Is Jesus a Christian?

iamsoandso · Jun 4, 2013

there is no nation on any map named "America",,,,it is a continent,i.e.Africa,Europe ect.,,,,,in the American continent there is an nation named the "united states of America",,,,,

in Antioch they were first called "Christians"acts 11;19-26,,,or the slang of it's term "Nazarene"acts 24'5,,,they were called both. ,,,

to cut to the chase if one believes that he was born in the flesh and died for our sins and rose from the grave he is not "antichrist",,,,,,,,,,,,,,Christ surly believed in this truth,and fits the definition of himself being born of virgin birth,into the world and dieing for our sins.......fits the same definition as everyone else,,,,,

"i am not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it",,,,,,"whomsoever ye serve he is your master",,,,,and he came to fufill the law given thru Moses,,,,,so is the law of Moses,the promise to Abraham christian??????,,,,,

secularhermit · Jun 4, 2013

I want HIm to lecture us... Sure He wasn´t Christian.

RedTent · Jun 4, 2013

If you go into human definitions and understanding, this discussion could go on for a long time. Just in defining what the word Christian means could take a lot of posts. Going into the technical questions of what the Messianic Jewish denomination does could delight debaters and the "ain't it AWFUL" people probably could make something of it too.

If you look at it from how God tells us it is, it becomes quite simple. Christ was with God at creation, and the symbol of Christ was part of the sacrificial system. Christ fulfilled it when He was with us as a man. Judaism includes that along with the ways God used to train the Hebrews about His principles. So Christianity is an outgrowth of Judaism.

People are pretty confused about the training tools God used for the Hebrews. Some say that is Judaism. The bible says we don't have to go by all the tools such as circumcision before we can be included, and some say that means that Judaism and Christianity are not the same. The early church leaders worked hard to separate any of the two, making them two entirely different religions. If you just look for God's viewpoint, God wanted there to be no separation between the two except that we are to thank the Hebrews for being the people chosen to show God principles to us.

People who have lived the life of an orthodox Jew and come to know Christ are often quite confused by how the rituals they are used to are forbidden. To them, making everyday routines part of how they know God is a pathway to God and they can't understand being denied this because they have the blessings of Christ.

I think throwing in the fact that a sect of Jews called Pharisees had some practices that were scolded by Christ, or even that Jews today deny that Christ was the Messiah is beside the point of this discussion.

iamsoandso · Jun 4, 2013

zone said:

jesus did trust in that the cross would redeem the world of sin,,,he knew that it possessed the power.,,,,,i lay it down of my own free will,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

iamsoandso · Jun 4, 2013

zone i was replying with quote to what you replied to with quote,,,,,,lol,,,

zone · Jun 4, 2013

RedTent said:

oh really?
please provide the testimony of an adherent of orthodox Judaism coming to Christ who is confused about the former religion's rituals being anything remotely related to Biblical Judaism.

the genuine converts know and testify to Talmudic Rabbinic Judaism being a religion of death. not a branch of or the elder brother of Christianity or any of that nonsense.

Rabbinic Judaism is of satan redtent.
its not that hard to find that out.
you'd have to care enough to do so.
and be faithful enough to Jesus to stand up and say so.

zone · Jun 4, 2013

iamsoandso said:

lol....here ya go:

1still_waters said:

It seems like these days people are fleeing from traditional terms due to perceived wrongs done by the collective who associates themselves with those terms.

Or people ask was Jesus a Christian, and if he wasn't does that mean calling ourselves a Christian is wrong?

Obviously Jesus didn't need to be justified of his sins by trusting in his own crucifixion and resurrection, as he sought daily to be conformed to his own image through the power of the Holy Spirit.

But does that mean we are not to be called Christians, or are not to do the GOOD stuff associated with that term? I say..OBVIOUSLY NOT!

We do have sins we need forgiven of, and we do need to conform to Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now do we have to label/title that as "Christianity"? NO!

But that is something we should certainly do.

We shouldn't flee from stuff we should do because on a highly technical level Jesus didn't do it. Some of this is as silly as trying to decide what is is.

