Is It Possible To Backslide

[eternally-gratefull]

But everybody has been given faith by God, the scripture says so.

Oh, So a person who says no to God, says he does not even believe in God has faith in God? Where was the faith of the pharisee when God sent his messiah to them?

ps...That passage speaks of spiritual gifts given to the church, Not to everyone..

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Once a person believes into Jesus the following applies........


New Living Translation
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.

English Standard Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.

Berean Study Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Berean Literal Bible
if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He is not able to deny Himself.

New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

King James Bible
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Like that Many versions, Same message,,

Once saved, if we are faithless, he remains faithful. Because for him to take something that was based ON HIS WORK, ON HIS PROMISE, ON HIS LOVE, ON HIS WORD, would cause him to have to deny his self. then could he ever be trusted?

Hebrews 4: 11[TABLE="align: center"]
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Parallel Verses​

New International Version​

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

New Living Translation​

So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.

English Standard Version​

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

Berean Study Bible​

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

Berean Literal Bible​

Therefore we should be diligent to enter into that rest, so that no one should fall by the same example of disobedience.

New American Standard Bible ​

Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

[/TD]
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I guess God doesn't change after all. It's much easier to figure out God's word when we read all of it.

 

[Stephen63]

The best lies have mostly truth in them. The serpent taught us how easy it is to take truth, add something to it, and get what you want out of the deal.

The second someone starts preaching something that's close, but with a little difference, I stop trusting that person as a source. I doubt I would have read a whole pamphlet by Fox. I'm too easy on slipping away from full truth. lol

I agree. That means especially those on CC that talk like theologians, too.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm going to look up the few verses given and think on this some more with His help. It is not making sense to me that to endure to the end means to just make sure you don't stop believing Him for eternal life. Too many verses, and the entire bible do not simplify it to that degree. Because there is the matter of hypocrisy. It is hypocritical of me to say that I trust you and then to show that I don't. This is all talk but no substance. Or as the apostle would say, that is faith without works.

Thanks all. I'll come back soon.??????

 

[Stephen63]

People need to understand that's it is never about us. It's all about God's grace and mercy.

I disagree. It has always been about us, or The Father wouldn't have sent Jesus in the first place.

Have you forgotten when God tried Moses & basically said "stand aside, & I will destroy them all & raise a people from your seed"? Moses stood firm before God & declared that He will have to take his life too. God was never going to do that. God so loved the world (mankind) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This whole plan of salvation which was planned before the foundation of the world was centered on us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 4: 11[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses​

New International Version​

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

New Living Translation​

So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.

English Standard Version​

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

Berean Study Bible​

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

Berean Literal Bible​

Therefore we should be diligent to enter into that rest, so that no one should fall by the same example of disobedience.

New American Standard Bible ​

Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I guess God doesn't change after all. It's much easier to figure out God's word when we read all of it.

Yep it is.

But hey, if you want to believe people who never believed in God. Who complained due to lack of faith before the red sea, After it, showed lack of faith when God sent them manna, Showed lack of faith when God sent them water, Showed lack of faith when moses went to the mountain (golden calf) and did not even trust God enough to give them the land he promised them (those giants will kill us) were saved. then somehow backslid.

well keep on believing this..

I will believe what God said, That when WE are faithless. HE IS FAITHFULL, he cant deny himself. (we can not save ourselves. We can not UNSAVE ourselves. )

 

[Stephen63]

Backsliding pertains only to sanctification not to salvation.

Really? Have you read this?

[TABLE="align: center"]
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[TD]

◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

New Living Translation​

Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

English Standard Version​

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Berean Study Bible​

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,

Berean Literal Bible​

For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

New American Standard Bible ​

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

King James Bible​

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

Thank you DC for your idea.....nice.
Thanks also to biblehub.com.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm going to look up the few verses given and think on this some more with His help. It is not making sense to me that to endure to the end means to just make sure you don't stop believing Him for eternal life. Too many verses, and the entire bible do not simplify it to that degree. Because there is the matter of hypocrisy. It is hypocritical of me to say that I trust you and then to show that I don't. This is all talk but no substance. Or as the apostle would say, that is faith without works.

