Is it too late?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
385
63
Ok. I assume you think he his wrong? I’m no expert on the mark of the beast, do we actually know what it is? Just had to go back and read Revelation 14 again. Is it a physical mark of some sort or is it alluding to those who follow the beast in deed (right hand) and nature or thought (forehead)? Is it a 666 tattoo?
Here’s an interesting question, can a devil worshiping, 666/pentagram tattooed Satanist become saved today?
 
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
Ok. I assume you think he his wrong? I’m no expert on the mark of the beast, do we actually know what it is? Just had to go back and read Revelation 14 again. Is it a physical mark of some sort or is it alluding to those who follow the beast in deed (right hand) and nature or thought (forehead)? Is it a 666 tattoo?
Here’s an interesting question, can a devil worshiping, 666/pentagram tattooed Satanist become saved today?
Today, as opposed to the time that the restrainer is removed, whether that means the Church or the Holy Spirit? Yes, God calls all to repentance that they might be saved. Recently in Africa (I don't recall which nation), the president of an atheistic organization surrendered himself to Jesus and was converted from lost to saved. Hallelujah. But, when the antichrist and the false prophet have taken over, the mark of the beast will be mandatory and it will be a seal of those that worship the beast. There's no escape and no hope for salvation after being sealed by the beast's mark.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
977
385
63
Today, as opposed to the time that the restrainer is removed, whether that means the Church or the Holy Spirit? Yes, God calls all to repentance that they might be saved. Recently in Africa (I don't recall which nation), the president of an atheistic organization surrendered himself to Jesus and was converted from lost to saved. Hallelujah. But, when the antichrist and the false prophet have taken over, the mark of the beast will be mandatory and it will be a seal of those that worship the beast. There's no escape and no hope for salvation after being sealed by the beast's mark.
Good points but I’m still not sure. Here’s another video.
 
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
Good points but I’m still not sure. Here’s another video.
What John MacArthur and Phil Johnson both fail to mention is that the mark of the beast occurs during the seven years referred to as the Day of the Lord, during which the restrainer, either Holy Spirit or the Church or both, has been removed from the earth.

There will come a time, and it is going to be during the reign of antichrist and the false prophet, that tribulation saints will be martyred/killed for refusing to take the mark of the beast. And those that take the mark of the beast will be allowed to live, buy and sell, all during the reign of antichrist because they have agreed to the beasts demands and have taken the beast's mark.

The Word clearly says those that receive the mark are those that worship the beast, and those that worship the beast will be thrown into the lake of fire.

How do you reconcile salvation going to both the one's martyred for their faith for refusing the mark and those who had no faith and whose lives were spared by antichrist for taking the mark?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
I agree, Jones was a false teacher; but by your own definition he had the anointing because he had a large following. And a lot of people certainly believed he had the anointing.

Now, if it's possible for Jones to be a false teacher and still draw large crowds and appear to have the anointing, wouldn't it be possible for the leader of a megachurch to likewise be a false teacher and appear to have the anointing?

We have to use criteria other than crowd size because it's too unreliable. Is there evidence of the fruit of the Spirit? Does what this person teach match up with God's word. Is the person in question living in humility before God or arrogantly in worldly luxury? Is his or her private life the same as what is projected publicly?
excuse me don't twist my words

I did not say large crowds = anointing
I said the anointing will bring large crowds

John Lennon attracted large crowds, but a dead and alive church never will, either be hot for the Lord or cold.

I look to see if folks are getting saved through a ministry, are they genuinely being born again, are they getting fixed up? are sick folk being made whole, are they getting victory over the devil? over all the devil's work? are they being taught? are they being encouraged and comforted? are they being exhorted? are they being blest.

If you can't tell whether or not Jesus is being lifted up you've got a problem anyway and these things go together. If Jesus is being lifted up the people will be blest.

... and the carpers and critics will gather.

