.
Hell is the grave and yes it is eternal punishment. If you read Mt. 25 it says nothing of the sort that the unsaved will have eternal life again when they die that’s it. Fire in the Bible is usually a reference to that of Judgment and we know the judgement of the unsaved is eternal. [Zech. 13:9, Mat. 3:12]
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
Hell is the grave and yes it is eternal punishment. If you read Mt. 25 it says nothing of the sort that the unsaved will have eternal life again when they die that’s it. Fire in the Bible is usually a reference to that of Judgment and we know the judgement of the unsaved is eternal. [Zech. 13:9, Mat. 3:12]
the word hell can be the grave it depends on the context as to which it is used. The "hell" has many words for the word hell in the Greek . So Hell can be the grave , and it can be discriptive as the trash heap that burned day and night. You have to remember words in the Bible have a systematic range of meaning . Context and other supporting verses, chapters, and books help understand the authorial intent.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
the word "raised" has to be kept in context top who is saying it. John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " Jesus is Speaking .


The realities of hell. And Jesus spoke about them . And they were not parables .

Mat 13:42 "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 13:50 " and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "
Matt 25:41 "“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "
Matt 25:46 " “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 " If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. "

When Jesus is speaking HE is the authority on the topic. Jesus said there is a hell , and it is eternal.
Well said CS1. I would also add for those annihilationist out there, how can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth if an individual is burned up on contact when thrown into the lake of fire as they claim? A weeping and gnashing of teeth would demonstrate the conscious existence of the individual while in the lake of fire. I'm sure that they are looking for or will provide some already existing false apologetic in response to this.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
Well said CS1. I would also add for those annihilationist out there, how can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth if an individual is burned up on contact when thrown into the lake of fire as they claim? A weeping and gnashing of teeth would demonstrate the conscious existence of the individual while in the lake of fire. I'm sure that they are looking for or will provide some already existing false apologetic in response to this.
I agree :) but hey I could be wrong :)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
the word hell can be the grave it depends on the context as to which it is used. The "hell" has many words for the word hell in the Greek . So Hell can be the grave , and it can be discriptive as the trash heap that burned day and night. You have to remember words in the Bible have a systematic range of meaning . Context and other supporting verses, chapters, and books help understand the authorial intent.
A good way to determine what is being spoken of, is that if the word qeber or Mnemeion are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the grave, tomb, sepulcher. If the words Sheol or Hades are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the place of departed spirits, as with the rich man and Lazarus.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
A good way to determine what is being spoken of, is that if the word qeber or Mnemeion are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the grave, tomb, sepulcher. If the words Sheol or Hades are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the place of departed spirits, as with the rich man and Lazarus.
there is another
Gehenna

Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

Matt 5:22
Matt 5:29-30
Matt 7:13

Matt 13:38-42
19 total vereses discribing hell in this context
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
there is another
Gehenna

Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.
Matt 5:22
Matt 5:29-30
Matt 7:13

Matt 13:38-42
19 total vereses discribing hell in this context
Yes, I am aware of Ghehenna, which is referring to the lake of fire. I however was speaking about the words that differentiate between the meaning of grave, tomb and sepulcher vs. Sheol/Hades the place of departed spirits at the time of death. Gehenna/lake of fire cannot be confused in regards to whether it is speaking about the grave/tomb or the place of departed spirits, as it always refers to the final judgment, which is why I didn't include it. My point is that, no one is going to refer to Gehenna/lake of fire as referring to the grave or tomb.
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
277
31
28
the word hell can be the grave it depends on the context as to which it is used. The "hell" has many words for the word hell in the Greek . So Hell can be the grave , and it can be discriptive as the trash heap that burned day and night. You have to remember words in the Bible have a systematic range of meaning . Context and other supporting verses, chapters, and books help understand the authorial intent.
Now when you say authorial intent what do you mean by that ?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
Well said CS1. I would also add for those annihilationist out there, how can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth if an individual is burned up on contact when thrown into the lake of fire as they claim? A weeping and gnashing of teeth would demonstrate the conscious existence of the individual while in the lake of fire. I'm sure that they are looking for or will provide some already existing false apologetic in response to this.
No false apologetic needed...

First, nobody has claimed that people are burnt up on contact when they are tossed into gehenna. Some people may well burn a very long time before they are destroyed. And the weeping and gnashing of teeth can occur as they are being sentenced, as well as after they are thrown into the lake of fire. A lot of people will not like what is happening to them....
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
A good way to determine what is being spoken of, is that if the word qeber or Mnemeion are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the grave, tomb, sepulcher. If the words Sheol or Hades are used, Hebrew and Greek respectively, then the context is referring to the place of departed spirits, as with the rich man and Lazarus.
The entire concept of "the place of departed spirits" stems from Greek mythology. They are the ones that came up with the idea of the "immortal soul", and that the spirit/soul continues to live on after the person does.

It's not true.

The Bible clearly teaches that when a person dies, he is dead in every sense of the word. His thoughts cease, no more work, emotion, he cannot praise God, and more. Jesus taught the parable to the Pharisees in Luke 16 because the Greek belief in the immortal soul had found its way into Jewish thinking of the time, and Jesus was teaching them something according to what they believed, something they could relate to. The point of Jesus' parable is that even if someone was to come back from the dead, people would still not believe. He was right.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
No false apologetic needed...

First, nobody has claimed that people are burnt up on contact when they are tossed into gehenna. Some people may well burn a very long time before they are destroyed. And the weeping and gnashing of teeth can occur as they are being sentenced, as well as after they are thrown into the lake of fire. A lot of people will not like what is happening to them....
please let me try to explain before something is label something false.

hell in the context of the Bible both Old and New have many descriptive words and meanings.
First, note that there is a difference between “hell” and the “lake of fire.


Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times.

Hades is used eleven times

Tartarus,is found once

Gehenna, used twelve times.


All words or description of Hell many of which were given by the Lord Himself. We cannot assume what they mean, we must keep it in context to how it was given also known as the “authorial intent” who said it, who was it said too, and how did they apply it then, and how do we apply it today. = authorial intent.

If you look at the conditions, attributes, and reason for hells existences, you can see what hell is.

hell is a place a literal place an enteral place

Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).


Hell was not made for man

Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)

Hell is conscious torment.

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”

Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”

Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”


Hell is eternal and irreversible.

Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”



Erroneous Views of Hell

Error: The second chance view – After death there is still a way to escape hell.

Answer: “It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).


Error: Universalism – All are eternally saved.


Answer: It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36).


Annihilationism error – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.


Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. ).
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
please let me try to explain before something is label something false.

hell in the context of the Bible both Old and New have many descriptive words and meanings.
First, note that there is a difference between “hell” and the “lake of fire.


Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times.

Hades is used eleven times

Tartarus,is found once

Gehenna, used twelve times.

All words or description of Hell many of which were given by the Lord Himself. We cannot assume what they mean, we must keep it in context to how it was given also known as the “authorial intent” who said it, who was it said too, and how did they apply it then, and how do we apply it today. = authorial intent.
Sheol and hades are "the grave", or the state of being dead.

Tartarus is a prison where spiritual entities are being held, specifically the devil spirits that caused all the evil during the time of Noah (the cause of the Nephilim).

Gehenna is literally "the valley of Hinnom". It was the town dump. It is paralleled with the lake of fire.

If you look at the conditions, attributes, and reason for hells existences, you can see what hell is.

hell is a place a literal place an enteral place

Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).
That's not true. There is no immortal soul, and there will be no place like Dante's Inferno that exists forever.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).

Hell was not made for man

Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10)
"Hell" in those verses is the Lake of fire. Those thrown into it will be burned up. Fire is not a preservative.

Hell is conscious torment.
It will be for awhile, that's for sure. Longer for some than others.

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”

Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”

Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
The fire will not be quenched until everything in it is burned up.

Hell is eternal and irreversible.

Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”
Yes, the second death will be permanent.

Erroneous Views of Hell

Error: The second chance view – After death there is still a way to escape hell.

Answer: “It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
Agreed. There will be no second chances. This life is what will determine one's destiny.

Error: Universalism – All are eternally saved.

Answer: It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36).
Agreed. Universalism is false.

Annihilationism error – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.
That is precisely what will happen.

Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. ).
No it doesn't. Everyone will be resurrected at some point. The unsaved will be thrown into the lake of fire, and destroyed.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
Sheol and hades are "the grave", or the state of being dead.

Tartarus is a prison where spiritual entities are being held, specifically the devil spirits that caused all the evil during the time of Noah (the cause of the Nephilim).

Gehenna is literally "the valley of Hinnom". It was the town dump. It is paralleled with the lake of fire.


That's not true. There is no immortal soul, and there will be no place like Dante's Inferno that exists forever.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).


"Hell" in those verses is the Lake of fire. Those thrown into it will be burned up. Fire is not a preservative.


It will be for awhile, that's for sure. Longer for some than others.


The fire will not be quenched until everything in it is burned up.


Yes, the second death will be permanent.


Agreed. There will be no second chances. This life is what will determine one's destiny.


Agreed. Universalism is false.


That is precisely what will happen.


No it doesn't. Everyone will be resurrected at some point. The unsaved will be thrown into the lake of fire, and destroyed.

Annihilationism error – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.

I see you removed that and you are wrong :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,418
4,091
113
Sheol and hades are "the grave", or the state of being dead.

Tartarus is a prison where spiritual entities are being held, specifically the devil spirits that caused all the evil during the time of Noah (the cause of the Nephilim).

Gehenna is literally "the valley of Hinnom". It was the town dump. It is paralleled with the lake of fire.


That's not true. There is no immortal soul, and there will be no place like Dante's Inferno that exists forever.

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).


"Hell" in those verses is the Lake of fire. Those thrown into it will be burned up. Fire is not a preservative.


It will be for awhile, that's for sure. Longer for some than others.


The fire will not be quenched until everything in it is burned up.


Yes, the second death will be permanent.


Agreed. There will be no second chances. This life is what will determine one's destiny.


Agreed. Universalism is false.


That is precisely what will happen.


No it doesn't. Everyone will be resurrected at some point. The unsaved will be thrown into the lake of fire, and destroyed.
what I also notice you did not prove any Biblical support to the 17 verses you opnly made comments as to what you think they mean .
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
what I also notice you did not prove any Biblical support to the 17 verses you opnly made comments as to what you think they mean .
Verses have been given before. They were ignored before, and would probably be ignored again.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
[...]


Annihilationism error – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.



Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. ).
If we do cease to exist in death (i.e. are annihilated) that doesn't necessarily mean the Most High can't resurrect us. For instance, those who are called and chosen to be conformed to the image of the Son were known by him before they existed, so there's nothing preventing the Most High from redoing what he first did, especially since nothing material is needed for the living God to create.


Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that things that are made did not come from anything that can be seen.

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..."


...and if resurrection is uniquely in the power of the Most High, all he would have to do is himself remember who existed.

Malachi 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.


Scripture details several books opening at the judgment. One book is a record of deeds (as scripture explains), which - in a way - IS a book of remembrance, and then the book of life is mentioned separately.

Revelation 20:21
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


So I feel it's well within the realm of possibility for the living God to resurrect a person from non-existence, completely who they were at the moment of their death.