Thanks all. I'll come back soon.������

Again, Sayign I DO NOT TRUST YOU, and saying I LACK FAITH IN THIS AREA OF MY LIFE. are two different things.

When are people every going to sit and actually LISTEN to what others are saying, instead of making the same eronious assumptions they keep making.

When you come back, Maybe you can start by trying to understand what people are saying..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really? Have you read this?

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

New Living Translation​

Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

English Standard Version​

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Berean Study Bible​

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,

Berean Literal Bible​

For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

New American Standard Bible ​

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

King James Bible​

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

Thank you DC for your idea.....nice.
Thanks also to biblehub.com.

And take this with 1 John.

[h=1] 1 John 3:9New King James Version (NKJV)
[/h][SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

[h=1] 1 John 3:9New American Standard Bible (NASB)[SUP]
9 [/SUP]No one who is [SUP][a][/SUP]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [SUP][b][/SUP]born of God.
[/h]
[h=1] 1 John 3:9New International Version (NIV)
[/h] [SUP]9 [/SUP]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.


[h=1] 1 John 3:9English Standard Version (ESV)
[/h] [SUP]9 [/SUP]No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[SUP][a][/SUP] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.



Talk about reading ALL OF SCRIPTURE

 

[Stephen63]

No, what I meant is they were killed before they had a chance to start coming back to church.

I was a prodigal son for 5 years.. I am lucky ot be alive, and have made it back. But if I died before I made it back because of something I did then I have no doubt where I would spend eternity. Because it was never on me, but on God.

So, that's what you meant..... Okkkkk.......

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

Thats what Pride does to you. I know many christians who have fallen due to pride. they start to lack faith in god in areas of their life. and go back to the old way of doing things, Only to fail miserably. I have seen some come back after hitting rock bottom. I have seen others never have a chance to come back because they either killed themselves like Saul, Or were killed doing something.

What you said, & what you say you said doesn't line up.

 

[Stephen63]

Oh, So a person who says no to God, says he does not even believe in God has faith in God? Where was the faith of the pharisee when God sent his messiah to them?

ps...That passage speaks of spiritual gifts given to the church, Not to everyone..

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ Romans 12:3 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

New Living Translation​

Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don't think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.

English Standard Version​

For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Berean Study Bible​

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.

Berean Literal Bible​

For through the grace having been given to me, I say to everyone being among you, not to be high-minded above what it behooves you to think, but to think so as to be sober-minded, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

New American Standard Bible ​

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.[/TD]
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God's word says everyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, that's what you meant..... Okkkkk.......

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

Thats what Pride does to you. I know many christians who have fallen due to pride. they start to lack faith in god in areas of their life. and go back to the old way of doing things, Only to fail miserably. I have seen some come back after hitting rock bottom. I have seen others never have a chance to come back because they either killed themselves like Saul, Or were killed doing something.

What you said, & what you say you said doesn't line up.

Maybe because you do not want to hear?

Context.

they start to lack faith in god in areas of their life. and go back to the old way of doing things, Only to fail miserably

ie, they left church, and took things into their hands, because they stopped trusting god in areas,

I have seen some come back after hitting rock bottom.

Some (like myself) hit rock bottom, And came back to church, and started to learn to trust God again

I have seen others never have a chance to come back because they either killed themselves like Saul, Or were killed doing something.

Others, were killed, or killed themselves, Thus they do not have a chance to come back TO CHURCH kind of hard to respond to the chastening of God, and come back to the body when your DEAD!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ Romans 12:3 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

New Living Translation​

Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don't think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.

English Standard Version​

For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Berean Study Bible​

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.

Berean Literal Bible​

For through the grace having been given to me, I say to everyone being among you, not to be high-minded above what it behooves you to think, but to think so as to be sober-minded, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

New American Standard Bible ​

For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.[/TD]
[/TR]
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God's word says everyone.

why is it you always FAIL to include context verses? DO you think we can just PICK and chose a passage out of context and make it say what we want?

Rom 12: 1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers,[SUP][a][/SUP] by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world,[SUP][c][/SUP] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned

He is talking to SAVED PEOPLE, NOT THE WORLD.

