Is it possible to get, "unborn again"?

[Jabberjaw]

how can it be possible?

It says you are sealed until the day of redemption. Not till you stop believing, why are you adding to the word?

You think someone who has true faith in God would ever stop believing totally? Even faith of a mustard sead can move mountains. My faith my dwindle from time to time, but it will never cease.

You think it can, because your belief is in self and your good works. no wonder you think faith can fail. your faith is on the thing that is perishing, not in the one who is everlasting.

what is sealed until redemption? it is the promise, once you accept and obey the gospel you receive the promise (Acts 2:38)

it does not lock you in for salvation. you do not lose you free will to accept God, you are not locked in to continue obeying Him even if you once did.

You cannot take "fallen from grace" out of this scripture not mater how much you twist, you cannot fall from something you were never on.

Galatians 5:4 (NKJV)
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[crossnote]

Gal 5:4 plainly, unambiguously says "ye are fallen from grace"

You say "No it doesn't"

Nothing can be done for those that reject plain bible teaching for a pet man-made doctrine.

Galatians 5:2-5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


In context fallen from grace is speaking of those whose hope is in the law for justification. Is that your hope?

 

[Jabberjaw]

So you see God as vindictive and not loving God. If your formula worked then Christ need not have come and shed His blood on Calvary.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Have you seen this? :

Ephesians 5:6 (NKJV)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

 

[SeaBass]

talk about opinion, even Ephesians which you quoted speaks of 'sealed unto the day of redemption'.

Eph 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Eph 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

The plural 'ye' refers to the group "Christian" that is sealed. Nowhere does the bible teach that any individual APART from the group is sealed UNCONDITIONALLY. As long as one CONDITIONALLY remains in the group he remains sealed....one can fall from the group as those at Ephesus did in Rev 2:1-7, then one is no longer sealed APART from the group.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Spoken like a man who has never met someone who has been devoured by the diabolical one. Peter is speaking of testimony not eternal salvation.

The problem is it does not say what you say (another deflection as you cannot explain the warning if one cannot be lost)

I knew of a Christian who was in business and had a great reputation for honesty. He later was convicted of securities fraud and went to jail. His testimony and his family were greatly harmed by this indiscretion. He now has no testimony for Christ except he is the poster child for what not to do.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That is called falling from grace, lest he repent and ask God His forgiveness... do you really think this man can do NOTHING and remain in a saved state?

 

[Jabberjaw]

Still WAITING on you to answer!

Just stating facts as you are the one who by your remarks about your kids opened the door to your own fallacy and moot argument....so answer.....

1. Did you chunk your kids out the door when they were little and did something that upset you?
2. Did they cease from being your kids?

See you cant answer, because...
1. It would prove you were misleading and or lying concerning the statement about your kids
2. It would prove that your theology is heretical as once a child is born they will ALWAYS be a CHILD BY BIRTH

I never brought up your silly kids ideology, you or eternally-gratefull did...

It makes no difference what I allow or do not allow in MY house, what matters is what He allows in His.

Now since you have tried to deflect once again, will you answer why Peter would warn us of being devoured by the roaring lion (satan) if we cannot be devoured (or already devoured, aka never saved to begin with)?

You cannot.

 

[SeaBass]

Actually I know her personally, and she knows more about the word of God and has a better understanding of the word than you and your top three working for salvation buddies put together.....!

Here are Ella85 posts from the last two hours in this thread:

Post #79 -Placing my own opinion. ?? Well obviously that's why i am here, to give an opinion and also what makes your opinion righteous?

I Don't agree with your comment so.....too bad.

Post #80 - Oh I'm glad someone else saw it too thanks crossnote!

Post #93 - Just because you used scripture doesn't mean you used the right scripture to back up your theory.
Anyone call pull verses from the bible, doesn't mean it proves your opinion on the matter. It comes back to being able to understand the verse being used in the first place.
So you have your belief I'll have mine.
God doesn't lie or change His word.

These are the type of responses myself, Jabberjaw and Newbirth have been getting from Ella85 and yourself. Nothing substantive, nothing biblically based just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[crossnote]

Eph 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Eph 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

The plural 'ye' refers to the group "Christian" that is sealed. Nowhere does the bible teach that any individual APART from the group is sealed UNCONDITIONALLY. As long as one CONDITIONALLY remains in the group he remains sealed....one can fall from the group as those at Ephesus did in Rev 2:1-7, then one is no longer sealed APART from the group.

Of course it's plural, Paul is addressing a group of believers made up of individuals. We as believers comprise the Body of Christ, and as INDIVIDUALS we were placed and sealed into Christ.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Of course it's plural, Paul is addressing a group of believers made up of individuals. We as believers comprise the Body of Christ, and as INDIVIDUALS we were placed and sealed into Christ.

I recall having this conversation with him before. Some people do not understand "birth" as being "born of the Spirit" and being "born of "INCORRUPTIBLE seed".

 

[Jabberjaw]

I recall having this conversation with him before. Some people do not understand "birth" as being "born of the Spirit" and being "born of "INCORRUPTIBLE seed".

What do you believe "born of incorruptible seed" means?

