Is it Biblically permissive to beat one's wife?

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TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
LOL!

I think you were just being sensational and you got the responses that went along with that. :sneaky:

basically, click bait. never said it was 'wrong' though. you can post whatever you want as long as the mods accept it
It is a real book by those false teachers.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,176
1,573
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68
Brighton, MI
Who would read such trash?
I hate to say it, it is the men of the Christian Domestic Discipline cult.

1 John 3:10
New Revised Standard Version
10 The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her Ephesians 5:25

Christ does not beat up on believers, nor slap, hit or verbally and emotionally abuse them

maybe renew your mind as scripture says that we should and then your 'studies' will look a little less 'acceptable'



that says it all. YOU do not like the simple answer which is NO
The point is that it says husbands agape your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. It doesn’t say husbands do not physically punish your wives. I agree we shouldn’t. It’s not because I read it in the Bible. Scripturally there is laws for everything including how far you can walk on the Sabbath, how much you can beat a slave, the inheritance rights of children born to sex slaves, and even beastiality. What it doesn’t have a Law for is, beating your wife. I would assume that beastiality is less common than spousal abuse and more obviously unacceptable. Why is it not mentioned? This is the issue. No Christian should want to beat anyone. The question isn’t, should you? The question is, whether there is language against it. For the record there is not specific language saying DON’T. There is only conjecture that we shouldn’t because it is what we deem “unloving”.

Side bar about the verse you quoted about Christ loving the church: that could be turned around. The church accepts Christ as Lord and becomes one as His Body, His Bride. Those who are fake, who claim in name to be His, with no love in their hearts. Them goats He cast into the lake of fire. This is not promoting violence, merely adding perspective.
 
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I agree with you in part we are to have an application of scripture yet all scripture was written in a time frame NOT like ours today. All scripture was written to the people of God on the day it was said. All scripture today is for us in the proper context and applying it correctly God confirms it. That being said the word of God in context to moral respectful treatment of women is well seen in the bible yet all are suffering from the fall of man because of sin which is the same thing destroying men and women today as it did on day one of the fall.

Please don't get mad because you have used secular humanism to explain biblical truths and were called on it.
I do not get angry. There is no purpose in it. I have no problem applying logic to Scripture and Scripture to logic. They coexist synergistically. The problem is when there is a discrepancy and you dismiss Scripture to accept the academic agenda. Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Is the husband the arbiter who decides whether or not his wife is conforming to the Word? No Christian wife should be willing to be physically abused by her husband for any reason whatsoever.
'Willing to be abused'? how common is that. If you were a Christian wife in Saudi Arabia with a Muslim husband and Muslim family members, you might not have any choice. That might have been the case for some of the women in Grecco-Roman culture in the past, also. The question I raised was whether suffering as a Christian in a marriage is commendable before God. We should not try to take that away from an abused spouse in this situation.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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The point is that it says husbands agape your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. It doesn’t say husbands do not physically punish your wives. I agree we shouldn’t. It’s not because I read it in the Bible. Scripturally there is laws for everything including how far you can walk on the Sabbath, how much you can beat a slave, the inheritance rights of children born to sex slaves, and even beastiality. What it doesn’t have a Law for is, beating your wife. I would assume that beastiality is less common than spousal abuse and more obviously unacceptable. Why is it not mentioned? This is the issue. No Christian should want to beat anyone. The question isn’t, should you? The question is, whether there is language against it. For the record there is not specific language saying DON’T. There is only conjecture that we shouldn’t because it is what we deem “unloving”.

Side bar about the verse you quoted about Christ loving the church: that could be turned around. The church accepts Christ as Lord and becomes one as His Body, His Bride. Those who are fake, who claim in name to be His, with no love in their hearts. Them goats He cast into the lake of fire. This is not promoting violence, merely adding perspective.
Ephesians 5
28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
(NKJV)

Do you beat yourself, too?
 
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common sense and the rest of the text tells any honest person that "forced adultery " is in fact rape. nice try. What is your correction for the other statements I made?