Don't be in the wrong crowd.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
Who decides when enough of the Holy Spirit has been evidenced in a person for them to be able to speak the truth in love? Is that decided by the assembly as well: the elders, etc.?
The assembly is the authoritative body in the church, you have to submit to it. you do not have to agree with it. If you have the truth, if you have God's word for the assembly, God is more than capable of making His word and His truth prevail.

It may take prayer, it may be a spiritual battle. Learn to be patient.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
I agree, Jones was a false teacher; but by your own definition he had the anointing because he had a large following. And a lot of people certainly believed he had the anointing.

Now, if it's possible for Jones to be a false teacher and still draw large crowds and appear to have the anointing, wouldn't it be possible for the leader of a megachurch to likewise be a false teacher and appear to have the anointing?

We have to use criteria other than crowd size because it's too unreliable. Is there evidence of the fruit of the Spirit? Does what this person teach match up with God's word. Is the person in question living in humility before God or arrogantly in worldly luxury? Is his or her private life the same as what is projected publicly?
God taught me a precious thing in the first few days of being saved which has stayed with me down through the years. From the book of Ruth, she was told to glean behind the reapers. That's it, follow the soulwinners. If they are winning souls they are wise. They may not be 100% right in doctrine.

... beware of sheep stealers
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
I agree, Jones was a false teacher; but by your own definition he had the anointing because he had a large following. And a lot of people certainly believed he had the anointing.

Now, if it's possible for Jones to be a false teacher and still draw large crowds and appear to have the anointing, wouldn't it be possible for the leader of a megachurch to likewise be a false teacher and appear to have the anointing?

We have to use criteria other than crowd size because it's too unreliable. Is there evidence of the fruit of the Spirit? Does what this person teach match up with God's word. Is the person in question living in humility before God or arrogantly in worldly luxury? Is his or her private life the same as what is projected publicly?
You keep quoting Jim Jones, but he is a warning to YOU not me.

I don't know too much about him but I believe he started off ok, he went off from the church he was attending upon a point of doctrine. So did Joseph Smith so did Ellen White and the founder of the JWs that's what we're talking about. BEWARE. Don't reject the church.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,678
3,241
113
First, he (MacArthur) believes in a pre-trib rapture, that's red flag #1. I don't know how someone who believes this can be trusted.

#2, he says if those who take the mark can't be redeemed, then there's no hope for salvation for anyone at the end of the tribulation. Apparently he hasn't read Revelation 20:4:

"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

People will be saved at the end of the tribulation but they'll be saved because they didn't take the mark. Scripture's very clear, those who take the mark are doomed.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,678
3,241
113
The assembly is the authoritative body in the church, you have to submit to it. you do not have to agree with it.
If I may ask, is the church you attend affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation? By that I mean those who teach that God has restored the offices of Apostles and Prophets to the church.

I ask because what you said here is exactly what they teach: you have to submit to the absolute authority of the Apostle and the Prophet and those under them. They also teach that the words of the Prophet are authoritative. He receives the word directly from God and imparts it to the congregation or congregations. So they have extrabiblical revelation which is authoritative.

But even if your church isn't one of these, why should a person be expected to submit to someone's authority if their teaching has gone off the rails? Maybe there's a good and legitimate reason you disagree with them. Wouldn't it make more sense to find a group with more sound doctrine.

But it sounds like you're thoroughly committed to the situation you're in so I'll not bother you further. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,386
559
113
Post modernism has taken hold of a lot of parts of christianity, along with materialism and emotionalism.

My brother was talking about a new revival going on.. I am thinking. .. is it another wave of charismania?
Well, Satan does have his own version of that.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,678
3,241
113
excuse me don't twist my words

I did not say large crowds = anointing
I said the anointing will bring large crowds
Okay, fair enough.