 

[notuptome]

The problem is it does not say what you say (another deflection as you cannot explain the warning if one cannot be lost)

The problem is not what I say but that you will not to believe. You refuse to see that salvation and sanctification are two separate things. The crux of the works to be saved mentality is the blurring of the line between salvation by grace and walking with the Lord after salvation. This is not done out of ignorance but out of malice toward the grace of God.

That is called falling from grace, lest he repent and ask God His forgiveness... do you really think this man can do NOTHING and remain in a saved state?

Man could do nothing to be saved. Man must be saved by Gods grace so it is God doing all that must be done. We begin to work after we are saved but only God knows what is in the heart of a man. That means that only God knows what works are being done by any believer. Believers can do works that are not in the Spirit but in the flesh and these are of no merit toward God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Galatians 5:2-5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


In context fallen from grace is speaking of those whose hope is in the law for justification. Is that your hope?

The context proves they had fallen (aorist tense, indicative mood) from grace. It is a stated fact (indicative mood) some at Galatia had ALREADY fallen (past tense) from grace. One is either in grace/saved or outside of grace/lost, no inbetween. So if one falls from grace then logically that means he is now outside of grace/lost. The reason he fell from grace does not matter he still fell from grace. The reason some at Galatia fell from grace was going back to keep the OT law for justification. This reason does not change the stated fact (indicative mood) they fell (past tense) from grace.

 

[Jabberjaw]

The problem is not what I say but that you will not to believe. You refuse to see that salvation and sanctification are two separate things. The crux of the works to be saved mentality is the blurring of the line between salvation by grace and walking with the Lord after salvation. This is not done out of ignorance but out of malice toward the grace of God.

Another deflection, I asked why would Peter warn us we can be devoured by the roaring lion (satan) if we can't? is he warning someone that is already lost? is he telling us if we are already devoured by the roaring lion that we can be devoured by the roaring lion? you see how your theology makes no sense?

Man could do nothing to be saved. Man must be saved by Gods grace so it is God doing all that must be done. We begin to work after we are saved but only God knows what is in the heart of a man. That means that only God knows what works are being done by any believer. Believers can do works that are not in the Spirit but in the flesh and these are of no merit toward God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, you rest all on Gods grace and nothing on your friend, if he was in a saved position (you called him a Christian) then he sinned, yet did not repent and ask Gods forgiveness, is your friend still saved? can this sinner enter the gates of heaven unrepentant?

 

[SeaBass]

Of course it's plural, Paul is addressing a group of believers made up of individuals. We as believers comprise the Body of Christ, and as INDIVIDUALS we were placed and sealed into Christ.

Eph 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"

Yes, Paul is addressing a group, "Saints", "faithful in Christ" i.e., Christians. Paul is not addressing individuals OUTSIDE and APART from the group telling those individuals they are sealed UNcondtionally. It is the group that is sealed and one must be CONDITIONALLY in that group and REMAIN in the group to remain sealed.
How many INDIVIDUALS outside the group Christian are unconditionally sealed?

 

[crossnote]

The context proves they had fallen (aorist tense, indicative mood) from grace. It is a stated fact (indicative mood) some at Galatia had ALREADY fallen (past tense) from grace. One is either in grace/saved or outside of grace/lost, no inbetween. So if one falls from grace then logically that means he is now outside of grace/lost. The reason he fell from grace does not matter he still fell from grace. The reason some at Galatia fell from grace was going back to keep the OT law for justification. This reason does not change the stated fact (indicative mood) they fell (past tense) from grace.

All you know about this group is that they are attempting to be righteous through the law. It says nothing of their eternal state. Paul is simply stating that justification does not come by law but by grace.

 

[SeaBass]

All you know about this group is that they are attempting to be righteous through the law. It says nothing of their eternal state. Paul is simply stating that justification does not come by law but by grace.

Huh????

You post "It says nothing of their eternal state"


What is the eternal state of those who have fallen from, out of God's grace?

 

[Jabberjaw]

All you know about this group is that they are attempting to be righteous through the law. It says nothing of their eternal state. Paul is simply stating that justification does not come by law but by grace.

The important part is some in the group (saved saints (in grace) Eph. 1:1) fell from grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what is sealed until redemption? it is the promise, once you accept and obey the gospel you receive the promise (Acts 2:38)

it does not lock you in for salvation. you do not lose you free will to accept God, you are not locked in to continue obeying Him even if you once did.

You cannot take "fallen from grace" out of this scripture not mater how much you twist, you cannot fall from something you were never on.

Galatians 5:4 (NKJV)
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

yep. so why are you trying to be justified by law?

and what is sealed and GUARANTEED (funny how you forget that word) is your justification in christ.

did you even read the passage?


[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

hmm funny, we did not make ourselv acceptable to him, he made us acceptable. how did he do that?? oh wait, read on.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, [SUP]9 [/SUP]having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,

[SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ahh, ok. quite simple.

paul and his people (we) were made acceptable by the remission of sin.

then he makes it clear, you also, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, were ALSO sealed with this same guarantee.

if people would just read. they would not be so ignorant.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now your going to have to show me an example of someone who was "devoured" by a lion and lived.

lol. look it up online, many people have lived being devoured, They are in bad shape, but they survived.

Nice try buddy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you seen this? :

Ephesians 5:6 (NKJV)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

yep. and it will come on you unless your born again. because every person who ever lived but Christ are considered in gods eyes sons of disobedience.