25 “But if a man finds an engaged girl out in the field and forces her to have sexual relations with him, only the man must die. 26 You must do nothing to the girl. She did nothing that deserves the punishment of death. This is like someone attacking their neighbor and killing them. 27 The man found the engaged girl out in the field and attacked her. Maybe she called for help, but there was no one to help her.
I didn’t say it wasn’t rape. I said that’s not why he would be put to death. If it’s a maiden, and not betrothed, then her father has the choice to give her in marriage to the rapist. Or, her father can accept payment from him probably because he won’t marry her off after that.
 
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Ephesians 5
28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
(NKJV)

Do you beat yourself, too?
I don’t hit myself, but yes my body has been refined by “abuse” to become a vessel of great servitude. My flesh obeys me, and I submit it to the Lord. What the Lord has asked me to tolerate is great abuse, but I allow it because He shows me the product of my suffering. It doesn’t mean I desire to hit my wife. There is no purpose in it. I accept the discipline of God because I am a disciple. My wife is not my disciple so the suffering would not teach, only hurt.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,775
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Try copying and paste the text into a notepad, then copy and paste from there into a reply box.
I was simply explaining how the mix-up happened ;)

I am not interested in quoting those posts (there were a number of them).

Doing what you suggest would solve nothing without removing text and fixing the quote tags.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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risks? try 'submitting' to a person who thinks hitting his wife is the 'Christian' thing to do. that, is what I would consider uncomfortable and so would the woman being hit or slapped or whatever. and by the way, verbal and emotional abuse is also used as a method for control...because that is what is really going on. a man doing that to his wife is not acting as a husband but rather someone who views his wife as chattel
There are wives who are abusive also, verbally, and those who hit their husbands. Some people think of this sort of thing as a subject for comedy, but it must be difficult for men taught not to hit women, to have a woman hitting him whenever she gets mad. I read a post from a man whose ex-wife would hit him to wake him up in the middle of the night and crazy stuff like that. Even if she is much smaller than he is, it can be a dangerous situation. Men sleep, too, and there are knives in the kitchen. Anyway, my point is it goes both ways.

As far as my 'risks' comments, I made it clear earlier that I was talking about the idea of ultimatums about going to counselors in general, not the abuse topic.


did not read further. this is not what is being discussed. you go from your own wife to a woman in Saudi Arabia. this is commonly called a 'false dilemma'. we are talking about so called Christians hitting their wives. NOT an abusive Saudi man who is not a Christian.
II Peter 3 mentions husbands who do not obey the word, which includes unbelievers.

comparing slave ownership to a marriage is not the point? It pretty much is the point since you introduced it. get serious
Why don't you address the actual points made in the post if you are going to reply, instead of obfuscating the issues with comments like this?

next, you go into a long ramble about other cultures and try to reason from that aspect. this is really not a complicated thread. The question was this:
If you consider a comment to be rambling, you do not have to reply.

Is it Biblically permissive to beat one's wife?
A lot of other subpoints show up in conversations like these. It's how conversations work. Otherwise people would just post 'yes' or 'no' and that would be it.

I know why submission comes up and much of the time it is misused, abused and loving the wife is not even mentioned
Can you find one thread on this forum where wives submitting to husbands is mentioned, but husbands loving their wives is not? People read that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and no one objects. But there are often negative comments and backlash when the subject of wives submitting to husbands is mentioned.

that's nice. were you hitting or beating your wife or vice versa? no? all marriages will experience conflict. abuse is another matter

addressing abuse in general and not you hitting your wife. don't try that on. I don't bite
Suggesting someone may beat their wife, children, their dog, is a homosexual, or other stigmatized behavior, is often not appreciated.

below is what I addressed my comment to:

I think you probably understood what I was actually saying.
[/quote]

And nothing is quoted for what you addressed your comments to. I'm not reading up the thread for it. The forum cuts off imbedded quotes like that. You have to insert them manually.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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frankly, it truly irks me that someone would think it is commendable to submit under abuse.
I Peter 2
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
(NKJV)

So, do you not think first century slaves enduring persecution in a domestic violence situation was not commendable before God no matter what the Bible says?