4enlightment · Jun 4, 2013

kenisyes said:

I was showing you the style how people distinguish each other. This prophecy was written by someone that had branched from England and which King James version writings was written from and englishman. the word Christians probably phrased differently in the oringinal text, but the pattern that the europeans uses had came up with christians. Jehovah means the same as Yahweh, but it was the german translation of that word and which Martin Luther was the first to translate the scriptures from it original state and he was German. The problem with people in understanding the word is that they view it by word by word, but if they find the concept of it meanings or the moral behind the story and which I believe, that they'll find the mistakes of the translator. Whatever the translator had translated isn't all the time written stone, some of them had paraphrase and has gotten from other sources so that we can understand it. Like the word firmament isn't what we think it pertain to; and there's many more words that has been misunderstood.So basically we know what Christian means.

Washington was an Mason but he dwelled among does that were not.

RedTent · Jun 4, 2013

Lauren T. Winner. Lois Tverberg.

Your wording is very strange. Your thinking sometimes gets pretty mixed up, too. These people do not think the rituals suggested by God for training the Jews were something that we should not do because we know Christ.

I really don't follow all this stuff about Judaism being in the "ain't it just AWFUL" category. Sounds more like something from that book called Games People Play to me.

zone · Jun 4, 2013

RedTent said:

i read the OT redtent. i understand the Mosaic system.
i understand the types and shadows and that they were very important, and for what purposes.

but it doesn't seem to matter how many times i try to show you that Judaism is not in any way whatsoever at all ever since 70AD related to Moses or the OT, you think the 'wording or thinking is strange'.

this is not unusual today. people have made a choice.
there will be another choice to make soon.

here's the information again - do with it what you will.

In Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded Christian scholar Michael Hoffman documents his provocative thesis that Judaism is not the religion of the Old Testament, but the newly formalized belief system of the Pharisees, which arose in Babylon with the commitment of the formally oral traditions of the elders to writing, in the wake of the crucifixion of Israels Messiah and the destruction of the Temple.

Basing his findings on authoritative Judaic sources, Hoffman demonstrates that Judaism is a man-made religion of tradition and superstition, which represents the institutionalized nullification of Biblical law and doctrine.

Liberating the reader from the accumulated shackles of decades of misinformation, this book that shows that Judaism's god is not the God of Israel, but the strange gods of Talmud and Kabbalah, and the racial self-worship they inculcate.

Christian bookstores are packed with tomes purporting to unmask the religion of Islam, but not one slim volume will be found delving into the depravities of Orthodox Judaism.Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded: corrects that imbalance with its fidelity to Biblical truth and the historic witness of the Church.

Here is the best book on Judaism for educating people about the hidden side of this much glorified, but soul-destroying religion of warfare and deception. Hoffman deconstructs the facade of Judaism in clear and understandable writing, and does so charitably and without vitriol.

.......

choose any number of objective sources.
course, you'd have to be freed from the myth that the romans or constantine or luther or early goy believers messed everything up and God's plan is out of control.

zone · Jun 4, 2013

RedTent said:

A puzzling memoir about a religious conversion
November 24, 2002

Girl Meets God: On the Path to a Spiritual Life

By Lauren F. Winner

"Winner describes the liturgical, prayer and communal life of Orthodox Judaism with great affection and appreciation. The strong familial attractions of traditional religion come alive...."

A puzzling memoir about a religious conversion - Chicago Tribune < click

if you have anything more on it, please provide the links.
the rest of the article is worth reading.

crossnote · Jun 4, 2013

zone said:

i read the OT redtent. i understand the Mosaic system.
i understand the types and shadows and that they were very important, and for what purposes.

but it doesn't seem to matter how many times i try to show you that Judaism is not in any way whatsoever at all ever since 70AD related to Moses or the OT, you think the 'wording or thinking is strange'.

this is not unusual today. people have made a choice.
there will be another choice to make soon.

here's the information again - do with it what you will.

In Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded Christian scholar Michael Hoffman documents his provocative thesis that Judaism is not the religion of the Old Testament, but the newly formalized belief system of the Pharisees, which arose in Babylon with the commitment of the formally oral traditions of the elders to writing, in the wake of the crucifixion of Israels Messiah and the destruction of the Temple.

Basing his findings on authoritative Judaic sources, Hoffman demonstrates that Judaism is a man-made religion of tradition and superstition, which represents the institutionalized nullification of Biblical law and doctrine.

Liberating the reader from the accumulated shackles of decades of misinformation, this book that shows that Judaism's god is not the God of Israel, but the strange gods of Talmud and Kabbalah, and the racial self-worship they inculcate.

Christian bookstores are packed with tomes purporting to unmask the religion of Islam, but not one slim volume will be found delving into the depravities of Orthodox Judaism.Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded: corrects that imbalance with its fidelity to Biblical truth and the historic witness of the Church.

