Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

MarkWilliams · Jun 20, 2018

Thank you for that prayer, it was very humbling to read.
It's always good to be reminded of who we are and who God is, that quickly brings us to repentance and faith.
Every single moment we live is a gift and a demonstration of Gods mercy towards us sinners. He freely gave us everything we have, including a great salvation from our sins.
There's no place for pride or boasting of any sort in the life of a Christian. We have been commanded to love one another, regardless of how holy or unholy we may appear to be. If anyone confesses faith in Christ and believes every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, then they are our brother or sister and we must love them even if we don't agree with everything they say.

Ahwatukee · Jun 20, 2018

preston39 said:

Hi Preston39,

Please include the poster and post that you are replying to. When you just post a response, no one can tell who it is directed at. Thanks!

AlanFinch · Aug 15, 2018

My name is Alan Finch. I became a Christian 42 years ago. When I had been a Christian for approximately 38 years, I began to realize that the Scriptures do not validate "eternal torment" in "Hellfire."

“WOW,” I was taught and believed that multitudes upon multitudes of humans will suffer “eternal torment” for 100 trillion years, and then another 100 trillion years, and then another 100 trillion years, and it goes on and on with no hope of it ever ending. I am certain that each one of us, deep inside of our very being, know that something just does not add up, but we just can't quite figure out what is it that we are not understanding correctly from the Scriptures.

The true biblical teaching is neither the traditional Christian view of hell, nor the view of annihilation. Our great God is neither a great torturer nor a great annihilator, but He is the great Saviour of the world.

The mystery of the finished work of Christ on the Cross will one day reveal the perfect plan of God for the entire human race, which does not include “eternal torment” or “eternal annihilation” for one single person!

I have written an article upon this topic, but it is much too lengthy to post on this site (26 pages). Below is a sample. If anyone would like a copy in it's original Word Document Format, feel free to e-mail me and request a copy, and I will e-mail you a copy.

[email protected]

………. What is the “GOOD NEWS” of the Gospel of Christ? ……….
(Re-examining the widely held belief of “eternal torment” in “Hellfire”)

My purpose for this writing is to Biblically “expound” upon (1) is there really going to be “eternal torment?” (2) is there really going to be “eternal annihilation?” (3) to give a Biblical answer to the question “If there is no “eternal torment,” and if there is no “eternal annihilation” of our very being, then what are we being saved from, and what is our being here during this present time on earth really all about?”

I was a Christian for 38 years before I gained a better Scriptural understanding of some Biblical truths that I had not properly understood in regards to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

Ahwatukee · Aug 16, 2018

AlanFinch said:

Greetings AlanFinch,

First of all, what you are teaching is a complete lie of the devil. If you have come to the conclusion that there is no eternal, conscious, separation from God in the lake of fire, then your have not done a complete study on this subject. Your exegesis is flawed. For scripture does indeed teach that punishment in the lake of fire as being separation from God in torment in flame. The consequences are the results of sin against a Holy, righteous and eternal God. All that has happened, is that you have been deceived by the false teaching of annihilationism.

"And a third angel followed them, calling out in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest Day and night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

As the scripture above reveals, the punishment for those who worship the beast, his image and for those who receive his mark, will be God's wrath poured out without mercy mixed in. It states that they will be "tormented" in the presence of the angels and of the Lamb. The context also states that, those who do so, the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have "no rest, day or night." These are pretty self explanatory and the concept is straight forward and easy to understand. Consider the following:

"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The above is in reference to the judgment of the sheep and the goats, which will take place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Regarding this, you have the word "aionios" which is derived from "Aion" which can refer to "an age, a cycle of time or having no beginning or ending." In the verse above, you have the same word used to describe the results for both the wicked and the righteous and therefore must carry the same meaning for both. That said, since we know that the "eternal life" is on-going conscious existence in the kingdom of God, then "eternal punishment" must also be on-going conscious existence in separation from God. To be clearer, the word "aionios" cannot mean annihilation for one group and then mean on-going conscious existence for the other group.