What about martyrs? Was what Stephen suffered commendable? Did Peter's death glorify God like the book of John says? What do you think about Jesus dying on the cross?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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I didn’t say it wasn’t rape. I said that’s not why he would be put to death. If it’s a maiden, and not betrothed, then her father has the choice to give her in marriage to the rapist. Or, her father can accept payment from him probably because he won’t marry her off after that.
This seems to fit the passage, except I do not know that the woman would not have been married for life. What would she do when her fad dies?

Sex with a betrothed with someone besides the betrothed virgin carried the death penalty like adultery. If it was consensual both were worthy of death. If a man raped a virgin betrothed to another man, only he was worthy of death.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I do not get angry. There is no purpose in it. I have no problem applying logic to Scripture and Scripture to logic. They coexist synergistically. The problem is when there is a discrepancy and you dismiss Scripture to accept the academic agenda. Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to.

you forget your own post in #17 where you said:

"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "

human logic and biblical application are not coe-equal. And you are wrong about dismissing scripture to accept an academic agenda, yet you are doing the same thing you claim I and others do. human reason and scripture do not synergistically coexist, the carnal mind must surrender to the Holy Spirit and be renewed by the word of God to receive the mind of Christ.

You said every bit of belief you have is justified by scripture and not opposed to it, if that is true where did your understanding of scripture?
 
Nov 26, 2012
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you forget your own post in #17 where you said:

"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "

human logic and biblical application are not coe-equal. And you are wrong about dismissing scripture to accept an academic agenda, yet you are doing the same thing you claim I and others do. human reason and scripture do not synergistically coexist, the carnal mind must surrender to the Holy Spirit and be renewed by the word of God to receive the mind of Christ.

You said every bit of belief you have is justified by scripture and not opposed to it, if that is true where did your understanding of scripture?
Are you saying that we do not respond in the same way as many mammals? Are you denying that some women do get sexually stimulated by being disciplined? You have made yourself clear, life doesn’t exist outside of the Bible for you. I got it. We are spirit and flesh. Deny it all you want.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Are you saying that we do not respond in the same way as many mammals? Are you denying that some women do get sexually stimulated by being disciplined? You have made yourself clear, life doesn’t exist outside of the Bible for you. I got it. We are spirit and flesh. Deny it all you want.
What I am pointing out is what you said at this point of posting:

"Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to."

But your original post contradicts the above statement

"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "

The Word of God says we are not created to respond the same way as Mammals. it was the fall of man that brought perversion into the world. Man was created for God's good pleasure to rule the earth God entrusted them with. it is not that life doesn't exist outside the bible as you suggest one thinks, what I believe the word of God says is the fallen world will not produce LIFE or eternal life.

The flesh is not saved it will die. it is not that I am denying the fact women who were abused over a time period as men see stimulation in sexual abuse, do you not see that as an abnormal reaction to being abused? Instead of dealing with abuse as a wrong you see as one should embrace it because eventually you will be overcome by the abuse and enjoy it. Like all addictions and stronghold there is pleasure in the sin, yet you failed to address the torment of the sin.

  • the dissatisfaction and emptiness after sexual act is done
  • the loneliness
  • anger and regret
  • depression and coe -dependency
  • lack of self-worth

Yet that is all ok with you as long as a woman has sexual stimulation from the spanking.

You are not looking at it from a biblical Christ-like position. Most don't have pride, anger, selfishness, and perverted hearts.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
The point is that it says husbands agape your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. It doesn’t say husbands do not physically punish your wives. I agree we shouldn’t. It’s not because I read it in the Bible. Scripturally there is laws for everything including how far you can walk on the Sabbath, how much you can beat a slave, the inheritance rights of children born to sex slaves, and even beastiality. What it doesn’t have a Law for is, beating your wife. I would assume that beastiality is less common than spousal abuse and more obviously unacceptable. Why is it not mentioned? This is the issue. No Christian should want to beat anyone. The question isn’t, should you? The question is, whether there is language against it. For the record there is not specific language saying DON’T. There is only conjecture that we shouldn’t because it is what we deem “unloving”.