Here is the best book on Judaism for educating people about the hidden side of this much glorified, but soul-destroying religion of warfare and deception. Hoffman deconstructs the facade of Judaism in clear and understandable writing, and does so charitably and without vitriol.

.......

choose any number of objective sources.
course, you'd have to be freed from the myth that the romans or constantine or luther or early goy believers messed everything up and God's plan is out of control.

A little known book (but great read) along the same line is ''The Mystery: A Lost Key'' by Marvin Byers.

crossnote · Jun 4, 2013

By the way most Christendom carries itself today and Judaism, I would say Jesus would be neither.

David_1 · Jun 4, 2013

Imagine, if Christianity was completely separate from what the Empire (USA) dictates.

Oh wait. It is, and always has been separate.

No, Jews have a different religion. One that has many developments after they killed the Messiah.

It's 2013, let's drop the Chosen master Jewish race rubbish please.

Jesus is the saviour to all and is the only way to salvation.

zone · Jun 4, 2013

crossnote said:

outstanding. thank you.
of course, as is the case today with anything written by jewish believers that says these things, this book is out of print, or there are no readily available reviews (and i saw one link warning publishers against publishing this author!)

but i did find this...where Byers is quoted with permission.

Christians and the law of Moses
Part 1
Jim Bramlett

Christians and the law of Moses < click

saving.
thanks crossnote.
i hope everyone reads this little bit, even.

unity can come from knowing this! how can we not know this??

look how far some have fallen from truth!
the very thing we were warned of! the leaven of the Pharisees.
tsk.

zone

psalm6819 · Jun 4, 2013

zone said:

They have Jesus in common-He was Jewish. He was not accepted by the " religious establishment" so caught up in traditions, rules and regulations that they didn't see the fulfillment of prophecy, The Messiah, Jesus when He was right in front of them. Jesus was radical and went about doing good, loving, healing, blessing, teaching before He died for us.

When people refer to themselves as Messianic Jews, it just means they are Jews that realize He is fulfillment of prophecy.
Messiah means annointed one, the greek is khristos, anglicized is Christ. Jesus condemned the hypocrites, not the traditions which were a foreshadowing of His Life and Death.

If Jesus showed up today I wonder how many churches He get thrown out of.

zone · Jun 4, 2013

psalm6819 said:

uh...Jesus condemned the oral Traditions from Babylon which nullified the Word of God.
until it became fashionable in the 1980s, jews who recognized Christ identified as Christians.

i recommend reading this (crossnote posted the book title) to understand where this is all going:

"....Some Messianic Jewish circles either embrace or are dangerously close to this unscriptural view.

This message is Part I on this subject, and I have permission to quote from Pastor/author Marvin Byers’ new book, The Mystery: a Lost Key, about Israel and the Gentile church, "a life and death issue for all believers,"....

Christians and the law of Moses < click

seriously, imo the Book of Galatians is the key.
and is the death knell for this 4th modern assault on the church.

it's the remedy for nearly every heresy forcing it's way onto the stage today.
it does away with all the gap theories and lets us know (in what should be hair-raising warnings) how far wrong we are if we haven't understood chapter 4.

...

as for Christianity and Judaism having Jesus in common...that's true.
one faith/religion exists because the believers love and believe on Him.
the other exists (post 70ad) as a reaction to Christianity, and hates Jesus...intensely.

presidente · Jun 5, 2013

Jesus is not a Christian. Jesus is the Christ.

He's also Jewish.

psalm6819 · Jun 5, 2013

zone said:

I've watched a show called "Discovering the Jewish Jesus" for about 5 years. I've never seen anything that did not line up with scripture. The purpose of the show is to inform of how the Old Testament and New Testament complement each other. Some use the phrase "The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed."

Would you reference the scripture with regard to Jesus condemning oral trafitions from Babylon? My voice is gentle, it's difficult sometimes on paper to ask a question that doesn't sound like an accusation hurled.

BTW I loved "Tapestry" whoops, my age is showing

4enlightment · Jun 5, 2013

psalm6819 said:

The old testament was the physical concept of what was done in the spiritual realm, and which Jesus was teaching in the spiritual nature of the old testament.

John 3:5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. (Water represent the physical birth, and the spirit represent the spiritual birth.)

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
(This verse is saying that the physical nature doesn't benefited nothing, but the spiritual nature does and which the spiritual Baptism is the true Baptism.)

Matthew 26:41“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Is Jesus a Christian?

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