 

[Stephen63]

And take this with 1 John.

1 John 3:9New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 3:9New American Standard Bible (NASB)[SUP]
9 [/SUP]No one who is [SUP][a][/SUP]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [SUP][b][/SUP]born of God.



1 John 3:9New International Version (NIV)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.


1 John 3:9English Standard Version (ESV)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[SUP][a][/SUP] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.



Talk about reading ALL OF SCRIPTURE

See all the red? It means to continue practicing in sin.

Thanks for doing half the work for me.

 

[Stephen63]

Maybe because you do not want to hear?

Context.



ie, they left church, and took things into their hands, because they stopped trusting god in areas,



Some (like myself) hit rock bottom, And came back to church, and started to learn to trust God again


Others, were killed, or killed themselves, Thus they do not have a chance to come back TO CHURCH kind of hard to respond to the chastening of God, and come back to the body when your DEAD!

They didn't have a chance to go back anywhere.

 

[notuptome]

Really? Have you read this?

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

New Living Translation​

Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

English Standard Version​

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Berean Study Bible​

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,

Berean Literal Bible​

For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

New American Standard Bible ​

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

King James Bible​

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

Thank you DC for your idea.....nice.
Thanks also to biblehub.com.

So what you are declaring is that the blood of Jesus Christ is unable to cleanse us from our sin? One sacrifice one time entered into the holy of holies and sprinkled on the altar.

Just what did you receive from Christ when you asked Him to save you? Just what does Gods grace mean to you? What does becoming a new creature in Christ mean to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

why is it you always FAIL to include context verses? DO you think we can just PICK and chose a passage out of context and make it say what we want?

Rom 12: 1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers,[SUP][a][/SUP] by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world,[SUP][c][/SUP] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned

He is talking to SAVED PEOPLE, NOT THE WORLD.

Soooo..... you're saying some sinners never had faith to be saved at all?!?

Pleeeze explain.

 

[LaurenTM]

thread has entered the twilight zone.....anything goes and I am too

 

[Grace777x70]

Has anyone ever read this scripture?

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.


Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Works-based salvationists mindsets will always stumble at the preaching of Christ and His finished work of salvation for us.

They will read with Old Covenant eyes and interpret scriptures through this lens - Paul said with the reading of Moses there is a veil over the eyes and Christ has become a stumbling block to them and they are blinded to the truths of Christ finished work for us.

The Old Covenant mindset was - "you do in order to receive". The New Covenant is "Believe and receive all that Christ has already done by grace through faith in Him".

Then His life will flow in and through us to a hurt and dying world. His fruit is being manifested in our lives as we depend totally on His grace through faith in Him and what he has already done for us. Without Him we can do nothing. He is our life.

Remember - everything in the scriptures is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

We need to filter all scripture through the clear scriptures of the salvation that is in Christ because of His grace. We receive this grace of His work by faith when we believed.

 

[Stephen63]

So what you are declaring is that the blood of Jesus Christ is unable to cleanse us from our sin? One sacrifice one time entered into the holy of holies and sprinkled on the altar.

Just what did you receive from Christ when you asked Him to save you? Just what does Gods grace mean to you? What does becoming a new creature in Christ mean to you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Pleeeze read again veeeery sloooowly. & look at the bluuuue writing.....

Originally Posted by Stephen63

Really? Have you read this?

[TABLE="class: cms_table, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ Hebrews 10:26 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: cms_table, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses
New International Version​

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

New Living Translation​

Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinningafter we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

English Standard Version​

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Berean Study Bible​

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,

Berean Literal Bible​

For if we sin willingly after we are to receive the knowledge of the truth, no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

New American Standard Bible​

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

King James Bible​

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

"after we have received the knowledge of the truth" means "after receiving Christ"
Sinners never received Him.

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

◄ John 1:12 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Parallel Verses​

New International Version​

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

New Living Translation​

But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.

English Standard Version​

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Berean Study Bible​

But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--

Berean Literal Bible​

But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God--to those believing in His name,

New American Standard Bible ​

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,[/TD]
[/TR]
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I woulda' thought anyone could have seen that.