Side bar about the verse you quoted about Christ loving the church: that could be turned around. The church accepts Christ as Lord and becomes one as His Body, His Bride. Those who are fake, who claim in name to be His, with no love in their hearts. Them goats He cast into the lake of fire. This is not promoting violence, merely adding perspective.
you have a real problem mister

you cannot accept the fact that normal women do not care to be abused and normal men do not care to abuse them

no. you cannot turn that verse in scripture around. what a notion! LOL!

you need to read more Bible and less anti-God literature put out by God hating researchers who interpret the material like any good evolutionist who thinks their great great great(add a bunch more greats) granddaddy was a monkey

there is no issue. I would say shame on you, but that sounds childish. the shame is in you determining your course of action by the world.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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you have a real problem mister

you cannot accept the fact that normal women do not care to be abused and normal men do not care to abuse them

no. you cannot turn that verse in scripture around. what a notion! LOL!

you need to read more Bible and less anti-God literature put out by God hating researchers who interpret the material like any good evolutionist who thinks their great great great(add a bunch more greats) granddaddy was a monkey

there is no issue. I would say shame on you, but that sounds childish. the shame is in you determining your course of action by the world.
Clearly you have read very little of any of my posts. Way to jump in swinging in the eleventh hour.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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What I am pointing out is what you said at this point of posting:

"Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to."

But your original post contradicts the above statement

"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "

The Word of God says we are not created to respond the same way as Mammals. it was the fall of man that brought perversion into the world. Man was created for God's good pleasure to rule the earth God entrusted them with. it is not that life doesn't exist outside the bible as you suggest one thinks, what I believe the word of God says is the fallen world will not produce LIFE or eternal life.

The flesh is not saved it will die. it is not that I am denying the fact women who were abused over a time period as men see stimulation in sexual abuse, do you not see that as an abnormal reaction to being abused? Instead of dealing with abuse as a wrong you see as one should embrace it because eventually you will be overcome by the abuse and enjoy it. Like all addictions and stronghold there is pleasure in the sin, yet you failed to address the torment of the sin.

  • the dissatisfaction and emptiness after sexual act is done
  • the loneliness
  • anger and regret
  • depression and coe -dependency
  • lack of self-worth

Yet that is all ok with you as long as a woman has sexual stimulation from the spanking.

You are not looking at it from a biblical Christ-like position. Most don't have pride, anger, selfishness, and perverted hearts.
I don’t think you even read my posts. Your arguments are extremely off base. Do you see many mammals spanking each other? We respond to reproduction cues steered by our hormones. You can’t
possibly understand humans only based on what you read in the Bible. Dude think what you want about me. The flesh has programming. If you ignore that there is programming then you eliminate the chance of fighting spiritual warfare in the carnal realm. I have not and do not think physical abuse is recommended. All I have stated was that Scripturally it doesn’t speak against it directly. I’m done trying to defend myself against your unfounded accusations. Why don’t you look up being a false witness. You have other posters chiming in based on your ridiculous arguments. Keep it up and you will be reported.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,003
4,315
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I don’t think you even read my posts. Your arguments are extremely off base. Do you see many mammals spanking each other? We respond to reproduction cues steered by our hormones. You can’t
possibly understand humans only based on what you read in the Bible. Dude think what you want about me. The flesh has programming. If you ignore that there is programming then you eliminate the chance of fighting spiritual warfare in the carnal realm. I have not and do not think physical abuse is recommended. All I have stated was that Scripturally it doesn’t speak against it directly. I’m done trying to defend myself against your unfounded accusations. Why don’t you look up being a false witness. You have other posters chiming in based on your ridiculous arguments. Keep it up and you will be reported.

No, I have clearly responded to your criticism. And I have clearly quoted you too. You have no biblical refusing of the thing I addressed in the post you just responded to which you mocked in a different post.