Both life and death are states of never-ending conscious existence, which are determined by an individuals relationship with God. For those who believe in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. For those who reject Christ, they will be held accountable for their own sins. For all sin must be accounted for. There is not scripture that teaches or even alludes to annihilation. But the supporting words within the contexts on this subject makes it clear that separation from God under punishment is everlasting, forever and ever, no rest day or night, with the smoke of their torment rising up forever and ever.

Also, the "finished work of Christ" applies only to those who have faith in him. Whoever has the Son has life, whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet are also tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The scriptures above also demonstrate on-going eternal punishment for Satan, the beast and the false prophet.

We have the event of the rich man and Lazarus as an example of on-going punishment in Sheol/Hades, which is a temporary place of punishment in flame where the spirits of all of the unrighteous dead reside until the great white throne judgment takes place. Of course, because of your teaching, I'm sure that you would be one of those who have to interpret it as a parable in order to get rid of the truth.

All that you are doing by this teaching, is aiding in the spread of Satan's lies in these last days.

Ahwatukee · Aug 16, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

Greetings AlanFinch,

First of all, what you are teaching is a complete lie of the devil. If you have come to the conclusion that there is no eternal, conscious, separation from God in the lake of fire, then your have not done a complete study on this subject. Your exegesis is flawed. For scripture does indeed teach that punishment in the lake of fire as being separation from God in torment in flame. The consequences are the results of sin against a Holy, righteous and eternal God. All that has happened, is that you have been deceived by the false teaching of annihilationism.

"And a third angel followed them, calling out in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest Day and night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

As the scripture above reveals, the punishment for those who worship the beast, his image and for those who receive his mark, will be God's wrath poured out without mercy mixed in. It states that they will be "tormented" in the presence of the angels and of the Lamb. The context also states that, those who do so, the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have "no rest, day or night." These are pretty self explanatory and the concept is straight forward and easy to understand. Consider the following:

"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The above is in reference to the judgment of the sheep and the goats, which will take place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Regarding this, you have the word "aionios" which is derived from "Aion" which can refer to "an age, a cycle of time or having no beginning or ending." In the verse above, you have the same word used to describe the results for both the wicked and the righteous and therefore must carry the same meaning for both. That said, since we know that the "eternal life" is on-going conscious existence in the kingdom of God, then "eternal punishment" must also be on-going conscious existence in separation from God. To be clearer, the word "aionios" cannot mean annihilation for one group and then mean on-going conscious existence for the other group.

Both life and death are states of never-ending conscious existence, which are determined by an individuals relationship with God. For those who believe in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. For those who reject Christ, they will be held accountable for their own sins. For all sin must be accounted for. There is not scripture that teaches or even alludes to annihilation. But the supporting words within the contexts on this subject makes it clear that separation from God under punishment is everlasting, forever and ever, no rest day or night, with the smoke of their torment rising up forever and ever.

Also, the "finished work of Christ" applies only to those who have faith in him. Whoever has the Son has life, whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet are also tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The scriptures above also demonstrate on-going eternal punishment for Satan, the beast and the false prophet.

We have the event of the rich man and Lazarus as an example of on-going punishment in Sheol/Hades, which is a temporary place of punishment in flame where the spirits of all of the unrighteous dead reside until the great white throne judgment takes place. Of course, because of your teaching, I'm sure that you would be one of those who have to interpret it as a parable in order to get rid of the truth.

All that you are doing by this teaching, is aiding in the spread of Satan's lies in these last days.

Correction, you have not been deceived by annihilationism, because you have stated in your post that you do not believe in that also. However, you are deceived in not believing what scripture states regarding eternal punishment for sin against a Holy, righteous and eternal God.

