Is it possible to be a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah and reje

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#21
Yah knew it before it happened, Psalm 89...

Psalm 40:6-8, “Sacrifice and meal offering You did not desire; You have opened my ears; Burnt offering and sin offering You did not ask for. Then I said, “See, I have come; In the scroll of the Book it is prescribed for me. I have delighted to do Your pleasure, O my Strength, And Your Torah is within my heart.”

Hebrew 10:5-7, “Therefore, coming into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and meal offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and offerings for sin You did not delight. Then I said, ‘See, I come – in the roll of the book it has been written concerning Me – to do Your desire, O Yah."

Isayah 53

1, "Who has believed our report? And to whom was the arm of יהוה revealed?"2, "For He grew up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or splendor that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should desire Him –"3, "despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and knowing sickness. And as one from whom the face is hidden, being despised, and we did not consider Him."4, "Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by Yah, and afflicted."5, "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookednesses. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."6, "We all, like sheep, went astray, each one of us has turned to his own way. And יהוה has laid on Him the crookedness of us all."7, "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, but He did not open His mouth."8, "He was taken from prison and from judgment. And as for His generation, who considered that He shall be cut off from the land of the living? For the transgression of My people He was stricken."9, "And He was appointed a burial-site with the wrong, and with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was deceit in His mouth.10, "But יהוה was pleased to crush Him, He laid sickness on Him, that when He made Himself an offering for guilt, He would see a seed, He would prolong His days and the pleasure of יהוה prosper in His hand."11, "He would see the result of the suffering of His life and be satisfied. Through His knowledge My righteous Servant makes many righteous, and He bears their crookednesses."12, "Therefore I give Him a portion among the great, and He divides the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His being unto death, and He was counted with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."


 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#22
Yeah the Levitical Priesthood is abolished, not the Laws of the priesthood... Look at the context of that chaoter and even the entire book to the Hebrews...

Your answer doesn't make any sense. Did you think about it at all?

If the laws of the priesthood were not abolished what further need was there that a priest would rise after the order of Melchisidec and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Why abolish the priesthood but not change the law?

Hebrews 7:12 [FONT=&quot]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

[/FONT]
You're reading it but its not registering.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#23
Your answer doesn't make any sense. Did you think about it at all?

If the laws of the priesthood were not abolished what further need was there that a priest would rise after the order of Melchisidec and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Why abolish the priesthood but not change the law?

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

You're reading it but its not registering.
Yes a change of the Law of the priesthood, a metathesis, a transformation... I didnt really explain... Also I take the entire council of Yah and understand the word as a whole, to many passages supporting my stance IMO, also A huge thuing is understanding Hebrew and greek text in their original language....

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strong's Concordance “changed” is word #3331 - metathesis: a change, removal, Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: metathesis, Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is), Short Definition:change, transformation, removal, Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


—[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strong's Concordance “change” is word #3346 - metatithemi: I transfer, desert, change, Original Word: μετατίθημι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: metatithemi, Phonetic Spelling: (met-at-ith'-ay-mee), Short Definition: I transfer, desert, change, Definition: (a) I transfer, mid: I go over to another party, desert, (b) I change.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


—[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]

Hebrews is a complex study, metathesis and metathemi and important, and knowing all Scripture is also important in understanding the matter.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#24
Re: Is it possible to be a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah and

That's some seriously circular reasoning you have going on there.

[FONT=&quot]So much mental gymnastics to keep it all together.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hebrews 7:13-14
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[/FONT]
14 [FONT=&quot]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law of the Levites??? What curse of the law of the Levites???

I can't make you see any of this, although it is obvious. Only the Lord can.



[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#25
That's some seriously circular reasoning you have going on there.

So much mental gymnastics to keep it all together.

Hebrews 7:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law of the Levites??? What curse of the law of the Levites???

I can't make you see any of this, although it is obvious. Only the Lord can.



SO what is the curse?

Is it a curse not to kill?

or is it a curse that comes when one transgresses do not kill?

Your savior reddemed you from the command do not steal? My savior empowers me to not steal.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#26
SO what is the curse?

Is it a curse not to kill?

or is it a curse that comes when one transgresses do not kill?

Your savior reddemed you from the command do not steal? My savior empowers me to not steal.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
So then you can see that it is not a law of levites that is being discussed in Hebrews 7 but the actual Law?

The one that comes with a curse for not doing it?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#27
That's some seriously circular reasoning you have going on there.

So much mental gymnastics to keep it all together.

Hebrews 7:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law of the Levites??? What curse of the law of the Levites???

I can't make you see any of this, although it is obvious. Only the Lord can.



So then you can see that it is not a law of levites that is being discussed in Hebrews 7 but the actual Law?

The one that comes with a curse for not doing it?
This is Hebrews 7;

Hebrews 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.


That's some seriously circular reasoning you have going on there.

So much mental gymnastics to keep it all together.

Hebrews 7:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
You quoted Galatians 3:13 and said it was Hebrews 7,

Galatians 3:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

New Living Translation
But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

English Standard Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

than said im doing mental gymnastics and circular reasoning....

again;

Hebrews 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#28
This is Hebrews 7;

Hebrews 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.




You quoted Galatians 3:13 and said it was Hebrews 7,

Galatians 3:13 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

New Living Translation
But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

English Standard Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

than said im doing mental gymnastics and circular reasoning....

again;

Hebrews 7:13-14New International Version (NIV)
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Sorry about that.

I meant to put Galatians not Hebrews... My mistake
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
SO what is the curse?

Is it a curse not to kill?

or is it a curse that comes when one transgresses do not kill?

Your savior reddemed you from the command do not steal? My savior empowers me to not steal.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
The curse was first spoken of By Moses after giving the commands of the law

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all




It was then re-iterated to the NT people in galations by paul himself

Galatians 3:10
[ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue
in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them

The curse was removed by Jesus himself.. the curse was death.