My only point is that large crowds aren't a reliable indicator of whether or not the anointing is present. And besides, if you say the anointing always produces megachurches, you're saying all the small churches around the world don't have the anointing; and all the teachers and preachers around the world without megachurches don't have the anointing.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,696
13,078
113
My only point is that large crowds aren't a reliable indicator of whether or not the anointing is present.
Correct. Megachurches use also kinds of incentives to bring in the crowds, but were they to preach the true Gospel, the crowds would disperse very quickly. Rick Warren evidently omits repentance from his gospel.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
Okay, fair enough.

My only point is that large crowds aren't a reliable indicator of whether or not the anointing is present. And besides, if you say the anointing always produces megachurches, you're saying all the small churches around the world don't have the anointing; and all the teachers and preachers around the world without megachurches don't have the anointing.
I see your point regarding small assemblies to stay true to the gospel is more important.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,104
2,584
113
London
christianchat.com
If I may ask, is the church you attend affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation? By that I mean those who teach that God has restored the offices of Apostles and Prophets to the church.

I ask because what you said here is exactly what they teach: you have to submit to the absolute authority of the Apostle and the Prophet and those under them. They also teach that the words of the Prophet are authoritative. He receives the word directly from God and imparts it to the congregation or congregations. So they have extrabiblical revelation which is authoritative.

But even if your church isn't one of these, why should a person be expected to submit to someone's authority if their teaching has gone off the rails? Maybe there's a good and legitimate reason you disagree with them. Wouldn't it make more sense to find a group with more sound doctrine.

But it sounds like you're thoroughly committed to the situation you're in so I'll not bother you further. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Whether apostles have been restored to the church or not I don't know of any, there is no reason in scripture why there may not be apostles ... if apostleship is done away then so is evangelists, teachers and pastors.

However I believe in being subject to the assembly, Paul was most reluctant to judge in the case of the notable sinner at Corinth, he demanded to know why the assembly had not acted. The power to judge is given to the church, the people of God assembled.

If somebody like Paul were to arise and he preached a different gospel or a different doctrine it should be brought to the assembly to judge and let the matter be solved by scripture.

I mean the local assembly, all the problems I see are caused by people in unordained [by scripture] positions of authority at denomination level ... general synods and and councils and general secretariats. Yes certainly by leaders of great para=church organisations.

I don't know the people you name, I'm very fussy about who I will listen to. But these folk are subject to the closest scrutiny of the church and so they should be.

America is the graveyard of once great and powerful ministries, even ministries that have shaken the world but they have gone off into error and the anointing that once attended their ministries is gone agone Paul warned that such a thing could even happen to him.

We have to be alert and vigilant. But like I said, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,386
559
113
Servus Christi, seriously?
While I don't think much of the site or the speaker, he will give a good general direction. Just don't swallow everything he says.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,386
559
113
A warning, brethern. Many on here will "push" their favorite anti- christian speaker to push their agenda for personal gain. They also are wolves in sheep's clothing.
If all a site does is destroy a person's reputation, then it is not of God, for he/she isn't edifying the body of Christ as the Bible proclaims. On the internet you will find those on both sides of the argument with destruction in their wake. They don't care which side you're on as long as division is sown in the body of Christ.
Such "disputes" on this site are the same, polarizing the real christians, "pushing" division.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,678
3,241
113
A warning, brethern. Many on here will "push" their favorite anti- christian speaker to push their agenda for personal gain. They also are wolves in sheep's clothing.
If all a site does is destroy a person's reputation, then it is not of God, for he/she isn't edifying the body of Christ as the Bible proclaims. On the internet you will find those on both sides of the argument with destruction in their wake. They don't care which side you're on as long as division is sown in the body of Christ.
Such "disputes" on this site are the same, polarizing the real christians, "pushing" division.
What do you mean by "favorite anti-Christian speaker?" Can you give an example?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,678
3,241
113
If a person wants a great overview of what's going on in the broader world of Christianity today watch this video. It's about and hour and a half total.

https://www.hollypivec.com/ (scroll to the bottom of the page)

Notice James Goll make faces and squirm in his seat when Holly Pivec starts speaking.