Rastus · Aug 16, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

Hi Mark, I'm sorry to hear about your brother, I too lost a brother many years ago, but I would like to make mention of an uncle I lost some years back. He was a man's man with no thought of God in his life unfortunately, but I was impressed by what the minister conducting the funeral said, it went something like this "Did he go to Heaven? We can't know the answer to this, but we can hope." We don't know what happened in his final moments. Did he call on the name of the Lord? We can hope.
Now regarding the eternal fire of hell, yes, I believe the fire is eternal, but I don't believe the suffering is. I think of the parable of the wheat and chaff, and the chaff was reaped with the harvest and then separated and destroyed. There is also the verse that warns us to fear Him Who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell fire.
I believe that those who are lost will be destroyed, not punished for eternity.
God bless
www.all4god.net

pottersclay · Aug 16, 2018

Suicide......if God knows the end from the beginning I am sure he has made prevision for it.
We are all made from the same dirt so we are all capable of it. I lost my brother as well.
Some say it is weakness....some say strength. But all have a breaking point. And the Lord knows we are just clay.
My heart goes out to all that have loss in this matter. It's so hurtful....so devastating.
When my neice drown at the age of three I began to wonder what would happen to her. She didn't know Christ she was to young to understand. The scriptures pointed to the age of accountability. Which led me to believe that in all instances of life God has made prevision.
Shall we judge a fellow saint at his lowest point and say he is not worthy of God's mercy and love?
As some has stated here ...only God knows....let's just be compassionate for the cause and leave it at that.

Potter

garee · Aug 16, 2018

The dead know nothing. They feel no pain. The unbelievers temporal spirit returns to the Father of spirits while their flesh and blood returns to the dust .They will not rise to new incorruptible spirit life on the last day. The eternal punishment.

Scripture define hell as a living suffering.

preston39 · Aug 16, 2018

AlanFinch said:

A...,

You have reached a wrong conclusion from people's writings ..I would conclude....instead of from scriptures.

I urge you to test your conclusion with scripture study.

Ahwatukee · Aug 16, 2018

Rastus said:

Hello Rastus,

First of all, I agree with you in that, we don't know what is in a persons heart prior to death. They could have indeed called upon the name of the Lord in the last moment. However, the key to understanding the meaning of the use of the word "destroyed" requires going to the source. Depending on the scripture, it could be the words "apoleia, apollumi or olethros" none of which infer annihilation or extinction. God means exactly what he says regarding this issue. When king David sinned by committing adultery, murder and attempting to cover up his crime, he recognized who his sin was against when he said "Against you alone have I sinned." Therefore, all sin is against a Holy, righteous and eternal God and that is why the consequences are eternal.

Both life and death are eternal states of existence: life being on-going, conscious existence in the kingdom of God and death being on-going, conscious existence in separation from God in the lake of fire.

The reference to "everlasting fire" is in reference to those who will suffer that fate. Everlasting, forever and ever, eternal punishment, all mean what they say. The problem is that, in these last days Satan is attacking every truth of God's word and unfortunately has found a foot-hold with so-called Christians to spread these lies. We can see this with those who say there is no gathering of the church, or that the church will be gathered after God's wrath, that there is no thousand year reign of Christ, that everyone is saved and that there is no punishment, no hell, no lake of fire, etc., etc. These are all lies initiating from Satan and the powers of darkness.

Regarding this, believe what the scriptures say regarding this issue and every Biblical topic, otherwise it is a distortion of the God's word.

TheDivineWatermark · Aug 16, 2018

Is the OP (or others) thinking that the beast and the false prophet (who it says were "[these two were] cast alive into" the lake of fire, Rev19:20) and then later "the devil also" (Rev20:10), where it then states, "and they will be tormented day and night for/unto [eis] the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]," that these are the only three who will ever be there "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" ? [which elsewhere in Scripture means "forever," or "eternity," such as in 2Tim4:18, Gal1:5, Rev4:9, and others]

preston39 · Aug 16, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

A...,
Scriptures tell us that there will be great deceptions in the end times and .......we are here.

One of the test I use to confirm new deceptions is this;

Currently, many argue that OSAS, no baptism necessary, distortion of specific language of the Bible, spinning of G-d's word, saved before G-d passes judgement, etc., are all new bible interpretations since the moral and social rebellion/revolution in the 1960's....with the decay and downturn accelerating.

One can argue opinion...but, no one can argue facts.

pjharrison · Aug 16, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

Luke 16:22-31
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

garee · Aug 17, 2018

Ahwatukee said:

Hell is clearly define as a "living work" of suffering. We can see that using Jonas and the Son of man, Jesus

Twice it is mentioned that God did hear his voice and on the third day gave him rest from it

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

The metaphor heart of earth is the same as the belly of the whale.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet

The beginning of the birth pains the three day work of living suffering of Christ, a living hell

And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy; And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.Mark 14:33-35

The father heard him sent angel to give Jesus rest.

Or the curse as the mark of Cain, the mark of unconverted man who refused to believe God (no faith) at the cost of no sabbath rest from his works. His life a living hell was more than Cain could bear .Again a rest that comes from Christ who did bear the punishment for the believers.

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:10-15

No death instant death penalty. The suffering the pangs of hell was that which was chosen as the curse

Those who have not been born again will not rise to new incorruptible spirit life on the last day, the eternal punishment.

When they die their temporal corrupted spirit returns to our Father in heaven who gives it .Their corrupted flesh and blood returns to the dust. The dead know nothing suffering is for the living. We can suffer for doing what is commanded or suffer for unbelief (no f faith) But suffering is the labor of all fallen mankind .It began in the garden when God corrupted the first creation.

Deade · Aug 17, 2018

God’s Memorials

Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:

Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?

All this speculation about the fate of all unbelievers is moot. Even professing Christians that do not have the Holy Spirit, have no chance to serve God. Only the participants of the first resurrection have any chance of ruling with Christ.

There are many morally good people in the world, but unless our Father draws them into His fold: they will never understand God's word and His plan. We don't have to worry about anyone being tormented in flames forever. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Everybody sins and everybody pays. This is physical death. The dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto—it is morning. It is the same principal.

God's promise to resurrect "the rest of the dead" in Rev. 20 will be the first and only chance these that were not called in the first life will have. That is when they will have their chance to overcome Satan and his fallen army. This will be Satan's last act. When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.

Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.

preston39 · Aug 17, 2018

Deade said:

......Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?

Why such reaction? That is symbolic of an element of torment which never ceases.

................... We don't have to worry about anyone being tormented in flames forever. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Everybody sins and everybody pays. This is physical death.

Wrong. Suggest you re visit that thinking.
If that were a proper interpretation then we would all be dead. So let us put it into perspective.
That refers to the 2nd death...spiritual death....not physical death...........

D....,

We must keep physical death (of these earthly bodies) and spiritual death (Soul) in context as we discern scriptures. Otherwise, we can get miss led by scriptures.

preston39 · Aug 17, 2018

timed out...

Your reaction is dramatic;....Re; worm...........why wouldn't you have the same concern about the fire that never dies out? Both are symbols of ...forever.

CherieR · Aug 18, 2018

Here is a video that may be helpful. I don't believe suicide is unforgiveable and many people who try to commit it regret trying to. It is never the right answer. There is always hope in life but many depressed people can feel hopeless.

I used to believe strongly in a fire and brimstone hell, now I just don't know for sure what hell is like. I heard there is different degrees of punishment. People will be judged according to their works. For me, the idea of everyone burning in fire who are not saved, just does not make sense to me. I don't know what it is like. I think it will be different for different people.

TMS · Aug 18, 2018

No
No eternal torture.
No fire that will burn people forever.
God is love.
The devil whats us to think that the soul will not surely die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
I want to do a study on this subject but it would require several paragraphs. i'll just sum it up. The dead know nothing and the day of punishment is in the future.
second death... If people do not die, than it can not be called the second death. If people are raised and never die again it isn't a second death.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

preston39 · Aug 18, 2018

TMS said:

No
No eternal torture.
No fire that will burn people forever.
God is love.
The devil whats us to think that the soul will not surely die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
I want to do a study on this subject but it would require several paragraphs. i'll just sum it up. The dead know nothing and the day of punishment is in the future.
second death... If people do not die, than it can not be called the second death. If people are raised and never die again it isn't a second death.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

T...,

Wrong.
Where did you get that NEW AGE religion conclusion from?...not The Bible.

We have no authority to attempt to change The Bible or G-d's intent of scriptures.
There is no PC in scriptures. It says what t says.

Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

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